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Camper Choices

whitexc said:
I share ownership(with the bank) of a GD as well and use similar terminology quite frequently in regards to it. The “lower grade” unit I traded in was much better built in every aspect, just didn’t have the most favorable layout.
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I've owned the GD for 5 years, I can tell all of you from first-hand experience and having owned at least 4 different makes of campers over the years (Layton, Rockwood, two Jaycos, and now this GD), the GD has been the worst of all of them. It was also by far the most expensive. Grand Design maybe, and comes with a Grand Price, but sure as hell not a Grand Build.
 
ErikTheRed said:
I've owned the GD for 5 years, I can tell all of you from first-hand experience and having owned at least 4 different makes of campers over the years (Layton, Rockwood, two Jaycos, and now this GD), the GD has been the worst of all of them. It was also by far the most expensive. Grand Design maybe, and comes with a Grand Price, but sure as hell not a Grand Build.
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I couldn’t agree more. This is my first GD. I’ve had 2 Forest River products previously and both were so much better build quality wise. We outgrew them and liked the layout of the GD. I don’t even like that any more lol. I’d honestly ditch the 5th wheel, as decent as it tows, and go back to a nice TT in a heartbeat. It may happen some time next year.


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I agree to an extent, there are some brands that build better than others…. I’ve done enough boondocking repairs on cheap trailers (usually not mine) to know what to stay away from…. Historically GD wasn’t a brand to avoid, neither was ORV or Jayco.

I wonder when the change occurred, but I’m guessing around COVID.

For multiple reasons you likely won’t see me own anything but a Jayco or an ORV, but neither of them is what they used to be.

This discussion is one of several reasons we’re doing a DIY van build over buying a built out one.
 
If you aren’t able to fix the issues that arise with any camper you won’t be happy. Maybe a tent would work? Any camper is going to need repairs eventually. My experience has been that peeps who disregard common sense while towing have more problems. YMMV
 
It’s like a boat, the 2 happiest days are when you sign the papers to buy it followed by the day you sign the papers to sell it.

We have a 27’ TT made by heartland, 17 build. It’s been okayish. Typical need to maintain the roof seams, couple minor plumbing leaks, replace junk peeling fake leather sofa, junk china tires, another couple odds and ends along the way. It’s fun while we’re out making memories with it though!
 
Im a fairly handy fella, I can fix most camper stuff. And believe me, I have to fix plenty on this crappy GD. My complaints aren't about "its a trailer and repairs will need to be made", thats a no-brainer. My complaints are about the overall build quality and materials used from the factory, and as a result of THAT, and not from use, the sheer number of constant repairs just to try and get it to where it should have been before it ever rolled off the lot. Of course actually using the trailer will cause some issues too, and thats the expected maintenance part of RV ownership. Use and age. But when its BRAND NEW and in its first year is when you expect it to be at its best, and thats exactly when it was most obvious that the GD was and is terribly built with embarrassingly cheap components. Thats also when we learned that the "service department" is a waste of everyone's time and money. Just one example, GD plumbed the entire trailer with cheap no-name flexible hose water lines, but used all PEX fittings. Uh, not compatible. They aren't even sized the same (hose ID is too large for the fitting OD, and they "rely" on the cinch clamp to try and make up the gap.) Only PEX (or PEX-type) lines can be used with PEX fittings and clamps. Flexible hose needs barbed fittings. Guaranteed water leaks galore. And they KNEW IT, but did it anyway. Thousands of trailers left the factory like that, right through their "101-point final inspection process" or whatever nonsense marketing gobbliddygook they call it. They use all the same chassis, frame, components, appliances, hardware, cheap tires, building techniques as everyone else (Lippert has a monopoly on the RV industry) but somehow this is "better built" and worth thousands more? How? Where? I learned the hard and expensive way that its all a sham. My advice is to pick an RV based on price, size, floorplan, and features and pay NO MIND to claims of "ours is built better". Go into it with the understanding that no matter which one you choose, you're gonna need to keep the toolbox handy at all times and prepare for frustration and disappointment with your purchase. They ALL suck so save as much money as you can.... you're gonna need it.

So why am I so hard on GD el-cheapo crap build quality but then also claim they're ALL the same? Because I got suckered into believing that GD was actually better than the rest, and I shelled out for it. That was a mistake. Its not better, its the same. My goal now is to do what I can to make sure others don't get screwed like I did-- not by telling people not to buy a GD, but by just letting people know that if you pony up for the GD because you want a better built unit, well, don't. There is NO reason for it. The market is full of less expensive options that are built exactly the same.
 
I do buy based on price, floor plan, size and my own inspection. I never have believed it when a manufacturer claims theirs is the better product. If you did that’s your problem. Just sell it and move on. Even a 500k diesel class A motor home will have problems. You aren’t going to be happy with any RV. SMH
 
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ErikTheRed said:
ALL campers these days are overpriced junk. ALL of them. Sure, some might have more problems than others, but thats like saying a cow's ass is just a little less sh***y than a pig's. We did a TON of research before we landed on the GD in 2020, and we paid quite a scosch extra for it thinking we were buying something better. WRONG! Its a pile. My brother's 18-yr-old Weekend Warrior has fewer problems. My bro-in-law has a cheapo Attitude trailer and his has been pretty good too (compared). Good friend has a Sandstorm (Forest River) with some problems but nothing like our crappy GD. Everyone we know who has a camp trailer has problems, but nothing like the experience that we've had with this thing. The lesson? They're all built like caca with the cheapest crap they can find and literally ZERO quality control. So when you buy one, buy on price only-- don't get fooled into believing that if you pay more, you'll get more. You won't. The only thing you "get" is ripped off even worse.


100% correct, and most of those repairs will be fixing stuff that the manufacturer screwed up from the very start. And DO NOT think your dealership service department is going to fix anything, likely they'll just make it worse. They don't hire mechanics or technicians, they hire dirty rednecks with a Harbor Freight tool kit (takes one to know one).
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What have you got against dirty rednecks?
 
Ritchie_Rich said:
I never have believed it when a manufacturer claims theirs is the better product. If you did that’s your problem.
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Yes, I suppose thats true, it is my problem. Its my own reading and research that led me to believe I was buying something better, not some smarmy salesperson who smells like smoke and scrambled eggs. Like AH64ID mentioned, I think something happened during and after the covid sham. I think there was more of a quality difference between the brands before covid, because ever since then (to a greater degree than before) everything is built nearly identical-- trash. Brand doesn't matter anymore. I bought the GD at the end of 2020 so it was built during the covid hullabaloo. I'd say that was the issue except they haven't improved since. I think they learned during covid that they can spit out a trash product built with trash parts and zero quality control and still turn huge profits.... or actually even BIGGER profits.
 
At the moment, I am thinking about buying a horse trailer and converting it. Just an idea so far, but potentially tougher.

There are some suspension options out there for trailers to help reduce impact forces on trailers.
 
HarryN said:
There are some suspension options out there for trailers to help reduce impact forces on trailers.
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The Dexter EX-Flex is the equalizer to install on a trailer for reducing impact forces, hands down the best option. Unlike the more OE utilized Mor/Ryde the Dexter lets each axle flex independently.

On our last TT I installed the EZ-Flex and Centramaic wheel balancers at the same time. The very first camping trip after those mods the wife asked what I did to the trailer because it was more comfortable from the passenger seat, way less jerking and jerking of the pickup. Things in the camper stay put now, like a cup on the counter will still be there if you forget to move it.

I’ve since installed the kit on 2 other trailers with the same results. The only thing I do differently than the instructions is install the wet bolts with the zerks facing inwards so they are easier to get the grease gun on.
 
ErikTheRed said:
Just one example, GD plumbed the entire trailer with cheap no-name flexible hose water lines, but used all PEX fittings. Uh, not compatible.
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Our 2020 Jayco Eagle likewise, used flex on pex. I think there were ten sections in the entire trailer. Four of them failed on one cool weekend, fall 2024. It works until the flex gradually compresses and looses force on the fitting. We were fortunate to discover before damage done. I got it down to one, which is on the suction side of the water pump, unlikely to ever leak. I can see why they use it, as it lets them be sloppy during the build when making connections but I was able to replace it all using pex, with some short sections of Pex A where I needed tight bends.

The real pain was that some of the fittings were buried. It would've been easy when the camper was built to do it right, but near impossible on some items after the fact and guaranteed to eventually damage the camper if not caught. In the end I only had to create one access opening in a wall and it's not visible during normal use. I did have to buy a short handled ratcheting pex crimper to get into some tight cabinets, it was not fun. It was an opportunity to install lots of stop valves and convert to typical residential style braided faucet hoses in most places where flex was warranted. Upgraded thermostatic shower valve, delta faucets from the home supply thrift store, etc.

Both that and the Goodyear Endurances probably would've failed earlier if the camper had seen much use by the initial owner. Both of those resolved the camper has been pretty good.
 
Very very few manufacturers are doing plumping right and I'd wager 90% of buyers have no idea what they are looking at when they are shopping for an RV it's all about monthly payment and looks. For anyone with an RV I'd recommend tackling your fittings sooner rather than later. I've got about half mine done and the rest will be this spring when I drop my underbelly to 100% validate all the plumbing connections in the rig.

 
All good points. The plumbing and wiring in these units is atrocious.

Using a “quality” pressure regulator (&filter) at the water inlet is something many over look as well. While not the answer to most leaks it’s always a good idea to monitor and control what comes in.


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whitexc said:
Using a “quality” pressure regulator (&filter) at the water inlet is something many over look as well. While not the answer to most leaks it’s always a good idea to monitor and control what comes in.
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I use a regulator but I hate it. It's one of the nicer ones marketed in RV space but it's extremely flow limiting.

You set it at 45 psi in the campground and the thing drops to 20 psi as soon as you turn on a 2gpm faucet. I'd rather the RV plumbing not be hot garbage. Pressure at my house is 80 psi and I'm not loosing sleep over leaky pex B fittings even with my garbage clamp tool. 80 psi in the campground should not be a concern. RV life is full of nickel and dime $30 solutions to something that shouldn't be a problem and generally it creates another problem. I camp because I want less crap to keep track of.

One note, you should install a $30 shurflo accumulator tank even if you never run on pump for the same reason houses are required to have an accumulator tank if you have a regulator on the main supply line. RVs are check valved at the water inlet, and a regulator functions as a second check valve. When the water heater recovers if you're not in the camper using water, pressures will go through the roof until the TP valve limit. Take a shower and then go on a hike? Your camper is sitting at 100 psi until you get back and flush.
 
I don’t know what regulator you’re using but mine doesn’t act like a check valve.
 
In 2018, we bought a pre covid 2017 Jayco Whitehawk 30' TT, with intention to stay in part time for work out of town, with the end run being wife's and mine retirement rig.
I always thought Jayco was a premium brand, liked the layout, so we jumped in at Camping World(first problem of many).
Long and short is; we have replaced about every appliance multiple times, I found and worked on plumbing leaks all over, poor electrical connections - issues.
Roof leaked(we coated with Tropicool to stop). Slide outs were a disaster. Leaks, wet carpet, trim and floors( we're about to spend 3-4k$ to replace slide out floors and seals). I think we are getting ahead of problems now.
Too much invested coming on retirement, too dump it and buy another.
I bought this thing new then parked it, semi living in it by myself at work.
Big mistake with slide outs left out, in Oregon winters. A $ 2500 canopy would have paid for itself. Kick myself now...
I got to know the mobile repair guys personally, and they all said no brand - manufacturer is better than any other.
" Jayco is one of the better"..BS
Budget repair - maintenance $ when you buy one..
 
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Ritchie_Rich said:
I don’t know what regulator you’re using but mine doesn’t act like a check valve.
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That's great...generally regulators do...but often the inlet port of the camper has a check valve in it else the water pump would just blow water out the inlet when you run on tank. The inlet check valve would prevent you from ever seeing pressure rise due to the water heater on your regulator's gauge and will cause the water heater related pressure spikes I cited.
 
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