Buy 3500 Only for the HO Cummins?

[DougB]

My mistake my 2500 cclb cummins is good for 2300 still plenty good enough for a slide in camper and all gear/fuel besides how often does he plan on having that camper in the bed....

The config makes a big difference from the brochure values. There is a towing/payload checker on the Ram trucks website. Enter any 2009+ VIN and you’ll see just how low a 2500 diesel can go. I was looking at a loaded 2020 2500 6.7 MC 4wd Laramie. Its payload was around 1775lbs. My 14 year old 2006 2500 MC 2wd 5.9 door sticker is 2150Lbs. All those bells and whistles and 4wd eat up that payload. I’m going 3500 for that reason as I’d like to tow a gooseneck a couple times a year and maybe a 5th wheel down the road. Figure the new 3500 can’t ride much worse than my leaf spring 2006. I need to take one for a test drive though.

 

[Brutal_HO]

The config makes a big difference from the brochure values. There is a towing/payload checker on the Ram trucks website. Enter any 2009+ VIN and you’ll see just how low a 2500 diesel can go. I was looking at a loaded 2020 2500 6.7 MC 4wd Laramie. Its payload was around 1775lbs. My 14 year old 2006 2500 MC 2wd 5.9 door sticker is 2150Lbs. All those bells and whistles and 4wd eat up that payload. I’m going 3500 for that reason as I’d like to tow a gooseneck a couple times a year and maybe a 5th wheel down the road. Figure the new 3500 can’t ride much worse than my leaf spring 2006. I need to take one for a test drive though.

My new truck rides significantly better than my 04.5 2500.

 

[RTillery]

My 04 2500 did me well for 480,000 miles. Towed my 7000 lb trailer and got 19-20 miles to the gallon empty running around the Rocky Mountains in my sales job. I sold it to a friend in New York and it is still going strong. When I decided on a new truck, I wanted it to possibly be my last/greatest truck so I got everything on it I could think of. It is a loaded 3500 Bighorn HO with the factory air ride. I wanted the most durable setup I could order and poured over every item, ad nauseum. I have 39,000 miles on it and couldn't be much happier. After rowing the NV5600 tranny all those miles, I decided on going automatic and opted for the extra dough an the Aisin and HO combo. I was worried about the harsh ride as much of my driving is empty but that concern has left the building. Empty, I run 60 lbs in the front and 50 lbs in the back tires and I have to say the ride is very similar if not slightly better than my old 2500.
I'm happy with the Aisin and maintenance isn't much of a concern. There is a drain plug on the pan and Mobil tranny oil is available for less than $5 a quart. The HO engine pulls strong, tranny shifts fine, big rear end on leaf springs and air pulls my trailer so well, I have to look back to make sure it is still there. No regrets spending the extra money and getting the 3500.

 

[DougB]

My new truck rides significantly better than my 04.5 2500.

That’s great to hear. Getting a better ride and nearly double the capacity is a win-win. My fingers are crossed they add UConnect 5 to the HDs sooner than later. I’m holding out to late 2021 or 2022 for that and anything else they want to toss in... HUD, MFT, etc.

 

[DougB]

My 04 2500 did me well for 480,000 miles. Towed my 7000 lb trailer and got 19-20 miles to the gallon empty running around the Rocky Mountains in my sales job. I sold it to a friend in New York and it is still going strong. When I decided on a new truck, I wanted it to possibly be my last/greatest truck so I got everything on it I could think of. It is a loaded 3500 Bighorn HO with the factory air ride. I wanted the most durable setup I could order and poured over every item, ad nauseum. I have 39,000 miles on it and couldn't be much happier. After rowing the NV5600 tranny all those miles, I decided on going automatic and opted for the extra dough an the Aisin and HO combo. I was worried about the harsh ride as much of my driving is empty but that concern has left the building. Empty, I run 60 lbs in the front and 50 lbs in the back tires and I have to say the ride is very similar if not slightly better than my old 2500.
I'm happy with the Aisin and maintenance isn't much of a concern. There is a drain plug on the pan and Mobil tranny oil is available for less than $5 a quart. The HO engine pulls strong, tranny shifts fine, big rear end on leaf springs and air pulls my trailer so well, I have to look back to make sure it is still there. No regrets spending the extra money and getting the 3500.

Your situation sounds like mine. I was thinking HO and Aisin but the 98% daily driver duty has me thinking SO and 68RFE simply for smoother shifting. I won’t ever need the tow capacity of the HO/Aisin combo but do I want it just because the Aisin is nearly bullet proof? I’ve got time to keep reading opinions and looking for rigs to test drive. Thanks for the input.

 

[RTillery]

I've read several post about the Aisin shifting, but coming from the old NV5600 shifting like a big rig, I have no issues with the gear changes of the Aisin. My buddy has a 2016 with the 68 and the flare between shifts, and the service life/issues had me opting for the bigger, heavier tranny. I know both trannys have been upgraded since then and the more frequent service is not an issue. I tend to over-change fluids anyway and believe that was why my old truck was so durable. I'm too old to hot-rod much anymore (isin't a 1000 ft. lbs enough?) so reliability and long life are my main concerns. I also like the idea of being able to hook up to just about anything and know "Mighty-Whitey II" can get the job done.

 

[AEV_CUMMINS]

That’s great to hear. Getting a better ride and nearly double the capacity is a win-win. My fingers are crossed they add UConnect 5 to the HDs sooner than later. I’m holding out to late 2021 or 2022 for that and anything else they want to toss in... HUD, MFT, etc.

I too have been waiting to order for a couple more updates.. I think my wait is over and cannot help myself anymore because of the 2021 having the 30 extra ponies and 75 extra stump pulling power. On top of that.. my greatest worry/decision was on the transmission shifting reviews I have read.. On top of the increased power, Ram also specifically said in the update that the 2021 AISIN has been upgraded for smoother shifting, durability and reduced harshness. So looks like they heard and at the minimum made a good update for us. I will wait until a decent sized rebate comes out and then start my AEV build =). Only thing is that with the update.. I am hoping that the folks who are going to do my ''bulletproofing'' to the truck are able to get new tunes available before the truck has to breathe too much of its own soot back in.

 

[Deleted member 80]

FYI Ram also said the Aisin was updated, and had an all new controller with twice the processing power for the 2019 rollout.

 

[DougB]

Thanks both for the info.

 

[SgnDen]

Excellent discussion and info as I read along. Thanks!

Is there anything to the notion that the leaf springs will have more yaw (side to side) than the coils with a trailer towed load? I think a lot of that sort of matter are in the department of "if you look hard enough, you'll find something to call out as 'bad' but I could be wrong."

 

[Deleted member 80]

Excellent discussion and info as I read along. Thanks!

Is there anything to the notion that the leaf springs will have more yaw (side to side) than the coils with a trailer towed load? I think a lot of that sort of matter are in the department of "if you look hard enough, you'll find something to call out as 'bad' but I could be wrong."

Leaf springs are placed further outboard, and are MORE stable when pulling, and are notably better for high center of gravity loads, like heavy slide-in campers, etc.

 

[SgnDen]

Leaf springs are placed further outboard, and are MORE stable when pulling, and are notably better for high center of gravity loads, like heavy slide-in campers, etc.

This is the camper: http://rockymountainfourwheelcampers.com/campers/full-size-campers/hawk/

SPECIFICATIONS:​

Dry Weight: 1075lbs
Height Down (including vent): 59″ (most trucks)
Roof Length: 144″
Floor Length: 96″
Body Width: 80″
Adult Sleeping: 3-4
Extended Interior Height: 6’6″
Roof/Wall Framing: Aluminum
Exterior Material: Aluminum (Fiberglass Siding Available)
Fresh Water Capacity: Up to 26 Gallons
Propane: 2 – 10lb Bottles
Insulation: Rigid Foam in Walls and Roof

Easily handled by the 2500, it appears. Maybe still worth 1 ton for "future proofing".

 

[SgnDen]

Leaf springs are placed further outboard, and are MORE stable when pulling, and are notably better for high center of gravity loads, like heavy slide-in campers, etc.

Yeah, this poor sales guy was talking about a towing 'contest' going through a pylon course...not exactly real world...but was all excited that the coils controlled yaw better. Whatever kid. haha. The best was having him actually want to debate whether or not the 3500 had leaf springs up FRONT...now that was fun.

 

[cummins2020]

Excellent discussion and info as I read along. Thanks!

Is there anything to the notion that the leaf springs will have more yaw (side to side) than the coils with a trailer towed load? I think a lot of that sort of matter are in the department of "if you look hard enough, you'll find something to call out as 'bad' but I could be wrong."

Leafs have much less side to side...that is why 2500s have a sway bar with the coils!!!

 

[Brutal_HO]

For the 2500 I think it's more about the lateral shift introduced by the design of the short and sharply angled panhard bar as the rear axle moves up and down. Reason the aftermarket makes longer and relocated bars.

There's another thread here about the (Thuren?) bar that reports to control some of that loose in the rear feel.

Leafs will flex side to side some, I just think you won't see it or feel it as much as coils with an angled panhard.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Leafs have much less side to side...that is why 2500s have a sway bar with the coils!!!

Being pedantic, the sway bar controls roll. The panhard bar on the 2500 locates the axle to prevent the side-side movement (though it does so poorly).

 

[SgnDen]

So educational. Thanks!!

Hey, if I plan on outfitting with Carli suspension for off road, is there anything the leafs inhibit? I’ll ask the CJC Off-road guys to be sure but can’t imagine since it all gets upgraded.

The 3500 can’t be ordered with the “off road” package so I’d need skid plates and don’t really care much about the “hill decent control”...that’s another topic of course.


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