Axle Ratings

[H3LZSN1P3R]

The other parts of the story are the engine, transmission, springs, control arms, bushings, seals, brakes, tires, drive shafts, linkages, etc, etc, etc. All of the parts of the truck work together. The limiting factor is not the most robust piece of equipment, but the weakest one.

Edit to add: It's your truck, do what you want. Just let me know when you are rolling overloaded through North Texas so I can stay off the roads.

The 3500 SO runs the same setup only difference is leaf springs but is rated higher…. And obviously axle weight limits are due to springs because everything else is the same, payload is just for registration purposes

 

[CG_CWO4_Ret]

OK

 

[UglyViking]

The other parts of the story are the engine, transmission, springs, control arms, bushings, seals, brakes, tires, drive shafts, linkages, etc, etc, etc. All of the parts of the truck work together. The limiting factor is not the most robust piece of equipment, but the weakest one.

Edit to add: It's your truck, do what you want. Just let me know when you are rolling overloaded through North Texas so I can stay off the roads.

Just wanted to clarify one thing. The GAWRs on the truck, per the sticker, are including axle, springs, brakes, tires, wheels, etc. As @H3LZSN1P3R mentioned above AAM rates the axles are rated substantially higher from AAM.

Everything is identical between the 2500 and 3500 with the exception of the leaf vs coil springs. So same engine, trans, bushings, seals, drive shaft, etc. I won't get into if you shouldn't or should go by the GAWR vs the GVWR, just wanted to clarify that the trucks are literally identical outside the coil spring + 4 link vs leafs.

 

[CG_CWO4_Ret]

Just wanted to clarify one thing. The GAWRs on the truck, per the sticker, are including axle, springs, brakes, tires, wheels, etc. As @H3LZSN1P3R mentioned above AAM rates the axles are rated substantially higher from AAM.

Everything is identical between the 2500 and 3500 with the exception of the leaf vs coil springs. So same engine, trans, bushings, seals, drive shaft, etc. I won't get into if you shouldn't or should go by the GAWR vs the GVWR, just wanted to clarify that the trucks are literally identical outside the coil spring + 4 link vs leafs.

I'm not going to argue. I go by the sticker. If I wanted or needed more capacity I would buy a 3500 or a 3500 DRW.
I am not an engineer, I am not a mechanic nor have I ever claimed to be.
It is your truck do what you want.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I'm not going to argue. I go by the sticker. If I wanted or needed more capacity I would buy a 3500 or a 3500 DRW.
I am not an engineer, I am not a mechanic nor have I ever claimed to be.
It is your truck do what you want.

There are 2 stickers with 2 different ratings on all the 2500s one says 10k max (registration max) and a 12k combined axle rating

 

[CG_CWO4_Ret]

There are 2 stickers with 2 different ratings on all the 2500s one says 10k max (registration max) and a 12k combined axle rating

OK. Once again, not arguing. I will never convince you that you are doing it wrong. And you will never convince me that it is OK to exceed GVWR.

 

[UglyViking]

I'm not going to argue. I go by the sticker. If I wanted or needed more capacity I would buy a 3500 or a 3500 DRW.
I am not an engineer, I am not a mechanic nor have I ever claimed to be.
It is your truck do what you want.

I am not attempting to argue, I'm attempting to discuss. You had pointed out there is more to GAWR than axle, I asked what it was which you presented a bunch of items. I then clarified that those items are identical across the trucks and that things like springs, shocks, wheels, tires and axle.

I'm not trying to change your mind, there are a lot of guys that refuse to go over, and there is nothing wrong with that, safe even. There are guys on the other end of the spectrum that go far beyond the GAWRs, which I'd argue is not safe.

I just thought perhaps you knew something I did not, and that does not seem to be the case here. It's simply a difference in risk tolerance and how we choose to read the data.

 

[CG_CWO4_Ret]

I am not attempting to argue, I'm attempting to discuss. You had pointed out there is more to GAWR than axle, I asked what it was which you presented a bunch of items. I then clarified that those items are identical across the trucks and that things like springs, shocks, wheels, tires and axle.

I'm not trying to change your mind, there are a lot of guys that refuse to go over, and there is nothing wrong with that, safe even. There are guys on the other end of the spectrum that go far beyond the GAWRs, which I'd argue is not safe.

I just thought perhaps you knew something I did not, and that does not seem to be the case here. It's simply a difference in risk tolerance and how we choose to read the data.

No problem. Discussions are great and all parties that are willing to can learn from them.
I'm one of the risk averse crowd. Unless there is a compelling reason to exceed GVWR and I feel the reason is worth the risk, I won't do it. The list of items I typed was a stand in for everything in, on and under the truck. All the parts of the system go to make it work and focusing on only one or two parts of a complex system is a disservice and is being myopic.

I have not seen or even looked for an authoritative source that all the parts, except the rear springs, are identical between a 2500 and 3500. If they are great, that does not change the GVWR on the sticker. Nor does it change how I approach the limits of my truck.

 

[Billcf7]

To ad my 2 cents. The difference is only to put the trucks in 2 different classes for registration purposes.

Class 2b

Light duty

8,501–10,000 pounds (3,856–4,536 kg)

Class 3

Medium duty

10,001–14,000 pounds (4,536–6,350 kg)

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

OK. Once again, not arguing. I will never convince you that you are doing it wrong. And you will never convince me that it is OK to exceed GVWR.

Actually i am doing it right and legal as they go by axle weights here not GVWR the way it should be done because registration weights mean nothing

 

[Brutal_HO]

Go ahead and load er up.

 

[UglyViking]

Go ahead and load er up.

View attachment 33958

I'll just call out they are both duallys

 

[I Love Grits]

Go ahead and load er up.

Wait… This one is one of those revered 3500s that I thought could handle anything!

It’s almost like you should use your brain and understand what your equipment is capable of regardless of what sticker is in the door jamb or on the side of the fender.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Wait… This one is one of those revered 3500s that I thought could handle anything!

It’s almost like you should use your brain and understand what your equipment is capable of regardless of what sticker is in the door jamb or on the side of the fender.

That was @H3LZSN1P3R last RAM. He got the mighty mighty 2500 to replace it.

(I notice he recently added air springs...) But hey, let's keep telling people to overload their trucks.

FWIW, I ran an overloaded 2500 with air springs for years and will never do it again. Too sketchy and prematurely wore out parts.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

That was @H3LZSN1P3R last RAM. He got the mighty mighty 2500 to replace it.

(I notice he recently added air springs...) But hey, let's keep telling people to overload their trucks.

FWIW, I ran an overloaded 2500 with air springs for years and will never do it again. Too sketchy and prematurely wore out parts.

Bags are only for stability as the coils are too inboard i have not overloaded my truck past the AXLE WEIGHTS which are a legal limit the payload is not a legal limit here…

 

[UglyViking]

I always love how these conversations boil down to this. Guy A says that the payload is a registration restriction and points to all the reasons. Guy B says that going over payload/GVWR is unsafe. This goes back and forth a bit until guy B finally makes some insane claim about towing the spaceshuttle as their trailer or putting a Cat 785 in tow.

If you have to use extreme examples (the straw man fallacy) then the argument probably doesn't stand well on it's own.

Just so it's clear where I'm coming from. I think that payload is restricted to 10k solely due to truck class. I have absolutely no concerns about going over payload. I would never exceed my axle ratings, and if I did it wouldn't be for far/long and not by much.

Your risk tolerance may be different. You may be terrified of towing even within 10% of your payload, and that's totally fine! I don't think I've seen anyone claiming you should go over your GAWRs though.

 

[Sapper-8]

Thanks for all of the great information and differences in GAWRs & GVWR when it comes to towing. I am new to towing a RV and I am trying to do it as safely as I can. Also, with the price of diesel, I am trying to haul the weight and hopefully save on the cost of fuel. My plan is to drive at 65-70 mph, auto exhaust break and lock out 6 gear when I hit the elevation areas. I will continue to stay within the 10,000 lb GVWR, but I have spoken to many who say you need to leave an allowance for safety, 25% of GVWR. I have never read that anywhere in my vehicle information book. I would think that 10,000 GVWR is the limit used for safety and you would be able have the loaded weight up to 10,000 GVWR without a problem.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Thanks for all of the great information and differences in GAWRs & GVWR when it comes to towing. I am new to towing a RV and I am trying to do it as safely as I can. Also, with the price of diesel, I am trying to haul the weight and hopefully save on the cost of fuel. My plan is to drive at 65-70 mph, auto exhaust break and lock out 6 gear when I hit the elevation areas. I will continue to stay within the 10,000 lb GVWR, but I have spoken to many who say you need to leave an allowance for safety, 25% of GVWR. I have never read that anywhere in my vehicle information book. I would think that 10,000 GVWR is the limit used for safety and you would be able have the loaded weight up to 10,000 GVWR without a problem.

Even at the 6k axle weights they have a safety factor built in so you do not need to worry about a safety factor especially because at 25% of the 10k would mean the truck empty would be over that

 

[Blythkd1]

Gotta love the drama queens, or kings, with the "let me know when you'll be running overloaded in my area so I can stay off the roads." One in every crowd, or forum Those folks better just stay off the roads because I can spot trucks on the road all day long every day that are "overloaded" per the placards. Take any 2500 with a service bed on it loaded down with tools and equipment. Even the HD van that pulled in to work on my heat pump the other day. When he opened the back door and I saw inside, I could see why his van was squatting. It's everywhere, yet there's always someone trying to shame someone else if they even consider loading over the placard rating. It's more of a mfr suggestion than it is law. And for the first one that challenges this, please list the statute, section, sub-section, etc. I've called our state DOT, they could care less about the mfr's placard. They will however burn you on tire weight ratings.

I've grown up and spent most of my life around farm and construction and the GVWR thing has never been much of a thing. Ran plenty of C60/C65 Chevy dump trucks that had 23,160 GVW on the door jamb, had a 30,000# tag on them, loaded to 30,000# and been through DOT roadside inspections and scales, no problems. In fact, every straight truck with a 10ft bed I've ever seen, pretty much hauls the same loads. I've hauled many heavy loads on a flatbed behind an '84 Chevy C30 with a 30,000# tag. Seen similar done plenty with 2500's and 3500's too with nary a breakdown or failure, and that's across many, many vehicles across several decades now. So does the guy that "overloads" his pickup by a few pounds, or a few hundred pounds, really need to be shamed by suggesting he's putting everyone else in jeopardy or he's going to tear up his truck?

I've towed with a pickup, a lot. I've hung a DOT number on my door for a very large company that's paid multiple settlements, at least a couple in the 8 figure range. Needless to say, safety and compliance folks were serious about what they were doing. Anyone want to guess what the requirements are to put a 26k tag on your truck and haul the biggest new RV's down the highway? A truck with a 16k tow rating? 4k GVW rating? 26k GCWR? Nope. All you have to have is a pickup with 8 bolt wheels and 10 ply tires and 26k registration. I had a dually but I've seen guys with 2500's and 3500's pull the biggest, baddest RV's all over the nation, rolling across scales, passing DOT inspections, etc. I couldn't pull a big 5er occasionally due to weight. I was about 10,500 with a full fuel load. If I were to hook onto a 16,000# RV, I'd really have to watch my fuel to stay under 26,000. So what did the company do? Sent it with a SRW truck since they were lighter and could tow more while staying under 26,000#. You think those trucks were within their placard ratings with those big heavy 5er's? As narrow-minded as many state DOT guys are, I wonder why they don't write those guys up and put them out of service when they "catch" them hauling so heavy?

I know I wasted my time here and there'll be plenty of dissent. I just like to state some reality now and then in an attempt to temper all the drama regarding GVWR's. And there's nothing that pisses of the drama queens more than stating some reality

 

[UglyViking]

I always say that with the rate tickets are handed out for everything, and the fact that information is so widely available online, you'd assume that you would see a ton of guys posting on FB, forums, etc. about how they got tagged for being over. I don't think I've ever seen a post about someone being ticketed, towed, civilly sued, or losing insurance/license for towing over. I have seen reports of events happening, but it's usually due to a large number of factors, not a single item.

Again, it all comes down to risk tolerance per individual. That said, while I don't know the numbers I can all but guarantee that your risk of being killed by someone towing/overloaded are orders of magnitude lower than being killed by a drunk driver. That is not to say that I encourage drunk driving, but that it happens every day so if you're focused on risk you probably shouldn't drive at night, early in the morning, or on the weekends after 12:00pm…