Atl-atl's 2024 Tradesman 2500 Power Wagon "documentation" thread, now on 40s!!

[Atl-atl]

Im ecstatic about being back in a Ram. Ever since I sold my 2008 regular cab on 37s Ive wanted a Power Wagon. I finally got one. Picked up this truck about a month ago. Billet Silver Tradesman Power Wagon. I live in Arizona so I snagged it from Bill Luke CDJR for about $14,000 off MSRP. I have big plans for this one so stay tuned. Full Thuren, 40s, hydro assist, gears, trimming etc. It will be a "daily driver" of sorts but only because my other two trucks are a little ridiculous to drive daily. I do all my own work with the exception of gears so Ill be on the lookout for that if anyone has a recommendation for a shop in Arizona that knows what it takes to get 5.13s into a power wagon Id love a recommendation. Updates will start coming hot and heavy because I have almost all of the parts for the build in my possession already.



Here is my old third gen that I still miss. Best truck Ive ever owned.


Here is an indication of how I will be treating the Power Wagon

Here are my other offroading rigs. The wife and I are cyclists so most things in this house are built around getting places with our bikes to go ride. Last year we did all 48 states in our Class C. Its a Thor Majestic 19G retired Cruise America rental that I remodeled and converted to 4x4 using a UJoint Offroad kit. Ford E350 gas V10. Its on 35s and its only about 20 feet long so it still fits in a normal parking space. Possibly the most capable house on wheels that one can buy/build. I did all the work on this one in the driveway because I didnt have a garage it would fit inside of hahaha. Its 11'6" tall. These days I have a shop with a 12' door and I couldnt be happier about it.


The other rig is my 1978 Chevy Blazer with matching Four Wheel Campers "Blazer" camper that I have mechanically restored but left original inside. Truck has an LM7, NV4500, NP241C, full ORD suspension, custom bumpers and all sorts of other things done by yours truly.



I occasionally flat tow it behind the RV which is quite a ridiculous site to behold. Cant pass a gas station if my life depended on it. I will tow the Blazer behind the Ram on occasion as well.

 

[flan]

Great pics, sweet rigs! Welcome aboard.

 

[Darkone]

Welcome aboard

 

[Atl-atl]

Its about to start getting good in here. The last of the suspension bits have finally rolled in and Blazer camper #2 is on hold for a couple weeks so that means time to tear into this thing. The full list, for now, is the following:

• Thuren Power Wagon front coils
• Thuren Power Wagon rear dual rate coils w extended sway bar links
• Thuren rear coil adjustable shim kit
• Thuren front track bar with bracket
• Thuren rear track bar complete kit
• Thuren weld on front lower shock mount reinforcements
• Thuren spec Fox 2.5 DSC shocks
• Carli front sway bar relocation brackets(if necessary)
• Carli weld in front coil isolator supports
• Factory non Power Wagon coil spring isolators
• PSC steering gear for hydro assist
• PSC hydro assist Ram
• AEV hydro assist kit for Ram HD trucks
• Synergy radius arm brackets
• Synergy 2" front bump stop drops

 

[Atl-atl]

Well its been a couple extremely busy weeks so I havent had time to update until now. Thankfully a lot of the busyness was working on this truck. Suspension and hydro install is done and Ive got a couple hundred miles on the truck with the (extremely unbalanced) 40s. If anyone has suggestions for balancing the tires Im open. Was hoping to avoid beads but its looking like I will have to use them after 3 failed attempts at balancing the tires the "normal" way.

The Thuren rear track bar was more of a bitch to install that I thought it would be. Got it done eventually.

The Synergy MFG brackets were relatively easy to install. Only problem was they didnt come with all the hardware that they should have. The trans crossmember bolts needed to be replaced, not reused as the instructions state. I contacted them about this and was essentially ignored. So I went out and bought 3 additional bolts that I was thankfully able to find locally since they are pretty obscure. Crappy feeling after spending nearly $1000 on some pretty basic metal brackets with a couple fancy billet washers. Im going to try to get someone on the phone so I can elaborate on this situation with them in hopes that they at least update their hardware.

I currently have them set in the 1.5" forward position(the other option is 1/2" forward) which is allowing me to run the 40s with zero trimming of the fender behind the tires. I did have to remove the entire front bumper and trim the fender liner in front to clear since the axle is pushed so far forward now. Whats cool is everything clears with the axle pushed this far forward. Tie rod/draglink/trackbar/hydro ram etc. At full droop and compression, at least that I was able to do with a floor jack and a forklift. The real world is obviously very different so hopefully I can get it out in the dirt soon. The front lower coil buckets are at a weird angle but they are in stock form and the coils appear to have less bow than a stock trucks so thats interesting. Having the radius arms dropped ~3" also helps keep the caster in check and will probably allow me to dial in extra caster to try correcting the coil bowing issues. Having hydro steer makes it so adding caster has no real negative effect. Though some internet engineers will probably disagree with this. Im a fan of running caster as high as possible to combat death wobble as well. If anyone is interested in more detailed pictures or info about the Synergy brackets please ask. There is not a lot of info out there and very few installs that Ive been able to find documented online.

Next thing up was installing the Carli weld in coil spring isolator supports. These simply extend the upper coil bucket so you dont have to worry about popping a coil when flexing really hard. Simply stick them in place, weld them and paint them.

I also installed the Thuren weld on lower shock mount supports. These trucks are known to blow up the stock lower front shock mounts when driven hard on 2.5" or bigger shocks and I dont go easy on vehicles so here we are. Simple install of weld and paint.

I installed some Syndergy 2" front bump drops. but I dont know if Ill keep them. They dont hit the bump pad on the axle very well with the axle pushed 1.5" forward. I might have to fab something depending on what some flex tests result in. At a minimum I will have to reroute some of the brake line brackets on both sides to work with these bumps, or even the stock bumps.

Had a scary moment when I was grinding the upper coil bucket/shock mount area to fit the shock reservoirs. I hit one of the hard brake lines with the grinder. It hasnt leaked but Im worried about it. Its one of the lines that comes off the ABS unit and its a single piece that goes all the way back to the rear axle. A quick recon says it will be a huge PITA to replace. I will likely do this for piece of mind. Be careful when installing shock reservoir mounts on the driver side of these trucks.

Here is a pic of the inside/top of the track bar at the axle end. This is beyond full droop, there is no shock installed. You can see the spring is dangling. The track bar clears on all sides. All of the steering components clear as well which was a pleasant surprise. I was expecting to have to put the axle back into the 1/2" forward position.

Here is almost everything back in place. The coil spring looks better than stock. It does scoot forward as the axle moves upward so I need to do some more testing to see if its going to be safe when fully flexed but for now it works great and drives well on road. It would be rad if someone made a completely new upper coil bucket/shock mount that worked with the axle pushed forward and fixed some of the coil bow. I havent looked too much but Im guessing it more work than would be worth it to try to cut and weld the lower bucket at a better angle. WTF was Dodge thinking with this design?

 

[jsalbre]

You're on 40s with the factory fender flares, no AEV Highmark flares and cut?

 

[Atl-atl]

You're on 40s with the factory fender flares, no AEV Highmark flares and cut?

Correct. I will definitely be trimming some when i can flex it offroad to see where its needed but as a mall crawler right now it doesnt rub at all. Well except for on the sway bar at full lock but thats not a big deal for me. Ill probably weld some extra material to the steering stop on the axle side and call it good.

 

[jsalbre]

Correct. I will definitely be trimming some when i can flex it offroad to see where its needed but as a mall crawler right now it doesnt rub at all. Well except for on the sway bar at full lock but thats not a big deal for me. Ill probably weld some extra material to the steering stop on the axle side and call it good.

Definitely need a picture of that.

 

[Atl-atl]

Part 2 of the suspension install is here. I installed a Rough Country spare tire carrier so I can run a full size spare. It was $200 plus a couple bucks to run some allthread for extra support. I think it turned out great. I used 1/2" stainless threaded rod that I bolted to the front of the bed rail and then ran the rod through an extra lug nut which I then threaded a nut onto. Seems to be holding up great so far.



Next up was taking care of the rear skid plate crossmember. With the new suspension the rear axle droops so far that the driveshaft will hit the crossmember. Carli sells a drop kit for the skid plate but the last thing Im going to do is lift a truck and then defeat the purpose of a lift by lowering the skid plates. So I got to cutting and welding. I cut out a 6" wide section of the center of the crossmember, scooted the cut section forward 3", welded it back together with some extra square tubing and slapped some paint on er. Just like that I gained about 2" of clearance under the driveshaft.



The only other modification that was needed was shortening one of the fore-aft skid "bars" Ill call it. These are hollow tubing so I trimmed the length by 3" and used a press to flatten the new end of the bar. Drilled some holes, ground it smooth and paint finished it.


End result looks great. We will see how it holds up offroad.


Thats it for now. Im still waiting on my new front bumper before I can do much else. Now its time to get an alignment and put some miles on the truck.

Swaybar is still connected in this video!

 

[Atl-atl]

Someone on another forum was asking for more detailed pics of the threaded rod i used to support the spare tire so here they are.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Welcome. Sweet rigs.

 

[jsalbre]

I would suggest putting a backing plate of some kind on the other side of that threaded rod. I’ve seen similar setups rip the sheet metal.

 

[Atl-atl]

I would suggest putting a backing plate of some kind on the other side of that threaded rod. I’ve seen similar setups rip the sheet metal.

That rod is not the only thing holding the tire in place. Its also mounted into the cradle and strap system.

 

[jsalbre]

That rod is not the only thing holding the tire in place. Its also mounted into the cradle and strap system.

Still might recommend some additional support. There's a lot of flex in that bed if you twist up the suspension.

 

[Atl-atl]

Still might recommend some additional support. There's a lot of flex in that bed if you twist up the suspension.

Im going to be running a Leer shell so when I get that installed I might add a couple extra clamps up front to shore up the situation. Hopefully that will be enough. Its extremely tight in that space, I was barely able to get the washer and nut on the end of the rod. I might be able to make a wider plate with a hole drilled in it to add behind the washer but I dont know if it will fit.

 

[Atl-atl]

So two of my tires wont balance with normal weights. Ive tried 3 times at Discount Tire(I bought them from Discount) to get them balanced and all 3 times they said two need more weight than they can put on (25oz per tire) and they suggest beads. Ive heard quite mixed reviews about beads so before trying them I decided to try out Balance Masters balancing rings. These things are kinda crazy, they are a thin disc that you mount between the wheel and hub. The disc has a tube at the outer circumference that is filled with a rubber hose that is filled with mercury. Yes, that mercury. Reviews are pretty good and the place I bought my wheels sells them so I thought Id give them a try. They showed up today and I threw them on. First impression, below 50mph everything is smooth, much better than before. Above 50 its better but not perfect, in fact I wouldnt even say good. Previously my steering wheel didnt vibrate at all which made me think the fronts dont need any help. I put on all 4 just to see what would happen. Im going to remove the fronts and test drive again tomorrow. Maybe Ill double up the rears for extra balancing ability hahaha. I imagine Balance Masters does not approve of that.

If I cant get these to work Im going back to Discount to try getting two of the tires warrantied since two balanced just fine. Has anyone gone through this process with Discount Tire? What should I do/say to get them to replace the tires?

 

[Atl-atl]

Slight update on the tire balancing situation. I pulled out the front Balance Masters to see if there was a change(there was not) and someone told me to remove the stud retainers because they might cause an imbalance with aftermarket wheels. Vibrations are noticeably better after removing the retaining clips which is crazy. Still bad enough that tomorrow I will be going to Discount to see about getting the rears replaced under warranty.

In other, but still tire related news, I played with crayons this afternoon. Hopefully I will only have to do this once. I would really like to trim enough that I can put the axle back into the 1/2" forward position so that means I will be trimming quite a lot. Plan is to retain the stock flares and only trim the front and rear sections. I want to be at full bump before running into the top of the flares, let alone the top of the inside of the wheel well. Ill probably get hate for limiting my up travel but I just dont care.

On the exterior fender I marked out my cut lines with crayon to see how it was going to lay out and get an idea how far I will need to go on the inner parts of the fender. The outer fender, flare and wheel well liner will be really easy to trim. The pinch weld and inner fender parts will be a little more work. Im brainstorming ideas for how to accomplish this. There is a LOT of room to cut before running into anything important like body mounts or door hinges, so thats rad. The only issue that will need some finagling will be the stupid enormous wiring harness that is right behind the tire on the driver side. Once again, what the hell were the Dodge engineers thinking?

The yellow line farthest from the white flare clips is where Im planning to cut. Thankfully the clips for the stock flares are quite far away so a lot can be trimmed while retaining nearly all of the clips. The hash marks are where Im planning to make relief cuts and then fold the metal over so that I can refasten the liner. Ill try to make the least amount of relief cuts as is necessary. Im hoping to be able to use the stock liner and nothing more, just massaging it into a new shape with some heat and pressure.


On the inner fender there is quite a lot of oddly shaped sheet metal. There is a large "bubble" the is behind the pinch weld. It is most common for people with these trucks to simply fold over the pinch weld and massage the liner to gain the clearance they need. The bubble is an empty cavity, or partially empty, it has foam insulation inside some of the area.


Im planning to go one step further than simply folding over the pinch seam. After folding it Im going to make wedge cuts on either side of the seam about 2" behind it and then push the portion of metal with the folded seam backwards. Ill then refasten it however I can. Id prefer to weld it back into place but Im scared of starting a fire since the cavity is filled with foam. I might place some tack welds and then seam sealer the rest. The cavity already has quite a few holes from the factory that are open to the atmosphere so I dont think Ill be causing any real harm, other than possibly losing some rigidity of the outer fender but I doubt it since its mounted in so many other places.



All said and done this will gain over 3" of clearance behind the tire. According to the maths I can fit 40s with the axle in the stock location after this amount of trimming. I wont put the axle that far back though, it will either stay where it is currently at 1 1/2" forward or move back to only 1/2" forward. 1/2" is ideal. In front/above the tire, much less is needed. Ill wait to trim anything until I can get it flexed out and see what is needed. Potentially just a little bit of the headlight bracket. Possibly some of the fender as marked in this picture.

 

[jsalbre]

Slight update on the tire balancing situation. I pulled out the front Balance Masters to see if there was a change(there was not) and someone told me to remove the stud retainers because they might cause an imbalance with aftermarket wheels. Vibrations are noticeably better after removing the retaining clips which is crazy. Still bad enough that tomorrow I will be going to Discount to see about getting the rears replaced under warranty.

In other, but still tire related news, I played with crayons this afternoon. Hopefully I will only have to do this once. I would really like to trim enough that I can put the axle back into the 1/2" forward position so that means I will be trimming quite a lot. Plan is to retain the stock flares and only trim the front and rear sections. I want to be at full bump before running into the top of the flares, let alone the top of the inside of the wheel well. Ill probably get hate for limiting my up travel but I just dont care.

On the exterior fender I marked out my cut lines with crayon to see how it was going to lay out and get an idea how far I will need to go on the inner parts of the fender. The outer fender, flare and wheel well liner will be really easy to trim. The pinch weld and inner fender parts will be a little more work. Im brainstorming ideas for how to accomplish this. There is a LOT of room to cut before running into anything important like body mounts or door hinges, so thats rad. The only issue that will need some finagling will be the stupid enormous wiring harness that is right behind the tire on the driver side. Once again, what the hell were the Dodge engineers thinking?

The yellow line farthest from the white flare clips is where Im planning to cut. Thankfully the clips for the stock flares are quite far away so a lot can be trimmed while retaining nearly all of the clips. The hash marks are where Im planning to make relief cuts and then fold the metal over so that I can refasten the liner. Ill try to make the least amount of relief cuts as is necessary. Im hoping to be able to use the stock liner and nothing more, just massaging it into a new shape with some heat and pressure.
View attachment 81855

On the inner fender there is quite a lot of oddly shaped sheet metal. There is a large "bubble" the is behind the pinch weld. It is most common for people with these trucks to simply fold over the pinch weld and massage the liner to gain the clearance they need. The bubble is an empty cavity, or partially empty, it has foam insulation inside some of the area.
View attachment 81856

Im planning to go one step further than simply folding over the pinch seam. After folding it Im going to make wedge cuts on either side of the seam about 2" behind it and then push the portion of metal with the folded seam backwards. Ill then refasten it however I can. Id prefer to weld it back into place but Im scared of starting a fire since the cavity is filled with foam. I might place some tack welds and then seam sealer the rest. The cavity already has quite a few holes from the factory that are open to the atmosphere so I dont think Ill be causing any real harm, other than possibly losing some rigidity of the outer fender but I doubt it since its mounted in so many other places.
View attachment 81857
View attachment 81858

All said and done this will gain over 3" of clearance behind the tire. According to the maths I can fit 40s with the axle in the stock location after this amount of trimming. I wont put the axle that far back though, it will either stay where it is currently at 1 1/2" forward or move back to only 1/2" forward. 1/2" is ideal. In front/above the tire, much less is needed. Ill wait to trim anything until I can get it flexed out and see what is needed. Potentially just a little bit of the headlight bracket. Possibly some of the fender as marked in this picture.
View attachment 81859

At that point why not just get the AEV Highmark flares? They’ve already done all the engineering work and figured out the cut-lines.

 

[Pearce]

This brings flashbacks of lifting and long arm swapping my 98 Grand Cherokee in the early 2000's. While fun at that time, never going to go through that again. LOL Enjoying your updates and progress.

 

[Atl-atl]

At that point why not just get the AEV Highmark flares? They’ve already done all the engineering work and figured out the cut-lines.

First and foremost I simply dont want them. There are a number of reasons why. They are extremely wide, adding something like 8” to the width of an already huge truck. They require different offset wheels than I want to run. They make the wheel opening so enormous that 40s look small. Also “everyone is doing it” has never been the way I go about my business. I see Prospector XLs daily in Arizona and dont want to be another one. I would have just bought a Prospector XL if I wanted one. Ive never seen a Power Wagon on 40s in real life and only a couple on the internet. I like the look of the stock Power Wagon flares and want to keep the truck as close to factory looking as possible with the exception of the front bumper, and much larger tires obviously haha. I like fabricating and modifying things, making them my own and being different.