Articulink? Technical discussion

[loveracing1988]

I can't for the life of my imagine why the articulink radius arms would lower the capacity of the vehicle to tow and haul. It just adds a 2nd bushing to the upper axle attachment points.

When I inquired with cjc off road what they do with power wagon radius arms they told me and then said that they negatively impact hadeling on cummins trucks. Idk if there is any truth to it or not though.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

I would think RAM would just use articulink across its truck lineup if it didn't have drawbacks (payload, etc). It would save them tooling costs as well as provide another selling point to its trucks.

Do the Carli radius arms on a power wagon reduce suspension travel? I assume so.

 

[thkbaron]

I never understood why either but I didn’t wanna argue with anybody because I definitely didn’t go to school for that stuff.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

Think about it.

A PW comes with the 6.4 gas hemi and is built to focus more as an offroad truck.

The other trucks can come with the diesel engine, which is several hundred pounds more weight sitting on the front end of the truck. And are more focused on hauling and towing.

There's a reason RAM does not put the diesel in the PW. The one they have clearly stated is because of the weight of the motor on the front end.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

Think about it.

A PW comes with the 6.4 gas hemi and is built to focus more as an offroad truck.

The other trucks can come with the diesel engine, which is several hundred pounds more weight sitting on the front end of the truck. And are more focused on hauling and towing.

There's a reason RAM does not put the diesel in the PW. The one they have clearly stated is because of the weight of the motor on the front end.

Yup, if it didn't have drawbacks they would use it on all their trucks.

 

[jadmt]

I live very close to AEV r&d and have spoken to the owner of AEV several times (mostly jeep stuff). When he found out I had a 2020 PW he asked if I would bring it in so they could get the procal snap issue figured out (his brother invented the procal and is way smart ) and to see if their HD diff cover fit as the other 2019 and up HD models had changed rear ends. While I was there I mentioned that I was disappointed with the payload and asked if they thought about making rear coils with greater capacity. He said that will not work with the articulink up front as if you put a heavy load on and then brake hard they have a tendency to list (think of a ship listing) He has worked directly with Jeep, RAM and GM engineers and in order to supply OEM parts the testing is extensive. He said just adding a 2 or 3 lb item to the front required all kinds of tests at all different speeds, braking and evasive manuevers etc. he showed me on the computer the difference in shock changes etc. So to me it makes perfect sense that adding a bushing in the control arms that give more flexibility would have great impact on payload. remember manufacturers not only have to rate them for going in a straight line at a constant speed but emergency braking and evasive maneuvers. So think about braking and shifting load to the front. Even a little extra give from the control arms will exert extra force on the coils. I think this is were listing comes in to play. If one side dips more than the other due to road surface or even a little unequal braking yada yada yada...

 

[AnthonyD1978]

I live very close to AEV r&d and have spoken to the owner of AEV several times (mostly jeep stuff). When he found out I had a 2020 PW he asked if I would bring it in so they could get the procal snap issue figured out (his brother invented the procal and is way smart ) and to see if their HD diff cover fit as the other 2019 and up HD models had changed rear ends. While I was there I mentioned that I was disappointed with the payload and asked if they thought about making rear coils with greater capacity. He said that will not work with the articulink up front as if you put a heavy load on and then brake hard they have a tendency to list (think of a ship listing) He has worked directly with Jeep, RAM and GM engineers and in order to supply OEM parts the testing is extensive. He said just adding a 2 or 3 lb item to the front required all kinds of tests at all different speeds, braking and evasive manuevers etc. he showed me on the computer the difference in shock changes etc. So to me it makes perfect sense that adding a bushing in the control arms that give more flexibility would have great impact on payload. remember manufacturers not only have to rate them for going in a straight line at a constant speed but emergency braking and evasive maneuvers. So think about braking and shifting load to the front. Even a little extra give from the control arms will exert extra force on the coils. I think this is were listing comes in to play. If one side dips more than the other due to road surface or even a little unequal braking yada yada yada...

Tell the owner they need better QA on their diff covers lol. Not to mention crap customer service (offering $7 back when they had to ship a new diff cover to me and then I still had to re-tap the drain hole is a joke).

I know a few of us PW owners are pushing up to and over listed max payload. I've yet to have any unsafe handling issues on or off the road (pre and post Carli Pintop install). I still love late braking and taking turns at speed in this thing like I'm in a track car.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

I did some quick research to answer my own question. This is what I found.

According to triaged (suspension guru), a radius arm suspension has a lot of built in roll resistance, (and a ton of anti dive). On a radius arm suspension, as the suspension flexes the control arms try to twist the axle. That axle isn't going to twist so the bushings have to distort to allow for some flex. Basically this turns the front axle into a giant anti sway bar. On a radius arm like the power wagon, the extra bushings allow for a little more flex, but also allow for a little less roll resistance. At max capacity, this might make the truck feel less stable.

This is why CJC got negative results with the cummins and RAM doesn't put the PW radius arms on the trucks with higher payload. Its also why rockcrawlerdude was able to ditch the sway bar on his 2500. There is enough roll resistance built in to the factory design.

It also leaves me to believe that the Carlie radius arm are going to have less capacity to flex than the OEM non PW radius arms. The Johnny Joint isn't going to distort so there is one less bushing to allow flex. I think this is why they recommend using their torsion sway bar with their radius arms.

 

[jadmt]

Tell the owner they need better QA on their diff covers lol. Not to mention crap customer service (offering $7 back when they had to ship a new diff cover to me and then I still had to re-tap the drain hole is a joke).

I know a few of us PW owners are pushing up to and over listed max payload. I've yet to have any unsafe handling issues on or off the road (pre and post Carli Pintop install). I still love late braking and taking turns at speed in this thing like I'm in a track car.

I got a free one because it fit but I agree the drain plug is ****..I am getting ready to change the fluid and I do not think I will be able to drain it thru the drain plug as it is so freaking tight I think I will just strip the plug out. I was there when they were test fitting it and they had to reef like crazy screwing the drain plug in and even commented on it and they said that was normal. did you replace the plug and if so with what size and what tap did you use?

 

[AnthonyD1978]

I got a free one because it fit but I agree the drain plug is ****..I am getting ready to change the fluid and I do not think I will be able to drain it thru the drain plug as it is so freaking tight I think I will just strip the plug out. I was there when they were test fitting it and they had to reef like crazy screwing the drain plug in and even commented on it and they said that was normal. did you replace the plug and if so with what size and what tap did you use?

You must have gotten one of the new ones, because when they originally advertised them for the 2019+ it wouldn't fit without cutting your brake line bracket. I think now they mention this on their site, but they originally said it was bolt-on. After having to deal with the drain plug issue on both the front and rear cover and then finding out during the install that the rear wasn't bolt-on I was pretty upset with AEV.

They refused to tell me the tap size for some stupid reason (as well as other members here that had the same issue) and I just had to work the drain plug in and out to strip the coating off the threads. Originally, it would only engage like two threads on the bolt for the front and rear AEV covers. After replacing the covers and still having the issue they said, "oh that's normal". Yeah, right.

At least they offered me free shipping on a Procal that I didn't even buy. Thanks for offering to save $7 for all my troubles and delays though....

Based on my experience, I don't see why they have such a good reputation. This is what happens when a company gets too big and customer service/QA can't keep up with the expansion.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[jadmt]

You must have gotten one of the new ones, because when they originally advertised them for the 2019+ it wouldn't fit without cutting your brake line bracket. I think now they mention this on their site, but they originally said it was bolt-on. After having to deal with the drain plug issue on both the front and rear cover and then finding out during the install that the rear wasn't bolt-on I was pretty upset with AEV.

They refused to tell me the tap size for some stupid reason (as well as other members here that had the same issue) and I just had to work the drain plug in and out to strip the coating off the threads. Originally, it would only engage like two threads on the bolt for the front and rear AEV covers. After replacing the covers and still having the issue they said, "oh that's normal". Yeah, right.

At least they offered me free shipping on a Procal that I didn't even buy. Thanks for offering to save $7 for all my troubles and delays though....

Based on my experience, I don't see why they have such a good reputation. This is what happens when a company gets too big and customer service/QA can't keep up with the expansion.

Sorry for the rant.

no I got the original one, the reason they said you need to cut the brake bracket is because they discovered that when test fitting on mine. It was a simple hit it with a die grinder tho.

 

[jetrinka]

That sure is a sexy looking piece of diff coverage.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

no I got the original one, the reason they said you need to cut the brake bracket is because they discovered that when test fitting on mine. It was a simple hit it with a die grinder tho.

That's my complaint. They didn't say you needed to cut the bracket. Not until after I contacted them and complained about it. Then they updated the install manual. They obviously did not test fit the product on and actual 2019+ until after the fact. The whole fiasco with my front and rear covers and how they handled it completely rubbed me the wrong way. Glad I got them on, but not happy with their service for such a supposedly high-end company.

 

[jadmt]

That's my complaint. They didn't say you needed to cut the bracket. Not until after I contacted them and complained about it. Then they updated the install manual. They obviously did not test fit the product on and actual 2019+ until after the fact. The whole fiasco with my front and rear covers and how they handled it completely rubbed me the wrong way. Glad I got them on, but not happy with their service for such a supposedly high-end company.

they did test fit on mine, my 2020 was the first power wagon they were able to get their hands on. prior to test fitting on mine they said right on the web site did not fit 2019 and up power wagon. they made a drawing of the area that needed to be cut. It actually took a couple weeks for them to change their web page to show it actually fit but apparently the drawing got lost or the web designer did not put it on, but I know from the R&D end they did their best. they were thorough on testing to make sure it fit and not just around the diff perimeter itself but the gears as well. I certainly can understand your stance. If I had paid I would not be happy that the drain plug is so tight fitting. They should also tell you the tap size without issue, unless they don't actually know which if that is the case they should be getting ahold of the foundry or machinist and figure it out.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

they did test fit on mine, my 2020 was the first power wagon they were able to get their hands on. prior to test fitting on mine they said right on the web site did not fit 2019 and up power wagon. they made a drawing of the area that needed to be cut. It actually took a couple weeks for them to change their web page to show it actually fit but apparently the drawing got lost or the web designer did not put it on, but I know from the R&D end they did their best. they were thorough on testing to make sure it fit and not just around the diff perimeter itself but the gears as well. I certainly can understand your stance. If I had paid I would not be happy that the drain plug is so tight fitting. They should also tell you the tap size without issue, unless they don't actually know which if that is the case they should be getting ahold of the foundry or machinist and figure it out.

LOL dude. They did not say on their website prior to test fitting on yours that it did not fit the 2019+ Power Wagons. In fact, they specifically said it fit the 2019+ Power Wagons (but would not fit the normal HD trucks). Plenty of us bought them for our power wagons because it said 2019+ and then we complained to them that they need to update the info and install instructions to give people a heads up that the bracket needed to be modified.

You're thinking of their 2019+ non-Power Wagon covers and how the product page originally said it didn't fit those trucks.

EDIT: Just to make sure I'm not crazy I went and looked at their cached website listing from over a year ago.

 

[jadmt]

LOL dude. They did not say on their website prior to test fitting on yours that it did not fit the 2019+ Power Wagons. In fact, they specifically said it fit the 2019+ Power Wagons (but would not fit the normal HD trucks). Plenty of us bought them for our power wagons because it said 2019+ and then we complained to them that they need to update the info and install instructions to give people a heads up that the bracket needed to be modified.

You're thinking of their non-Power Wagon covers and how the product page originally said it didn't fit.

You are wrong about that. They asked me to bring mine in so they could make sure they fit. August of 2020.

LOL dude. They did not say on their website prior to test fitting on yours that it did not fit the 2019+ Power Wagons. In fact, they specifically said it fit the 2019+ Power Wagons (but would not fit the normal HD trucks). Plenty of us bought them for our power wagons because it said 2019+ and then we complained to them that they need to update the info and install instructions to give people a heads up that the bracket needed to be modified.

You're thinking of their 2019+ non-Power Wagon covers and how the product page originally said it didn't fit those trucks.

EDIT: Just to make sure I'm not crazy I went and looked at their cached website listing from over a year ago.

View attachment 32036

yes that was after I took mine in. remember I took mine in August of 2020. You did not get yours until like march of 2021. that was printed after they checked mine to see if it would fit. prior to fitting mine it said they would not fit 2019 HD.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

You are wrong about that. They asked me to bring mine in so they could make sure they fit. August of 2020.

yes that was after I took mine in. remember I took mine in August of 2020. You did not get yours until like march of 2021. that was printed after they checked mine to see if it would fit. prior to fitting mine it said they would not fit 2019 HD.

I think we must have a misunderstanding. At least on my end lol.

You've already said they forgot to update their website and the instruction manual. That was my whole point and when I bought mine the website said it fit without any modification and so did the manual. That's the simple truth. It was also the first time CJC had heard of the issue and would let their account rep know. I documented this whole experience on the forum at the time it happened actually.

I even had an open case # with them for the brake line bracket. They said they will notify their engineering team because their documents didn't show anything about modifying the brake line bracket.

 

[jetrinka]

Do the AEV covers take into account the differing fluid levels the PW and non PW rear axles? I am assuming the fluid checking plug would be in the same location as stock and then one can measure themselves like they normally would?

 

[Trail_Wagon]

I took the truck out this morning and fully flexed it on the rocks. Teetering on the passenger front and driver rear, with the passenger rear several inches in the air. You can see the articulink radius arms in action. Look at the distortion in the bushings. This is where the flex comes from.

 

[jetrinka]

I took the truck out this morning and fully flexed it on the rocks. Teetering on the passenger front and driver rear, with the passenger rear several inches in the air. You can see the articulink radius arms in action. Look at the distortion in the bushings. This is where the flex comes from.

View attachment 32713

Wow thats a great picture and example of how it works. Thank you!