Are current-generation Ram HDs smaller than equivalent Ford / GM HD trucks?

[goffredo]

Hey guys, newbie here! I’m upgrading from a 2018 Tundra that has a full-time slide-in camper in the bed. I was on a Cat scale for the first time the other day and was shocked to learn I’m WAY over (8560 pounds) its GVWR (7100 pounds). It has served me well, but I’d rather sell it and recoup some cash to upgrade to a HD truck, than to snap it in half and be sad.

I spend a lot of time off road with my camper. I like to find little twisty forest service spur roads that have seldom-used flat-ish spots to camp and not see anybody for days and days. I love the solitude. I scrape the hell out of my truck bashing through branches and bushes on trails that were meant for much narrower vehicles. I don’t go fast or do rock-crawling or anything crazy, but I spend lots of time on Sierra Nevada forest service roads, less-frequented Death Valley / Inyo roads, and sketchy old mining roads. For this, my Tundra with 2.5” lift and 33” tires has served me well.

Now, I am having a hard time coming to terms with losing the maneuverability, tight fits, and offroad capabilities of the Tundra, but I have to acknowledge the payload capacity issue.

In looking at the various 0-5 year old HD offerings from Ram, GM, Ford, I couldn’t help but notice how BIG some of the trucks are! They are so tall! I don’t really want a big truck. I just want a truck that is engineered for a 2500+ pound payload, and can perform reasonably offroad. I guess you could say I’m looking for the smallest, big truck.

To this end, I read that the 2019+ Ram HDs are dimensionally smaller than the equivalent Ford / GM HD trucks because the HD Rams still use the older, 4th generation cabs. The example given was that a shortbed crew cab Ram 2500 wheelbase is 10” shorter than equivalent Ford/GM truck.

Is this true? Have I found my small, big truck in the Ram HD?

 

[oledirteh]

Well, having been a offroader forever i would personally be looking at something with solid axles. So that takes chevy/gmc out of the picture.

Now, if your looking for a HD, then i think for the money aspect i would go gasser over diesel. and maybe even go with a power wagon based truck for the lockers, winch, all that stuff. a 2500 will ride way better then a 3500.

Fords, i like the look. i really do. they are big looking beastly rigs. but when i park next to one im often the same height, or maybe a inch lower.

 

[SolidAxleorBust]

Power Wagons are great for what you want to do. You may have to add air bags or something, but its a heavy duty and I tow 15K with mine easily, no mods. It is big, but dimensionally its perfect for off road, gets you the solid axle and lockers. As far as big trucks, off road = big truck. Otherwise switching to another system, such as tow behind camper with some off road capability could be a solution. I plan to tow a camper behind a mid size truck eventually, Grenadier or Quartermaster then ditch it for some trails periodically and come back to it for instance.

 

[Squatch]

If I liked the Toyota and it treated me well so far I’d keep it, they take abuse well. My worthless non answer to your question.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

Biggest issue with a solid axle truck is the turning radius sucks.
But I love my Power Wagon sitting on 35s.
Have been off road in Baja and westeren Nevada with it with no issues.
Mud. Snow, dirt roads.

 

[tchur1]

Ive owned 3 of the trucks you mentioned here - a 2019 Tundra, a 2022 Ram 3500 and now a '24 Ford F250. Given your use case id get a power wagon and add airbags as others have listed above. My Ram felt quite a bit smaller than the ford (both in terms of cab size and overall drivability) My brother also had a power wagon and it was incredibly capable for what it was and you can find them both new and used for a very good deal comparatively right now.

 

[Wanderlust073]

Slide in camper may rule out Ram’s 2500 for you just based on the rear coils vs springs, especially crawling around off road.

 

[RKCRLR]

I'm in the process of installing a 2000 Bigfoot 10.6 camper on my truck. I spent a lot of time looking for a truck that would be the best fit for my camper. If you have an older cabover camper the biggest problem will be the cab height. In general, older cabover campers had a height of 44" from the bed to the cab sleeper overhang. As truck cab heights increased the camper heights increased to 48". My camper had 2 1/8" minimum clearance between the cab and camper on my old truck. I'll need to use a platform at least 1 1/2" thick to get about the same clearance, and that only gives me about an inch at the shark fin antenna so I'll have to relocate that. Ford and GM truck cabs are even higher, Ford being the worst. There are some other nuances (the tailgate openings can be narrower on the new trucks). Another challenge I encountered was the tailgate. At least RAM still has the quick release tailgate cables, the others required tools to remove the tailgate. And all the dealers ordered the multifunction tailgates on the GM/Ford trucks which makes them even heavier. And GM put the electrical connector for the tailgate above the spare tire.

As someone mentioned, be wary of the RAM 2500 with the inboard springs. They can be unstable with top heavy loads. You need a 3500 to get leaf springs. And if you get a 2500 diesel there isn't much "official" payload left, you'll have to be comfortable exceeding the payload as long as you remain within the rear axle weight limit.

 

[goffredo]

Slide in camper may rule out Ram’s 2500 for you just based on the rear coils vs springs, especially crawling around off road.

The rear muiltilink suspension does concern me, primarily because, compared to leafs, there’s a bunch of low-hanging stuff that you can bash onto rocks. I’m used to seeing a tall rock on the road and mentally positioning it somewhere between the rear pumpkin in the middle, and the rear shock’s lower perch on either side, to clear it. With all those bars and shackle type things on the Ram’s rear end, I’m not so sure. It may just be a matter of reconditioning my trail awareness.

But it also concerns me because of the side-to-side sway issue, since I will always have my 2500 pound camper in the back. While the camper is a pop-top that projects maybe a foot over the cab roof at most (when closed), and so its center of mass isn’t as high as it could be in a hardside camper, it is still going to want to sway side-to-side when going over dips and rocks, and I don’t know how well the Ram HD can handle this. Is there aftermarket magic that can help?

At the same time, as long as the rig can handle the sway without causing premature wear, I drive pretty slowly these days, especially over rock gardens and the like. When I had a 900 pound roof-top tent thing mounted on the bedrails of my Tundra, the sway from driving over Steele Pass in Death Valley caused two of the bed’s crossmember mounting brackets to shear loose and punch up through the bed’s floor. In hindsight having 900 pounds resting entirely on bedrails is crazy, and whenever I see someone with a roof top tent I just shake my head. That is why I upgraded to a slide-in camper effectively bolts onto the frame rails. And the on-demand hot water is nice too.

My brother also had a power wagon … you can find them both new and used for a very good deal comparatively right now.

Is there something going on that I am not aware of, that is causing the pricing of these trucks to be favorable right now?

 

[tchur1]

The rear muiltilink suspension does concern me, primarily because, compared to leafs, there’s a bunch of low-hanging stuff that you can bash onto rocks. I’m used to seeing a tall rock on the road and mentally positioning it somewhere between the rear pumpkin in the middle, and the rear shock’s lower perch on either side, to clear it. With all those bars and shackle type things on the Ram’s rear end, I’m not so sure. It may just be a matter of reconditioning my trail awareness.

But it also concerns me because of the side-to-side sway issue, since I will always have my 2500 pound camper in the back. While the camper is a pop-top that projects maybe a foot over the cab roof at most (when closed), and so its center of mass isn’t as high as it could be in a hardside camper, it is still going to want to sway side-to-side when going over dips and rocks, and I don’t know how well the Ram HD can handle this. Is there aftermarket magic that can help?

At the same time, as long as the rig can handle the sway without causing premature wear, I drive pretty slowly these days, especially over rock gardens and the like. When I had a 900 pound roof-top tent thing mounted on the bedrails of my Tundra, the sway from driving over Steele Pass in Death Valley caused two of the bed’s crossmember mounting brackets to shear loose and punch up through the bed’s floor. In hindsight having 900 pounds resting entirely on bedrails is crazy, and whenever I see someone with a roof top tent I just shake my head. That is why I upgraded to a slide-in camper effectively bolts onto the frame rails. And the on-demand hot water is nice too.




Is there something going on that I am not aware of, that is causing the pricing of these trucks to be favorable right now?

If youre open to the aftermarket mods route Carli makes springs for the rear built to handle higher capacity loads (R2 rear springs)- pair that with airbags and I dont think you will have any sway issues.

Idk that there is anything special going on with Power Wagons right now but he was recently looking to get another Power Wagon and they were in the mid to low 50s used for a lower trim level. New they can be ordered for like 12% off MSRP or better (look at Mark Dodge) + incentives.

 

[Wanderlust073]

The rear muiltilink suspension does concern me, primarily because, compared to leafs, there’s a bunch of low-hanging stuff that you can bash onto rocks. I’m used to seeing a tall rock on the road and mentally positioning it somewhere between the rear pumpkin in the middle, and the rear shock’s lower perch on either side, to clear it. With all those bars and shackle type things on the Ram’s rear end, I’m not so sure. It may just be a matter of reconditioning my trail awareness.

But it also concerns me because of the side-to-side sway issue, since I will always have my 2500 pound camper in the back. While the camper is a pop-top that projects maybe a foot over the cab roof at most (when closed), and so its center of mass isn’t as high as it could be in a hardside camper, it is still going to want to sway side-to-side when going over dips and rocks, and I don’t know how well the Ram HD can handle this. Is there aftermarket magic that can help?

At the same time, as long as the rig can handle the sway without causing premature wear, I drive pretty slowly these days, especially over rock gardens and the like. When I had a 900 pound roof-top tent thing mounted on the bedrails of my Tundra, the sway from driving over Steele Pass in Death Valley caused two of the bed’s crossmember mounting brackets to shear loose and punch up through the bed’s floor. In hindsight having 900 pounds resting entirely on bedrails is crazy, and whenever I see someone with a roof top tent I just shake my head. That is why I upgraded to a slide-in camper effectively bolts onto the frame rails. And the on-demand hot water is nice too.




Is there something going on that I am not aware of, that is causing the pricing of these trucks to be favorable right now?

Right the swaying. Its the location of the coils, something that aftermarket replacements will not correct for. I offroad with my 2500 all the time and it sways like a vegas stripper. I couldn’t imagine it with a top heavy bed load…

 

[AH64ID]

If youre open to the aftermarket mods route Carli makes springs for the rear built to handle higher capacity loads (R2 rear springs)- pair that with airbags and I dont think you will have any sway issues.

Idk that there is anything special going on with Power Wagons right now but he was recently looking to get another Power Wagon and they were in the mid to low 50s used for a lower trim level. New they can be ordered for like 12% off MSRP or better (look at Mark Dodge) + incentives.

Directly from Carli about the R2 “These are NOT for those with slide-in campers approaching the capacity of the truck”

IIRC they are still softer than stock springs.

 

[RKCRLR]

I've seen people post that aftermarket air bags will help with the stability on the 2500 even if you have the OEM air suspension.

 

[neoprufrok]

While I don't own an HD yet, I'm in the process of buying one once the 2025s get announced. But my use case is similar to yours plus towing 1-2 times a month with about 8000lbs. I'll be overlanding far (2-3 day overlanding will be handled by a Jeep) so will likely go with a pop up camper like SuperTramp or something. In doing my research, I learned that even in MegaCab config, the RAM HD is just slightly shorter than Ford HD (check the AT4X AEV length at 250" and Megacab at 249") so yes, the RAMs are shorter and more maneuverable in CC configuration.

I also happen to know someone who knows Dave Harriton, CEO of AEV and I talked to Dave on the phone a couple of times. He had great advice, and he said what others have said here. Basically:

1) 2500 Air suspension isn't good if you're overlanding/off road, if it blows your stranded. So get stock springs.
2) 2500 is fine if not doing slide in camper. Once you add all the other stuff you'll bring with a camper - you'll hit the limit.
3) Gasser is fine if not spinning heavy ass wheel/tires and also easily found everywhere (gas I mean). Diesel better for heavy loads and 40" tires.
4) Megacab can get unwieldy on the trails, and the breakover angle is worse. That said, it's no different than an AT4X.
5) if 2500 with bags - that will level and help you feel better about getting close or over the GVWR, but you're basically masking the problem. short term fine, but for the cops and liabilities sake if in an accident - may not be great.

All this said, I'm waiting to see what teh 2025s will be like - also waiting on the initial 6 months of trucks not working before I order mine and start building it out... but I'm pretty set on a 3500 at this point with Prospector XL conversion. Hope this helps.

 

[goffredo]

Thanks for all of the insight! I was not familiar with AEV, and the Prospector XL build is interesting. I think for me personally, a 3500 with 40” tires is not really in alignment with my “smallest big truck” quest. However, it is good to know there are aftermarket options of this caliber.

To be honest, my half-ton Tundra on 33’s was doing quite well with this slide-in camper! It swayed like mad, it bottomed out hard, and I learned to identify those rock gardens and water bars that were problematic, and to drive it really slowly over them. It worked great. Also, there are a number of attractive young youtubers living out of my same camper mounted on a Tundra, with the cute dog and the Alabama Hills backdrop and all that. Or on F150s. Lots and lots. But when I discovered I was over the GVWR, and more importantly over the GAWR on the rear axle, well, I am old enough to have a lot to lose if something bad were to happen, so I am compelled to correct this hastily.

I’m going to plan to get the most maneuverable 2500 I can afford, and one which is spec’d to handle my slide-in camper payload with ample wiggle room to spare. If it drives like a ham sandwich and I can’t stand it, I can save up for some AEV mods. Or I can sell it and try something else. But probably, it will be just fine.

 

[goffredo]

… will likely go with a pop up camper like SuperTramp or something…

Sorry if it’s a little off-topic, but a little unsolicited input on the SuperTramp. I love the aesthetics of this camper. It feels open, airy, spacious. The layout is so clean, with a galley kitchen on one side, and a bench seat on the other side. I fell in love with it when I spent time inside of one.

The reason I went with a competitor (an OEV Back Country) was, well primarily the value - OEV has a healthy resale inventory unlike SuperTramp, and I got one in excellent condition for around $20k. Good luck finding a used SuperTramp, and the $68k starting price for a new SuperTramp slide-in camper is just … I don’t know how I could ever realize that much value out of a slide-in camper. The value just isn’t there for me. But also because the SuperTramp is a relatively new company and who knows if they’ll be around in a few years. OEV and Four Wheel Campers have been around for a long time. And also because SuperTramp uses a single molded interior, with such tight tolerances against their cabinets, windows, appliances… which looks just fantastic, but if the cabinet or window or appliance needs replaced and the vendor no longer makes that exact model, you’re going to have to do some very un-fantastic-looking cutting, or fabricate a bezel, or otherwise go to a lot of trouble. The panel design of 4WC and OEV, while not quite as sleek, is hugely more maintainable and repairable in the face of supply chain issues, manufacturers retiring model lines, having a bear break into your camper and tear things up, etc.

I would encourage you to consider these things. Otherwise, yeah, SuperTramp is one sexy camper.

Interestingly, SuperTramp has some shots of their slide-in camper in a Tundra on their website!