2500 vs 3500

[Rockcrawlindude]

Tradesman?

Yea buddy

 

[DougB]

Yea buddy

And gas.

 

[UglyViking]

I've not had the chance to dig deep into this but if I recall correctly most of the Ford SD trucks have lower front axle ratings than our RAMs, and yet both trucks come standard with 10k GVWRs and Ford offers an optional 800lbs GVWR upgrade. I think GMC now defaults to this higher rating in their 2500s or perhaps it is a local thing? Either way, I think people spend a lot of time discussing that it's due to the leaf vs coil debate. Maybe it's true that our coils aren't rated for the higher weight but it's not because it's a coil. Tanks use coil suspension, so it's not like coil is just overall inferior in terms of weight carrying capability. Now, you may make an argument for sway, which is probably accurate, but you can get upgraded sway bars and unless you're really going crazy I can't imagine it's much of an issue. (cue the "I'm not a lawyer" comment)

One other thing I want to call out in terms of payload. I hear a lot of guys make comments about how you can buy a 3500, and then get softer springs for a better ride, yet those same guys will claim that you can't buy a coil sprung truck and add airbags because they don't up the payload. That argument is accurate in the legal sense, but that is about it I think. Physics is physics, regardless of what the gov says. I don't see how you can use airbags to make a truck sit more level, then claim you've not upped your payload, if someone can explain the physics to me on that I'd love it.

End of the day I've got no doubt that a DRW 3500 can tow better than a SRW 2500. And yes, I'd always like to have more capability than less, but the question becomes at what cost? Do I buy a nice new Peterbilt to make sure I give myself a nice 50% or more safety margin?

I personally plan to add bags for leveling the load and calling it a day. One day in the future if I find I'm towing often enough to justify it and want a larger camper or more trailer capacity I'll jump up to the DRW 3500. The only thing I could see getting me into the 3500 SRW would be if I decide I've just got to have that aisin, but to be honest I can see RAM revamping their SO/HO strategy in the future with a single trans, most likely a ZF, and a single motor.

This ended up being a bit rant-esq but I was really just sharing my thoughts.

 

[RV_Goose]

I've not had the chance to dig deep into this but if I recall correctly most of the Ford SD trucks have lower front axle ratings than our RAMs, and yet both trucks come standard with 10k GVWRs and Ford offers an optional 800lbs GVWR upgrade. I think GMC now defaults to this higher rating in their 2500s or perhaps it is a local thing? Either way, I think people spend a lot of time discussing that it's due to the leaf vs coil debate. Maybe it's true that our coils aren't rated for the higher weight but it's not because it's a coil. Tanks use coil suspension, so it's not like coil is just overall inferior in terms of weight carrying capability. Now, you may make an argument for sway, which is probably accurate, but you can get upgraded sway bars and unless you're really going crazy I can't imagine it's much of an issue. (cue the "I'm not a lawyer" comment)

One other thing I want to call out in terms of payload. I hear a lot of guys make comments about how you can buy a 3500, and then get softer springs for a better ride, yet those same guys will claim that you can't buy a coil sprung truck and add airbags because they don't up the payload. That argument is accurate in the legal sense, but that is about it I think. Physics is physics, regardless of what the gov says. I don't see how you can use airbags to make a truck sit more level, then claim you've not upped your payload, if someone can explain the physics to me on that I'd love it.

End of the day I've got no doubt that a DRW 3500 can tow better than a SRW 2500. And yes, I'd always like to have more capability than less, but the question becomes at what cost? Do I buy a nice new Peterbilt to make sure I give myself a nice 50% or more safety margin?

I personally plan to add bags for leveling the load and calling it a day. One day in the future if I find I'm towing often enough to justify it and want a larger camper or more trailer capacity I'll jump up to the DRW 3500. The only thing I could see getting me into the 3500 SRW would be if I decide I've just got to have that aisin, but to be honest I can see RAM revamping their SO/HO strategy in the future with a single trans, most likely a ZF, and a single motor.

This ended up being a bit rant-esq but I was really just sharing my thoughts.

The thing is, the ability to tow is not one item, it is a series of components that compliment each other. Updating (bandaging?) one component that makes something feel better is does not increase capacity of the whole system.

 

[gimmie11s]

I've not had the chance to dig deep into this but if I recall correctly most of the Ford SD trucks have lower front axle ratings than our RAMs, and yet both trucks come standard with 10k GVWRs and Ford offers an optional 800lbs GVWR upgrade. I think GMC now defaults to this higher rating in their 2500s or perhaps it is a local thing? Either way, I think people spend a lot of time discussing that it's due to the leaf vs coil debate. Maybe it's true that our coils aren't rated for the higher weight but it's not because it's a coil. Tanks use coil suspension, so it's not like coil is just overall inferior in terms of weight carrying capability. Now, you may make an argument for sway, which is probably accurate, but you can get upgraded sway bars and unless you're really going crazy I can't imagine it's much of an issue. (cue the "I'm not a lawyer" comment)

One other thing I want to call out in terms of payload. I hear a lot of guys make comments about how you can buy a 3500, and then get softer springs for a better ride, yet those same guys will claim that you can't buy a coil sprung truck and add airbags because they don't up the payload. That argument is accurate in the legal sense, but that is about it I think. Physics is physics, regardless of what the gov says. I don't see how you can use airbags to make a truck sit more level, then claim you've not upped your payload, if someone can explain the physics to me on that I'd love it.

End of the day I've got no doubt that a DRW 3500 can tow better than a SRW 2500. And yes, I'd always like to have more capability than less, but the question becomes at what cost? Do I buy a nice new Peterbilt to make sure I give myself a nice 50% or more safety margin?

I personally plan to add bags for leveling the load and calling it a day. One day in the future if I find I'm towing often enough to justify it and want a larger camper or more trailer capacity I'll jump up to the DRW 3500. The only thing I could see getting me into the 3500 SRW would be if I decide I've just got to have that aisin, but to be honest I can see RAM revamping their SO/HO strategy in the future with a single trans, most likely a ZF, and a single motor.

This ended up being a bit rant-esq but I was really just sharing my thoughts.

Have you ever towed with a modern DRW?

 

[UglyViking]

The thing is, the ability to tow is not one item, it is a series of components that compliment each other. Updating (bandaging?) one component that makes something feel better is does not increase capacity of the whole system.

I'm not sure the exact item you're responding to but I agree with you. The difference I'd call out is that the entire frame, brakes, tires, wheels, everything outside the difference between leaf vs coil is the same on both these trucks. So the question comes down to what item is the weakest link in the chain, and by how much. Just for sake of argument, my 2500 has 6k axles front and back if I recall correctly, I believe the front axle has around 5k weight? I think payload is about 2200lbs. I'm trying to do this from memory so the numbers are prob a bit off but close. Anyway, that puts me at 7800 dry, minus the 5k from the front and my drive axle is 2800lbs. That means adding 2200lbs (payload) would put my rear axle at 5k fully loaded, which means a full 1k lbs lighter than max on the rear and roughly the same up front, with a WD hitch that should help offset from of the rear onto the front. Again, my numbers are likely slightly wrong here, this is from memory and back of napkin math.

My point with this is that the numbers don't add up, and if you're not going to put the spring capability as part of the axle rating why have the rating at all? RAM, at least from what I could find, doesn't mention the coil or leaf suspension weight capabilities anywhere, since they don't we are left to question exactly what the max is. Now, considering DOT doesn't care about GVWR from my reading, don't tow professionally so I'm just repeating what I've heard, I don't understand what the issue is?

Additionally, I would find it highly unlikely that FCA didn't build in some headroom for these axle ratings, and GVWRs overall. So, do with that as you wish. My argument here isn't to try and convince anyone what to do or what risks to take or not to take, just to provide a counter argument and especially to note about the airbags/sumosprings/timbrens etc.

I'm also quite a few beers deep at the moment, so I hope this makes sense but please don't hold me to too high a standard on a Sunday evening

 

[RV_Goose]

I'm not sure the exact item you're responding to but I agree with you. The difference I'd call out is that the entire frame, brakes, tires, wheels, everything outside the difference between leaf vs coil is the same on both these trucks. So the question comes down to what item is the weakest link in the chain, and by how much. Just for sake of argument, my 2500 has 6k axles front and back if I recall correctly, I believe the front axle has around 5k weight? I think payload is about 2200lbs. I'm trying to do this from memory so the numbers are prob a bit off but close. Anyway, that puts me at 7800 dry, minus the 5k from the front and my drive axle is 2800lbs. That means adding 2200lbs (payload) would put my rear axle at 5k fully loaded, which means a full 1k lbs lighter than max on the rear and roughly the same up front, with a WD hitch that should help offset from of the rear onto the front. Again, my numbers are likely slightly wrong here, this is from memory and back of napkin math.

My point with this is that the numbers don't add up, and if you're not going to put the spring capability as part of the axle rating why have the rating at all? RAM, at least from what I could find, doesn't mention the coil or leaf suspension weight capabilities anywhere, since they don't we are left to question exactly what the max is. Now, considering DOT doesn't care about GVWR from my reading, don't tow professionally so I'm just repeating what I've heard, I don't understand what the issue is?

Additionally, I would find it highly unlikely that FCA didn't build in some headroom for these axle ratings, and GVWRs overall. So, do with that as you wish. My argument here isn't to try and convince anyone what to do or what risks to take or not to take, just to provide a counter argument and especially to note about the airbags/sumosprings/timbrens etc.

I'm also quite a few beers deep at the moment, so I hope this makes sense but please don't hold me to too high a standard on a Sunday evening

I am just in my phone tonight, so I now gonna look for it. Someone posted the axle manufacturers specs for the axles on the Ram trucks. And they are rated for slightly more than RAM says.

 

[Cseybert]

My son’s 2500 Chevy high country has a 11800# gvwr. Srw.

 

[DougB]

I've not had the chance to dig deep into this but if I recall correctly most of the Ford SD trucks have lower front axle ratings than our RAMs, and yet both trucks come standard with 10k GVWRs and Ford offers an optional 800lbs GVWR upgrade. I think GMC now defaults to this higher rating in their 2500s or perhaps it is a local thing? Either way, I think people spend a lot of time discussing that it's due to the leaf vs coil debate. Maybe it's true that our coils aren't rated for the higher weight but it's not because it's a coil. Tanks use coil suspension, so it's not like coil is just overall inferior in terms of weight carrying capability. Now, you may make an argument for sway, which is probably accurate, but you can get upgraded sway bars and unless you're really going crazy I can't imagine it's much of an issue. (cue the "I'm not a lawyer" comment)

One other thing I want to call out in terms of payload. I hear a lot of guys make comments about how you can buy a 3500, and then get softer springs for a better ride, yet those same guys will claim that you can't buy a coil sprung truck and add airbags because they don't up the payload. That argument is accurate in the legal sense, but that is about it I think. Physics is physics, regardless of what the gov says. I don't see how you can use airbags to make a truck sit more level, then claim you've not upped your payload, if someone can explain the physics to me on that I'd love it.

End of the day I've got no doubt that a DRW 3500 can tow better than a SRW 2500. And yes, I'd always like to have more capability than less, but the question becomes at what cost? Do I buy a nice new Peterbilt to make sure I give myself a nice 50% or more safety margin?

I personally plan to add bags for leveling the load and calling it a day. One day in the future if I find I'm towing often enough to justify it and want a larger camper or more trailer capacity I'll jump up to the DRW 3500. The only thing I could see getting me into the 3500 SRW would be if I decide I've just got to have that aisin, but to be honest I can see RAM revamping their SO/HO strategy in the future with a single trans, most likely a ZF, and a single motor.

This ended up being a bit rant-esq but I was really just sharing my thoughts.

You’re correct. The math is simple that if you add a stiffer spring (or airbag) your true payload capacity is increased. By how much is unknown as there are other components that may limit the actual increase. My opinion on the debate in all this payload chatter is about the legality of increasing it. The sticker cannot be changed by the owner so the legal payload would not change. Only the manufacturer or some shop/outfitter can revise it upwards. I’ve yet to see an example of this or a business named that could/would do it. I’ve not really tried going down that rabbit hole by calling around though.

For me in Texas, I would prefer a truck with 11-12k GVWR so that if I ever towed my buddy’s 14k gooseneck I’d be under the 26,001 class A non-CDL license requirement. I believe I can register a 3500 mega cab as 12,000 since it’s lower than the limit stated from manufacturer (12,300) but I’d need to verify that with TXDOT. I’ve done it with a trailer. I have a car hauler originally titled incorrectly at 8500 GVWR and being over 7500lbs required annual inspection. I was able to retitle it at 7000 without any issue since it was lower than what was originally titled regardless of it being an error. Sooo, I would hope I could do the same with a 3500. Now many would say why give up 300lbsget the Class A endorsement. To each their own. If I ever needed the additional 300lbs of payload or rating then I could retitle at 12,300, in theory, again would have to verify.

For anyone thinking you should only ever tow a 14k gooseneck with a DRW 3500, we’ve been towing this trailer with 2 Jeeps to CO/UT for years now behind a 2006 2500 CCSB on 37s without any issue. It’s bagged, larger sway bar, regeared. Does great with 4 large guys onboard as well. Oh, the stock F-250 we’ve also used has no problem with it. Can’t recall it’s year but I think it was the old 6.0 PS.

If Ram could/would do a 2500 with 10,800 or 11,000, or there about, GVWR with the 6.7, and the ride is still as comfy as it is now, I’d be a buyer. I’d stick with coils tho to avoid any chance at blowing a bag. Could add aftermarket bags as supplement. As it is, I’m likely to go 3500 with air suspension to get the slightly softer ride many claim but have the bags as supplement.

I’m in no rush to get a truck so I’ll keep reading and pondering what I want to ultimately do. I do enjoy the civilized discussions around this.

 

[UglyViking]

I am just in my phone tonight, so I now gonna look for it. Someone posted the axle manufacturers specs for the axles on the Ram trucks. And they are rated for slightly more than RAM says.

Thats interesting but not surprising. Frankly in the sue happy culture we have here I would find it hard to believe that companies are not adding some room for protection.

The axle manufacture likely tests an axle configuration and sees (numbers made up), looks like the axle starts to have failure around the 8k mark, so let's add some safety overhead and mark it a 7k axle. The auto manufacture then does the same thing and marks the 7k axle a 6k to give some amount of safety headroom. While I don't know the numbers or percentage I'd find it hard to believe that this would be shocking to anyone.

My son’s 2500 Chevy high country has a 11800# gvwr. Srw.

Ford has a 10,800 GVWR option on their F250 if I recall correctly. They also have something like 6 different GVWRs but in reality their spring packages are only 3 different springs. It all comes down to marketing. I think that RAM doesn't offer a higher than 10k on the 2500 is solely because it doesn't need to and that can keep costs down by reducing options.

You’re correct. The math is simple that if you add a stiffer spring (or airbag) your true payload capacity is increased. By how much is unknown as there are other components that may limit the actual increase. My opinion on the debate in all this payload chatter is about the legality of increasing it. The sticker cannot be changed by the owner so the legal payload would not change. Only the manufacturer or some shop/outfitter can revise it upwards. I’ve yet to see an example of this or a business named that could/would do it. I’ve not really tried going down that rabbit hole by calling around though.

For me in Texas, I would prefer a truck with 11-12k GVWR so that if I ever towed my buddy’s 14k gooseneck I’d be under the 26,001 class A non-CDL license requirement. I believe I can register a 3500 mega cab as 12,000 since it’s lower than the limit stated from manufacturer (12,300) but I’d need to verify that with TXDOT. I’ve done it with a trailer. I have a car hauler originally titled incorrectly at 8500 GVWR and being over 7500lbs required annual inspection. I was able to retitle it at 7000 without any issue since it was lower than what was originally titled regardless of it being an error. Sooo, I would hope I could do the same with a 3500. Now many would say why give up 300lbsget the Class A endorsement. To each their own. If I ever needed the additional 300lbs of payload or rating then I could retitle at 12,300, in theory, again would have to verify.

For anyone thinking you should only ever tow a 14k gooseneck with a DRW 3500, we’ve been towing this trailer with 2 Jeeps to CO/UT for years now behind a 2006 2500 CCSB on 37s without any issue. It’s bagged, larger sway bar, regeared. Does great with 4 large guys onboard as well. Oh, the stock F-250 we’ve also used has no problem with it. Can’t recall it’s year but I think it was the old 6.0 PS.

If Ram could/would do a 2500 with 10,800 or 11,000, or there about, GVWR with the 6.7, and the ride is still as comfy as it is now, I’d be a buyer. I’d stick with coils tho to avoid any chance at blowing a bag. Could add aftermarket bags as supplement. As it is, I’m likely to go 3500 with air suspension to get the slightly softer ride many claim but have the bags as supplement.

I’m in no rush to get a truck so I’ll keep reading and pondering what I want to ultimately do. I do enjoy the civilized discussions around this.

Just FYI, I believe the 3500 with air suspension isn't the same as the 2500. The 3500 still has leafs and the air is there as a helper. The airbags on the 2500 replace the coils. Def look into it more but I'm not sure it will be the same. I've never driven one so I can't tell you one way or another.

As for legality, I agree but also who enforces it? If you're towing commercially, yes, it's a 100% illegal thing to do. That said, as a non-commercial driver you don't have to even go through weigh stations. Also, from everything I've read there are laws concerning business and once you get past 10k you're into DOT territory as a business. These discussions always seem to muddy the waters between DOT and the commercial side and the non-commercial side.

There is also discussion of safety, being liable, insurance issues, etc. I've yet to find any reports in all these discussions where someone comes on and says "I was sued for being overweight" or "I had x happen to me because I towed overweight". Furthermore, what does overweight actually mean? In certain states you can register your vehicle below the GVWR, so do you then get ticketed if being above the registered number, even if you're safely in the GVWR and axle range? That seems a bit silly.

So, I'll end with, if anyone can point me to more than 1 case where someone was towing over GVWR and got ticketed, tossed in jail, sued, etc. for it I'd love to know. Beyond that I think this all boils down to the issue of risk tolerance, which like everything is different for everyone. I'd never try and push someone to make a risky decision, quite the opposite. That said, I think it's disingenuous to try and point to made up potential issues that no one has ever experienced in a way of justifying their own feelings. (again, point me to a few cases where this has happened and I'm all ears.)

 

[UglyViking]

Have you ever towed with a modern DRW?

I've not, in part because I'm afraid I'd like the stability and want to get one and in part because it's not been necessary.

 

[RV_Goose]

Thats interesting but not surprising. Frankly in the sue happy culture we have here I would find it hard to believe that companies are not adding some room for protection.

The axle manufacture likely tests an axle configuration and sees (numbers made up), looks like the axle starts to have failure around the 8k mark, so let's add some safety overhead and mark it a 7k axle. The auto manufacture then does the same thing and marks the 7k axle a 6k to give some amount of safety headroom. While I don't know the numbers or percentage I'd find it hard to believe that this would be shocking to anyone.


Ford has a 10,800 GVWR option on their F250 if I recall correctly. They also have something like 6 different GVWRs but in reality their spring packages are only 3 different springs. It all comes down to marketing. I think that RAM doesn't offer a higher than 10k on the 2500 is solely because it doesn't need to and that can keep costs down by reducing options.


Just FYI, I believe the 3500 with air suspension isn't the same as the 2500. The 3500 still has leafs and the air is there as a helper. The airbags on the 2500 replace the coils. Def look into it more but I'm not sure it will be the same. I've never driven one so I can't tell you one way or another.

As for legality, I agree but also who enforces it? If you're towing commercially, yes, it's a 100% illegal thing to do. That said, as a non-commercial driver you don't have to even go through weigh stations. Also, from everything I've read there are laws concerning business and once you get past 10k you're into DOT territory as a business. These discussions always seem to muddy the waters between DOT and the commercial side and the non-commercial side.

There is also discussion of safety, being liable, insurance issues, etc. I've yet to find any reports in all these discussions where someone comes on and says "I was sued for being overweight" or "I had x happen to me because I towed overweight". Furthermore, what does overweight actually mean? In certain states you can register your vehicle below the GVWR, so do you then get ticketed if being above the registered number, even if you're safely in the GVWR and axle range? That seems a bit silly.

So, I'll end with, if anyone can point me to more than 1 case where someone was towing over GVWR and got ticketed, tossed in jail, sued, etc. for it I'd love to know. Beyond that I think this all boils down to the issue of risk tolerance, which like everything is different for everyone. I'd never try and push someone to make a risky decision, quite the opposite. That said, I think it's disingenuous to try and point to made up potential issues that no one has ever experienced in a way of justifying their own feelings. (again, point me to a few cases where this has happened and I'm all ears.)

Some state require a non-commercial license for heavier weight trailers. NC states a Non-CDL Class A is required for pulling a trailer over 10,001. A class B for a bus over a certain weight. NC doesn't have an RV exception for weight, only the fuel tax permit is exempted.

Florida says drive what you want as long as it not for commercial use.

 

[UglyViking]

I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of state to state items. NH lets me carry a concealed pistol without any permit, resident or not, one state down and I'd end up in jail for the same action. I trust that everyone can review their owns states information and make a decision. Furthermore, if I travel in NC I'm not required to abide by their requirements, so far as I know that is for intrastate travel of NC residents only.

That said, I feel like we have beaten this horse to death so I'll leave it with this.

2500
Pros:

• Rides softer unloaded
• Generally cheaper to register/insure
• Better suspension for off road (think uneven terrain, fire roads and some rocks, not a dirt road)

Cons:

• Slightly less stable than 3500
• Less payload and towing than 3500
• No HO/Aisin combo

3500
Inverse pro/cons

 

[DougB]

Ford has a 10,800 GVWR option on their F250 if I recall correctly. They also have something like 6 different GVWRs but in reality their spring packages are only 3 different springs. It all comes down to marketing. I think that RAM doesn't offer a higher than 10k on the 2500 is solely because it doesn't need to and that can keep costs down by reducing options.

Yes, Ford does. It's with the High Capacity towing pkg. Ups GCWR from 23.5k to 30k. I just looked at a few 2021 Lariats on the lot and they all had this pkg and payloads were just over 2800lbs. That's 1k more than a similarly equipped 2500 megacab I've been looking into. The megacab has the behind seat storage but aside from that, the rear cabs are similar.

You can even get the 10.8k GVWR with their Tremor off road pkg which I find appealing. They allow their diesel with Tremor as well and its max towing capacity is 15k. Not that a diesel off road is ideal but IMO makes for a decent enough off road vehicle if it can also haul 2600-ish and tow 15k (max).

Just FYI, I believe the 3500 with air suspension isn't the same as the 2500. The 3500 still has leafs and the air is there as a helper. The airbags on the 2500 replace the coils. Def look into it more but I'm not sure it will be the same. I've never driven one so I can't tell you one way or another.

You're correct on both. The leaf pack in the 2500 with air case is softer than the non-air as I believe they removed 1 leaf so unloaded the ride is better than the non-air version. I test drove a 3500 mega cab limited with air and the bumps and transitions are noticeable but well dampened. I think it feels better than my full leaf 2006 2500. 15 years of engineering improvements help as well as new bushings. For a 1 ton the ride was more than acceptable.

My concern with the 2500 air is the bags are your springs. Any issue in that system means you lose your spring or springs. There is no failsafe. For me, that very small risk is not worth the added comfort or convenience so I would stay with the coils and add aftermarket bags to supplement. Many have stated coils are less stable than leafs in towing but I do not have any experience in that.

Beyond that I think this all boils down to the issue of risk tolerance, which like everything is different for everyone. I'd never try and push someone to make a risky decision, quite the opposite. That said, I think it's disingenuous to try and point to made up potential issues that no one has ever experienced in a way of justifying their own feelings. (again, point me to a few cases where this has happened and I'm all ears.)

Well stated.

That said, I feel like we have beaten this horse to death so I'll leave it with this.

2500
Pros:

• Rides softer unloaded
• Generally cheaper to register/insure
• Better suspension for off road (think uneven terrain, fire roads and some rocks, not a dirt road)

Cons:

• Slightly less stable than 3500
• Less payload and towing than 3500
• No HO/Aisin combo

3500
Inverse pro/cons

Good summary.

But if we stop beating, what are we going to do while we either wait for trucks ordered, or wait to pull the trigger on an order?

 

[UglyViking]

haha, I mean gotta do something to pass the time. One thing I'll call about with the bags you mentioned, and forgive me because I'm getting out of my element here, but don't a lot of modern semis have strictly airbags for suspension? Even if a bag blew you'd still have bumpstops so while I'd imaging that would be terrifying and potentially dangerous I think you would would probably be ok. Plus modern airbags are pretty stout.

 

[gimmie11s]

For anyone thinking you should only ever tow a 14k gooseneck with a DRW 3500, we’ve been towing this trailer with 2 Jeeps to CO/UT for years now behind a 2006 2500 CCSB on 37s without any issue. It’s bagged, larger sway bar, regeared. Does great with 4 large guys onboard as well. Oh, the stock F-250 we’ve also used has no problem with it. Can’t recall it’s year but I think it was the old 6.0 PS.

I dont think a DRW is necessary for that load, but it's interesting you essentially converted your 2500 to a 3500 SRW (gears, helper air springs, sway bar) and appear to be happy with it.

It's also worth noting that the coil sprung 2500 Rams are much softer riding than the prior leaf spring 2500 trucks. I towed our 14k lbs 5th wheel with our 2016 coil spring cummins truck (WITH aftermarket air bags to supplement) and the only issue was how soft the suspension was. Truck had plenty of power and stopped very nice, but it felt like a damn boat going around turns.

Just FYI, I believe the 3500 with air suspension isn't the same as the 2500. The 3500 still has leafs and the air is there as a helper. The airbags on the 2500 replace the coils. Def look into it more but I'm not sure it will be the same. I've never driven one so I can't tell you one way or another.

Truth

I've not, in part because I'm afraid I'd like the stability and want to get one and in part because it's not been necessary.

Ha! There ya go. First tow with a modern DRW and you are in heaven. I was completely blown away the first time i hooked up to our 5er with the new truck.

 

[DougB]

haha, I mean gotta do something to pass the time. One thing I'll call about with the bags you mentioned, and forgive me because I'm getting out of my element here, but don't a lot of modern semis have strictly airbags for suspension? Even if a bag blew you'd still have bumpstops so while I'd imaging that would be terrifying and potentially dangerous I think you would would probably be ok. Plus modern airbags are pretty stout.

My buddy made the same argument about the bags. As you said, individual risk tolerance. Is a 2500 on coils with sup air bags comfy enough to warrant eliminating the risk of a blown bag? Heck if I know but if I want to worry about one thing less, then it is. A busted air bag sounds to be less risk than a CP4 going down!

 

[DougB]

I dont think a DRW is necessary for that load, but it's interesting you essentially converted your 2500 to a 3500 SRW (gears, helper air springs, sway bar) and appear to be happy with it.

It my buddy’s truck, actually, and yes he’s super happy with it. Well he was until the 5.9 started giving him problems. He scored a deal on a 2018 just before used prices went batsh*t crazy.

He added the suspension items mainly for a slide in camper but obviously everything helped towing anything else.

It's also worth noting that the coil sprung 2500 Rams are much softer riding than the prior leaf spring 2500 trucks. I towed our 14k lbs 5th wheel with our 2016 coil spring cummins truck (WITH aftermarket air bags to supplement) and the only issue was how soft the suspension was. Truck had plenty of power and stopped very nice, but it felt like a damn boat going around turns.

Oh I don’t doubt that one bit. I think Brutal commented to me a while back a similar opinion. A 3500 with air, and maybe without air, would ride nicer than my stock 2006 2500 Mega 2wd . The harmonics that thing gives off after a jolt when going over a bad RR track are ugly.

 

[RV_Goose]

*snip*
For anyone thinking you should only ever tow a 14k gooseneck with a DRW 3500, we’ve been towing this trailer with 2 Jeeps to CO/UT for years now behind a 2006 2500 CCSB on 37s without any issue. It’s bagged, larger sway bar, regeared. Does great with 4 large guys onboard as well. Oh, the stock F-250 we’ve also used has no problem with it. Can’t recall it’s year but I think it was the old 6.0 PS.
*snip*

The limiting factor for me isn't the gross trailer weight usually. For me, the limitations are the axle loads. Which is why I now have a 3500 DRW, I am sure we will buy a larger trailer and I wanted to replace the 2013 RAM 2500 that had 125k miles. My current trailer put me over 5700 pounds on the rear axle. Still under and fine for that trailer. But not ready for any heavier trailers.

 

[MEGA HO]

Does the air suspension on 2500 really replace (and not supplement) the coil springs?? I know it does on 1500 but not sure about 2500.
The problem with 1500 air suspension was not blown bags, but frozen compressor/air lines for folks living in colder climates.