2022 Hemi vs Diesel Towing advice needed

[Bricknhank]

We’ve got the camping/travel bug. Some might be familiar with my story of me not being happy with how my 1500 Longhorn tows our 8K travel trailer, so I ordered a 6.4 2500 on order since 3/28. For those that come back and say that they tow something of that size comfortably with a 1500, I’m not comfortable with it so that ship has sailed.
The Hemi 2500 on order has a 4.10, rear air suspension, payload of 2920 and towing capacity of 16,650. Order status has been D1 and its anyone’s guess as to when it will be manufactured and shipped. I’m getting impatient so I started looking around and found another Longhorn but it’s a Diesel with a 6 speed and 3.73 gears. I didn’t really want a diesel for every day driving without a trailer but I’m thinking that a diesel in my possession is better than a Hemi 6 months from now. I anticipate that we will move up to a fifth wheel sooner rather than later so my dilemma is that I know that towing capacity of diesels is better than gas but the payloads seem to really suffer. I don’t know what the payload is of the diesel Longhorn that I found (I found it last night and have a call in) but the Ram towing chart shows right around 2,000lbs for diesel payload. Most fifth wheels that I’m looking at have close to 2K pin weight so it doesn’t leave much if any wiggle room where the Hemi on order has around a thousand lb buffer so we don’t have to watch every little thing that’s packed. Then there’s the 8 speed vs 6 speed. Do diesel tower’s find that the 6 speed is adequate? I know, I know that years ago guys only had 3-4 speeds and did just fine. Lastly, I’ve noticed that there appear to be more GMC’s and Chevy diesels on the lots (blasphemy, I know). It could because the Duramax diesel is not as good as the Cummins so they don’t sell as well or because they are manufactured in the US at several plants so numbers and shipping are expedited? So please chime in if I am looking at this wrong.

 

[Grateful Dad]

My advice, don’t get impatient! I know it’s easier said than done but it will pay dividends. Be honest about what you’re really GOING to do and how often. That in itself will make selecting the right truck easy.

What’s the terrain like where you live and where you intend to camp?

How often you gonna go?

How big of a camper do you really want? And will it be a 5’ver?

 

[jebruns]

I take it you are looking at a 2500 diesel? If so, yes, it is kind of the dirty little secret of the 3/4 ton diesel pickup world that they don't have much legal payload. They are more than capable of towing more payload, but because of the game the govt plays, they are rated at 10K pounds. Many, many folks pull large 5th wheel with them. But you are taking a risk of liability if you're involved in an accident with it.

I'd suggest looking for a 3500, considering your long term plans.

 

[Bricknhank]

I take it you are looking at a 2500 diesel? If so, yes, it is kind of the dirty little secret of the 3/4 ton diesel pickup world that they don't have much legal payload. They are more than capable of towing more payload, but because of the game the govt plays, they are rated at 10K pounds. Many, many folks pull large 5th wheel with them. But you are taking a risk of liability if you're involved in an accident with it.

I'd suggest looking for a 3500, considering your long term plans

Yes, only 2500’s. The truck is also my daily driver and I really don’t want to bounce around in a 3500 when not towing.

 

[jebruns]

Yes, only 2500’s. The truck is also my daily driver and I really don’t want to bounce around in a 3500 when not towing.

Yeah, I hear you there. My 2500 Cummins with the air suspension rides very well when unloaded. That is the reason I have a 2500 on order instead of an SRW 3500.

 

[Bricknhank]

My advice, don’t get impatient! I know it’s easier said than done but it will pay dividends. Be honest about what you’re really GOING to do and how often. That in itself will make selecting the right truck easy.

What’s the terrain like where you live and where you intend to camp?

How often you gonna go?

How big of a camper do you really want? And will it be a 5’ver?

Terrain in IL here is relatively flat but we want to travel all over without being restricted. We’re now both retired so we may go in extended trips. I don’t know what is considered often. I suspect we’ll get a 5’ver that’s why I question the tongue weight/payload of a 2500 diesel. Many fifth wheels even smaller ones approach the diesel payload. The gas payload is more than enough for most 5’vers that we would consider. It’s also my daily driver so I don’t want a dually or a 3500.

As far as being patient, the dealer says that RAM knows the manufacturing date with D1 status but they don’t share it with them. I’m not sure that I believe that but have no way to counter that claim with any proof. I’m told by some that production for 2022’s is coming to an end so I also don’t want to be caught with retooling delay and a cost increase of 2023’s.

 

[G’Dave]

@Bricknhank, you don’t mention the wheelbase, but I’m assuming you’ve ordered the short bed?

I have a 2500 Hemi crew cab long bed and live in St. Louis. It’s my daily driver.
The huge advantage of the 8’ bed with Ram HD trucks is the ability to order the 50 gallon tank.

It should be noted that the longer bed and 50 gallon tank will reduce payload by about 350# compared to the same truck with a standard tank and SB.


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[Bricknhank]

@Bricknhank, you don’t mention the wheelbase, but I’m assuming you’ve ordered the short bed?

I have a 2500 Hemi crew cab long bed and live in St. Louis. It’s my daily driver.
The huge advantage of the 8’ bed with Ram HD trucks is the ability to order the 50 gallon tank.

It should be noted that the longer bed and 50 gallon tank will reduce payload by about 350# compared to the same truck with a standard tank and SB.


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Yes, shortbed or what they now call standard bed. I want it to be able to fit in the garage

 

[hunterjoe]

The huge advantage of the 8’ bed with Ram HD trucks is the ability to order the 50 gallon tank.

Can't wait until they figure out a larger tank for the short beds. This 31 is a joke.

 

[jdefoe0424]

We’ve got the camping/travel bug. Some might be familiar with my story of me not being happy with how my 1500 Longhorn tows our 8K travel trailer, so I ordered a 6.4 2500 on order since 3/28. For those that come back and say that they tow something of that size comfortably with a 1500, I’m not comfortable with it so that ship has sailed.
The Hemi 2500 on order has a 4.10, rear air suspension, payload of 2920 and towing capacity of 16,650. Order status has been D1 and its anyone’s guess as to when it will be manufactured and shipped. I’m getting impatient so I started looking around and found another Longhorn but it’s a Diesel with a 6 speed and 3.73 gears. I didn’t really want a diesel for every day driving without a trailer but I’m thinking that a diesel in my possession is better than a Hemi 6 months from now. I anticipate that we will move up to a fifth wheel sooner rather than later so my dilemma is that I know that towing capacity of diesels is better than gas but the payloads seem to really suffer. I don’t know what the payload is of the diesel Longhorn that I found (I found it last night and have a call in) but the Ram towing chart shows right around 2,000lbs for diesel payload. Most fifth wheels that I’m looking at have close to 2K pin weight so it doesn’t leave much if any wiggle room where the Hemi on order has around a thousand lb buffer so we don’t have to watch every little thing that’s packed. Then there’s the 8 speed vs 6 speed. Do diesel tower’s find that the 6 speed is adequate? I know, I know that years ago guys only had 3-4 speeds and did just fine. Lastly, I’ve noticed that there appear to be more GMC’s and Chevy diesels on the lots (blasphemy, I know). It could because the Duramax diesel is not as good as the Cummins so they don’t sell as well or because they are manufactured in the US at several plants so numbers and shipping are expedited? So please chime in if I am looking at this wrong.

If you want to be able to tow a 5th wheel with a 2500, and remain within legal limits...then the Hemi is going to be your best bet with a RAM. As for the other manufacturers, I believe they give the 3/4 ton diesel a bump in GVWR to makeup for the extra weight, but they are leaf spring so ride quality unloaded will not match the RAM. Take a few test drives and see what you like.
As for 3500's I've read that the factory air suspension equipped trucks ride better unloaded, and I've also read that they don't. I don't have any personal experience though.

When looking at pin weight everyone usually says to estimate a loaded pin weight of 20% of the trailers GVWR. Many times those stated pin weights are without batteries, propane, mattress etc. etc.
But in general I believe the "half ton"(LOL) series of 5th wheels out there would be perfect for a 3/4 ton gasser.
Take the VIN from the truck you're looking at and stick it into this WEBSITE. It should give you the actual payload of that specific truck.

I personally would run either a Duramax(GMC) or a Cummins, jury is still out on the 10 speed as it's still pretty new. I wouldn't buy a Cummins unless it had the Aisin or a zf 8 speed(which is supposedly coming sometime...which in RAM speak is whenever they damn well feel like it). I'm not a fan of the Ford or Chevy interiors.

A 2500 gasser will get about the same gas mileage towing and you'll loose 2-3 mpg unloaded(city/burb driving) compared to the 1500. The Diesel would get 10-13ish towing(I think from what I've seen) and would likely be the same or better than your 1500 unloaded.

 

[tchur1]

OP I currently daily drive a 3500 HO and tow 10k-12k pounds a few times a week. I have no issues with ride quality of the 3500, it rides well unloaded once you take the tires down to 55F/50R. I also have no issues with the 6 speed vs an 8 and honestly I prefer it when towing. It doesn't hunt gears and is really good at staying in the proper RPM range so you have solid throttle response and power as needed. It also control the load when going downhill really well.

I wouldn't worry a TON about the 2500 diesel payload, legally you will be close or exceeding payload but if you look at the individual axel rating on a 2500 you're probably closer to 3k in payload. A 2500 would be more than capable for most 5ers but you have to be comfortable knowing you're over your "legal" payload.

If I were you, id get a 3500 diesel since you are thinking 5er in the future anyway, but Im also a random guy on the internet telling you how to spend your money haha.

 

[Ickabod]

I would honestly wait for your Hemi to be built. I have a 2022 limited hemi and I tow our 7k boat. I can hardly notice it being pulled behind us. I also drive the 2500 as my daily driver and it is a great ride with the rear air suspension. We do plan on getting a 9k travel trailer and wanted to be safe with the payload.

 

[mkmsr]

If you are already thinking you are going to move up to a 5th wheel I would cancel that 2500 order and go 3500. My gas 3500/4:10 has a payload of 4006 lbs. That 2500 diesel l will be approx 900 lbs less of payload than the gasser you ordered. Also my 3500 gas was on the lot in 60 day of ordering, but I didn't order a bunch of fancy hi-tech stuff that was known to cause delays. Don't get impatient.

 

[gimmie11s]

Yes, only 2500’s. The truck is also my daily driver and I really don’t want to bounce around in a 3500 when not towing.

The 2500 rides better than a 3500 due to the coil springs, but the coil springs are less confidence inspiring while towing heavy loads.

Ive owned both and will say the improved ride quality of the 2500 is not enough to make me not want the added capability and towing stability of the 3500.

If you plan to buy a decently sized 5th wheel in the future (30 foot or greater) -- do not buy a gas truck and do not buy a 3/4 ton.

 

[PD Luke]

If you want to be able to tow a 5th wheel with a 2500, and remain within legal limits...then the Hemi is going to be your best bet with a RAM. As for the other manufacturers, I believe they give the 3/4 ton diesel a bump in GVWR to makeup for the extra weight, but they are leaf spring so ride quality unloaded will not match the RAM. Take a few test drives and see what you like.
As for 3500's I've read that the factory air suspension equipped trucks ride better unloaded, and I've also read that they don't. I don't have any personal experience though.

When looking at pin weight everyone usually says to estimate a loaded pin weight of 20% of the trailers GVWR. Many times those stated pin weights are without batteries, propane, mattress etc. etc.
But in general I believe the "half ton"(LOL) series of 5th wheels out there would be perfect for a 3/4 ton gasser.
Take the VIN from the truck you're looking at and stick it into this WEBSITE. It should give you the actual payload of that specific truck.

I personally would run either a Duramax(GMC) or a Cummins, jury is still out on the 10 speed as it's still pretty new. I wouldn't buy a Cummins unless it had the Aisin or a zf 8 speed(which is supposedly coming sometime...which in RAM speak is whenever they damn well feel like it). I'm not a fan of the Ford or Chevy interiors.

A 2500 gasser will get about the same gas mileage towing and you'll loose 2-3 mpg unloaded(city/burb driving) compared to the 1500. The Diesel would get 10-13ish towing(I think from what I've seen) and would likely be the same or better than your 1500 unloaded.

Our 2022 3500 SRW HO with air suspension rides way better than our 2013 2500. In fact it rides so well my wife has on several occasions decided she needs to take the truck to work because it fun to drive. So it's almost daily driver quality ride.

Regarding payload, the door tag says 4026 lb but fully loaded with fuel, stuff and our family of 4 we are comfortably at 2800 lb payload. If we add a 5th wheel hitch we'll be down to 2500-2600 lb. So for the OP, my vote is 3500 if you even the slightest thought of getting a 5th wheel.

 

[Bricknhank]

Guy’s, Thank you very much for all of the suggestions. I got impatient and a GMC dealer very close to me received a used 2022 GMC Sierra 2500 SLT with a Duramax Diesel with 8K miles that I couldn’t pass up. It was a specs/numbers/bird in the hand situation pure and simple. Payload of 3213lbs and towing capacity of 18,500lbs. The Duramax has 445hp and 910 lbs or torque. My RAM wasn’t being assembled and I’ve been reading horror stories about trucks sitting on trains for extended periods and even a train load of trucks shipped to the Midwest without the keys (intentional no doubt). I want to enjoy the rest of the summer comfortably pulling our trailer without worrying about any big hills coming up or should we try to find a way not to fill the fresh water tank until we get to our destination. I absolutely loved my 1500 Longhorn but it was purchased before we were ever considering pulling a trailer and the towing capacity combined with (or because of) the 3.21 gear just didn’t make for a worry free comfortable towing experience. Now we can load anything we want into the truck and trailer without any weight worries. I suspect that someone is going to tell me that the Cummins is a better diesel than the GMC Duramax and they may be correct, I don’t know. Heavy Duty trucks are just near impossible to get so I made the decision on this GMC while it was available. The Longhorn interior is still much better IMO than the GMC. Thank you for all of the suggestions? I’m going to miss my Longhorn.

 

[jebruns]

Good for you! Glad you are going to be able to enjoy you new truck right away. I've had the Duramax. Great motor, IMO.

The reason I don't look at Ford or GM is the lack of my "must have". MegaCab, Ramboxes, 2 speed exhaust brake, etc.

 

[Bricknhank]

Good for you! Glad you are going to be able to enjoy you new truck right away. I've had the Duramax. Great motor, IMO.

The reason I don't look at Ford or GM is the lack of my "must have". MegaCab, Ramboxes, 2 speed exhaust brake, etc.

I looked at the Fords and possibly would have ordered one with a 7.3 gas but they’re so tall it was borderline whether it would fit in my garage. And I actually found one on the lot and measured it. It was too close for comfort. I’m set now though. Thank you.


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[Grateful Dad]

Guy’s, Thank you very much for all of the suggestions. I got impatient and a GMC dealer very close to me received a used 2022 GMC Sierra 2500 SLT with a Duramax Diesel with 8K miles that I couldn’t pass up. It was a specs/numbers/bird in the hand situation pure and simple. Payload of 3213lbs and towing capacity of 18,500lbs. The Duramax has 445hp and 910 lbs or torque. My RAM wasn’t being assembled and I’ve been reading horror stories about trucks sitting on trains for extended periods and even a train load of trucks shipped to the Midwest without the keys (intentional no doubt). I want to enjoy the rest of the summer comfortably pulling our trailer without worrying about any big hills coming up or should we try to find a way not to fill the fresh water tank until we get to our destination. I absolutely loved my 1500 Longhorn but it was purchased before we were ever considering pulling a trailer and the towing capacity combined with (or because of) the 3.21 gear just didn’t make for a worry free comfortable towing experience. Now we can load anything we want into the truck and trailer without any weight worries. I suspect that someone is going to tell me that the Cummins is a better diesel than the GMC Duramax and they may be correct, I don’t know. Heavy Duty trucks are just near impossible to get so I made the decision on this GMC while it was available. The Longhorn interior is still much better IMO than the GMC. Thank you for all of the suggestions? I’m going to miss my Longhorn.

Just out of curiosity, what is the GVWR on the sticker. That kind of payload is awesome for a 2500 diesel……….I’m thinking it’s got to be over 10k. I ask because my buddy has a 2020 GMC with the x31 package, his payload is less than 1,700 lbs (and I thought Rams were the worst).

And good on you for finding a truck that fits your needs, enjoy the summer!

 

[Redfour5]

We’ve got the camping/travel bug. Some might be familiar with my story of me not being happy with how my 1500 Longhorn tows our 8K travel trailer, so I ordered a 6.4 2500 on order since 3/28. For those that come back and say that they tow something of that size comfortably with a 1500, I’m not comfortable with it so that ship has sailed.
The Hemi 2500 on order has a 4.10, rear air suspension, payload of 2920 and towing capacity of 16,650. Order status has been D1 and its anyone’s guess as to when it will be manufactured and shipped. I’m getting impatient so I started looking around and found another Longhorn but it’s a Diesel with a 6 speed and 3.73 gears. I didn’t really want a diesel for every day driving without a trailer but I’m thinking that a diesel in my possession is better than a Hemi 6 months from now. I anticipate that we will move up to a fifth wheel sooner rather than later so my dilemma is that I know that towing capacity of diesels is better than gas but the payloads seem to really suffer. I don’t know what the payload is of the diesel Longhorn that I found (I found it last night and have a call in) but the Ram towing chart shows right around 2,000lbs for diesel payload. Most fifth wheels that I’m looking at have close to 2K pin weight so it doesn’t leave much if any wiggle room where the Hemi on order has around a thousand lb buffer so we don’t have to watch every little thing that’s packed. Then there’s the 8 speed vs 6 speed. Do diesel tower’s find that the 6 speed is adequate? I know, I know that years ago guys only had 3-4 speeds and did just fine. Lastly, I’ve noticed that there appear to be more GMC’s and Chevy diesels on the lots (blasphemy, I know). It could because the Duramax diesel is not as good as the Cummins so they don’t sell as well or because they are manufactured in the US at several plants so numbers and shipping are expedited? So please chime in if I am looking at this wrong.

I have a 7K loaded 875 tongue TT and felt the same about my 1500. I got a 2500 Hemi with 15K capacity 3K payload and the truck is now in control. The 1500 never allowed you to forget. I waited until the 8 speed and it makes a big difference. I will put 10K a year on it mostly towing. I love the ease of maintenance and 4K rpms going over a mountain is what it is designed to do. It's NOT screaming and for the first time in my life I pay zero attention to payload.