Ritchie_Rich
Active Member
Respectfully disagree.
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2022 2500 Body Roll
- Thread starter Timstrack
- Start date
johnmyster
Well-Known Member
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Suspension squirm of the 2500 heavily loaded is a thing. You've made it worse using flotation tires. 3500 (leafs) will track better with stout pin weight in place. Anything else is a band-aid. Airbags and max sidewall tire pressure will get you there for occasional use if you have realistic expectations, but your 6000 pound RAWR is there for a reason. It takes what, eight or ten rubber bushings to locate an axle under a four link truck. Two with leaf springs.
You've put a 40+ foot windsail behind a short 150" wheelbase truck. You're debatably in DRW territory.
Sumos and timbrens are for people that like to bypass suspension and ride on bump stops. Not an optimal solution but marketed towards the quick and easy aesthetics crowd.
Flamesuit on for the "I've towed bigger, shouldn't be a problem, axle ratings are just a number" fanbois.
You've put a 40+ foot windsail behind a short 150" wheelbase truck. You're debatably in DRW territory.
Sumos and timbrens are for people that like to bypass suspension and ride on bump stops. Not an optimal solution but marketed towards the quick and easy aesthetics crowd.
Flamesuit on for the "I've towed bigger, shouldn't be a problem, axle ratings are just a number" fanbois.
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Which one specifically is invalid, or all of them?
I'll add "Those tires."
Everyone has their input and opinion, you provided yours as did I. Don't feel compelled to post your disagreement with every other poster on theirs.
The OP is interested in recommended solutions, not anecdotal evidence that someone else is towing the same setup. They are never likely to be identical.
H3LZSN1P3R
You're doing it wrong
your assumption that less bushings make a 3500 better is skewed the location of the factory coils vs the Leafs creates the biggest issue that aftermarket air bags help correct.
Newer semi trucks ride and preform way better since ditching leaf springs and going to 4link and airbag systems. I get that that is obviously a larger scale but it still proves a point that the 4 link is not the issue.
johnmyster
Well-Known Member
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Since you removed this part:
2) Load rating is not the singular factor determining how a tire drives/tracks. I didn't question load rating. Load rating is not a force vs displacement coefficient.
OP noted 35" tires and I thought I noticed a 35xXX.XR20LT flotation designation in post #13. That said, the photo isn't great, I could be mistaken. If it's an LT-Metric size, then the following is irrelevant. But I'm pretty sure that photo shows a flotation designation, so it was in fact, not an assumption.
My source information is dated, as he (my father) retired from the tire plant 8 years ago...but at that time, a particular tire (BFG K02 to be specific) had differing construction in flotation designated sizes vs the otherwise equivalent metric size. Same name, same tread pattern, same diameter. The "flotation" sizes used construction intended to better distribute load across a larger contact patch (for off road traction) resulting in different driving character (generally less desirable) on road. Flotation tires were not just a different system of measurement but for that particular brand/product, indicated different end goals leading to a different method of construction.
And while I don't have firsthand knowledge about Nitto's designs, I know of one example in the last decade that illustrates the difference. Not all tires of a given diameter are intended to handle the same. Flotation vs LT-metric is one indication, ergo, my suggestion vis-a-vis tires...which has very little to do with rated load capacity.
If the assertion is that wider placement is better then sure. Very few airbag kits are outboard and only some of those are separately plumbed.
Flexy tires, flexy suspension, heavy load, riding on sumo flexy bumpstops...giant 5er with billboard windsail surfaces. 2500 apologists unite.
1) To be correct, you don't actually have 35" flotation tires. You have 35" tall metric LT tires on your truck.
2) Load rating is not the singular factor determining how a tire drives/tracks. I didn't question load rating. Load rating is not a force vs displacement coefficient.
OP noted 35" tires and I thought I noticed a 35xXX.XR20LT flotation designation in post #13. That said, the photo isn't great, I could be mistaken. If it's an LT-Metric size, then the following is irrelevant. But I'm pretty sure that photo shows a flotation designation, so it was in fact, not an assumption.
My source information is dated, as he (my father) retired from the tire plant 8 years ago...but at that time, a particular tire (BFG K02 to be specific) had differing construction in flotation designated sizes vs the otherwise equivalent metric size. Same name, same tread pattern, same diameter. The "flotation" sizes used construction intended to better distribute load across a larger contact patch (for off road traction) resulting in different driving character (generally less desirable) on road. Flotation tires were not just a different system of measurement but for that particular brand/product, indicated different end goals leading to a different method of construction.
And while I don't have firsthand knowledge about Nitto's designs, I know of one example in the last decade that illustrates the difference. Not all tires of a given diameter are intended to handle the same. Flotation vs LT-metric is one indication, ergo, my suggestion vis-a-vis tires...which has very little to do with rated load capacity.
The principle is fewer parts with flex means less flex. Other factors being equal, the flex is additive WRT axle-vs-frame position. Ten bushings that all need to show up to work.
If the assertion is that wider placement is better then sure. Very few airbag kits are outboard and only some of those are separately plumbed.
If designed for the job, sure. The 4 link in your truck was designed to be 6k rawr. I wasn't pointing to all 4-links. I was pointing specifically to the 4-link in a ram 2500, which was designed within a performance envelope (as all things are.) Ram has yet to implement 4-link above 3/4 ton (6k rawr). I've got one guess why.
Flexy tires, flexy suspension, heavy load, riding on sumo flexy bumpstops...giant 5er with billboard windsail surfaces. 2500 apologists unite.
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It’s not sway, that I can handle. If you have ever been in a bass boat or fishing boat and are traveling across the water there is a term called chiming, this where the boat rocks left to right and if you don’t slow down the boat will flip, think about this pulling a 40ft, 14,000lb fifth wheel, definitely will make you pucker, lol
I did exactly what you mentioned, I bought a 2024 Ram 3500 Laramie long box with the fifth wheel/gooseneck prep kit, it was either this or a smaller fifth wheel and the wife is not allowing that. Where I’m not excited about having to park it outside instead of my garage and no longer being able to go through the carwash and probably most driver throughs, safety comes before ego.
Never had an issue with my CCLB getting through any of these.
Ritchie_Rich
Active Member
Then something must be wrong with your setup. I’ve never experienced that pulling a fifth wheel or tongue pull trailer.
Do you have the factory 4x4 off road package, mine does and that has a factory lift kit on it and it’s the 6’4” bed, I also put 35’s on it which I’m sure didn’t help. My payload capacity is listed at 2,063 lbs and my hitch weight is 2,950. Every time I have pulled the 5th wheel I have experienced body roll at some point on my journey but after a while it goes away, there is not particular reason I can find as far as cross winds or surface type that would cause this, I only know you have to use the trailer brake to stop the body roll because if not, once the rhythm has started it just gets worse unless you slow down to 60 or below. I put the 5,000 lb sumo springs on it and where they helped, when the camper is attached, the ride is very harsh.
H3LZSN1P3R
You're doing it wrong
There is no “factory lift kit” and I have the offroad pkg with no issues. I agree the 3500 is better for this setup but your issue is likely not “body roll” it likely wind wag or similar. The only way you can really get body roll is if you have a single pivot hitch
You are correct, I was under the impression the off road kit did have a lift on it. Either way, I’m either over my hitch limit or right at the maximum hitch weight limit this truck was designed for. Based on conversation with my Ram advisor, depending on the configuration of the truck, the hitch weight is between 10 to 15% of the total towing capacity which is 20,000 lbs, so that would give me 2,000 to 3,500 lbs of total hitch weight and my hitch weight is 2,950 lbs unloaded, so my truck is not the right rig for my camper. Going to a 3500 was not something I was wanting to do, especially a dually, but I cannot find a 3500 srw 6.4 bed with the 5th wheel/gooseneck prep kit, not even a brand new one and the dealer searched a 250 mile radius. Everyone on this thread has been extremely nice and respectful and I appreciate that.
Ritchie_Rich
Active Member
You are over payload rating by almost 1k. That certainly isn’t helping things.
H3LZSN1P3R
You're doing it wrong
Payload means nothing it is purely for registration only.
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Yep, and tomorrow I pick up my 2024 Ram 3500 so this will cure my problem, lol.
Your advisor should study better.
TT weight is 10-15%.
5th wheel pin weight is generally on the order of 20-22%. Toyhaulers can be lighter with a heavy load in the garage.
a 14K GVWR fifth wheel is going to be 2800-3200 lbs or more pin weight wet ready to roll. If the RV maker spec'd 2950 dry, they're doing better than most.
Add your payload (people, gear, hitch; IOW anything you add to the truck) AND the pin weight. You're likely at or over the RAWR on that 2500 truck and as @johnmyster has pointed out, running inflation tires. Running over payload/GVWR may be OK with many, but running over RAWR is never advisable.
Didn't see Dually mentioned in your carwarsh/drive-thru comment, so yea, that's out. I drive an SRW CC long bed.
3500 dooley will 1000% fix your problem. Did you get it with rear air? Does it have the HO? Love mine (but it's an SRW).
No HO, not easy to find in my area and finding a single rear wheel with the options I wanted and having the gooseneck/5th wheel prep kit was like finding a unicorn. It will be a learning curve going to a much bigger truck and I’ll have to break out the car wash bucket as this will become a manual process.