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2018 Ram 2500 6.4 hemi thermostat issues

I just had one of these trucks come into the shop with an overheating problem- New thermostat running 230 degrees with a upper rad hose temp of 130. So the thermostat was junk and i went to buy a good Mopar thermostat to replace it and be done with it. Well, to my surprise, in the Mopar box was a MotoRad thermostat :/ THe customer wanted cooler temps for towing and around town so what i did was have the water pump machined to fit a 5.7 thermostat and purchased a 180 degree 5.7 thermostat and housing. In order to avoid the inevitable electronic thermostat unplugged DTC, I installed a 16ohm 25watt load resistor into the electronic thermostat circuit tricking the PCM to think that it's pencil heater is still there. The result is a 6.4 running between 185 and 190 even at extended full throttle. Pretty nice mod and what i would do if I had one of these trucks. The electronic thermostat is unreliable too complicated and runs the engine too hot IMHO.
Man I'm not as tech savvy as you but it sounds like your damn sure on to something here. So I'm assuming the water pump bore needs to be filed down or opened up more to accommodate a 5.7 thermostat and simply wire a load resistor to the ends of the pencil heater wires?? Can the water pump be filed down with and end grinder or dremmel bit? Then order a 180° thermostat? Man I'm definitely going to research this for my truck. I like the truck but hate the temps it runs at.
 
If I understand how the electric portion of the thermostat works it isn't actually electrically moving the stat. It is a heater element that is capable of working the wax in the stat when the computer decides it wants it - much faster than the wax on its own. Basically if the ECU detects extra load it can start the process before the hot coolant would even get to the wax in the stat.

From the service manual

"An electrically assisted diaphragm-type thermostat controls the operating temperature of the engine by controlling the amount of coolant flow to the radiator. The thermostat is located inside of the thermostat housing. On all engines the thermostat begins to open at approximately 88°C (190°F) to allow flow to the radiator. The thermostat is fully open by approximately 100â?°C (212â?°F). An electrically assisted thermostat provides broader and faster operation than traditional thermostats, In addition to the mechanical function of the wax sensing element, electrically assisted thermostats incorporate an electric heater within the sensing element. This heater is controlled by the PCM, which receives information on the speed and load conditions of the engine. It uses this information to regulate the temperature of the coolant. Mapped data (lookup table) is stored within the PCM to govern when and how heat is added to ensure optimum engine performance.

In standard operation, an electrically assisted thermostat functions in the same manner as a conventional thermostat only at a higher engine temperature. coolant flows around the wax of the thermal expansion sensing element. As the temperature rises, the expansion material melts, increasing in size and moving a piston, which in turn increases the flow volume of the coolant. If the temperature drops, a spring pushes the piston back to its starting position, reducing the flow rate of the coolant or closing the coolant circuit altogether. When under a sudden, heavy load, an additional heat source comes into play with the map-controlled thermostat. Once the conditions of the stored operating map have been fulfilled, a heating element integrated in the expansion material is enabled by the engine management system. This additional heat source allows the wax to expand quicker, opening the thermostat fully regardless of actual coolant temperature, so the coolant flow is increased, immediately allowing the engine to operate within the optimum temperature range without danger of overheating."
 
Man I'm not as tech savvy as you but it sounds like your damn sure on to something here. So I'm assuming the water pump bore needs to be filed down or opened up more to accommodate a 5.7 thermostat and simply wire a load resistor to the ends of the pencil heater wires?? Can the water pump be filed down with and end grinder or dremmel bit? Then order a 180° thermostat? Man I'm definitely going to research this for my truck. I like the truck but hate the temps it runs at.
I took it to an engine machine shop to have the groove perfectly cut in. I took in a 5.7 hemi water pump so they had something to go off of. I tried to fit the 5.7 pump to the 6.4 and it almost worked. There was a small 1 inch section where that gasket didn't meet the sealing surface on the timing cover. So then i thought about swapping the timing cover, but it would mean re routing some cooling hoses and deleting the EGR. So I found that it was most cost effective to have a water pump customized to fit the good old mechanical thermostat- then you have many options on what heat range you want to run. I was thinking of putting together a kit maybe...
 
If I understand how the electric portion of the thermostat works it isn't actually electrically moving the stat. It is a heater element that is capable of working the wax in the stat when the computer decides it wants it - much faster than the wax on its own. Basically if the ECU detects extra load it can start the process before the hot coolant would even get to the wax in the stat.

From the service manual

"An electrically assisted diaphragm-type thermostat controls the operating temperature of the engine by controlling the amount of coolant flow to the radiator. The thermostat is located inside of the thermostat housing. On all engines the thermostat begins to open at approximately 88°C (190°F) to allow flow to the radiator. The thermostat is fully open by approximately 100â?°C (212â?°F). An electrically assisted thermostat provides broader and faster operation than traditional thermostats, In addition to the mechanical function of the wax sensing element, electrically assisted thermostats incorporate an electric heater within the sensing element. This heater is controlled by the PCM, which receives information on the speed and load conditions of the engine. It uses this information to regulate the temperature of the coolant. Mapped data (lookup table) is stored within the PCM to govern when and how heat is added to ensure optimum engine performance.

In standard operation, an electrically assisted thermostat functions in the same manner as a conventional thermostat only at a higher engine temperature. coolant flows around the wax of the thermal expansion sensing element. As the temperature rises, the expansion material melts, increasing in size and moving a piston, which in turn increases the flow volume of the coolant. If the temperature drops, a spring pushes the piston back to its starting position, reducing the flow rate of the coolant or closing the coolant circuit altogether. When under a sudden, heavy load, an additional heat source comes into play with the map-controlled thermostat. Once the conditions of the stored operating map have been fulfilled, a heating element integrated in the expansion material is enabled by the engine management system. This additional heat source allows the wax to expand quicker, opening the thermostat fully regardless of actual coolant temperature, so the coolant flow is increased, immediately allowing the engine to operate within the Yeah, optimum temperature range without danger of overheating."

Yeah, Looks good on paper, but it's just too complicated to be reliable in the long run and you can't customize it to suit your needs like a regular old t-stat. THis added complexity makes it near impossible to bench test a thermostat as well. I'm sure all this is is just more crap that you really don't need for a good running reliable truck. THe other problem is that the origionl Mopar thermostats are all gone and now your only choice is cheap Chinese parts. Complicated, reliable, and Chinese and not things that go together well... At least with the 5.7 conversion you can get a quality t-stat that will last a very long time and not leave you with a locked up engine when you are pulling a grade and not watching tha gauge and the complicated Chinese thermostat decides not to open. Being that the origional likes to run the engine at 230 degrees, that doesn't give you alot of head room to correct the problem or react accordingly before major engine damage. IMO
 
What does running cooler do to the ECM controlled fan operation?

On the 03+ Cummins if you change the thermostat temp then the cooling fan won’t operate properly, without tuning. I’m not sure if that applies to the Hemi or not.
 
I’m not sure what anyone is hoping to accomplish by running the engine cooler. If the engineers thought there was any benefit to it running cooler than it does then they’d have designed it that way. There’s certainly no cost savings for them with the factory method.
 
What does running cooler do to the ECM controlled fan operation?

On the 03+ Cummins if you change the thermostat temp then the cooling fan won’t operate properly, without tuning. I’m not sure if that applies to the Hemi or not.
Fan doesn't turn on until 230 F coolant temperature. It's main function is as a condenser fan so the A/C works well when stopped in traffic. The engine cooling relies mainly on the mechanical clutch driven fan. These can be adjusted by trimming and bending the copper coil on the front of the fan if needed. The tighter you make the spring, the earlier the clutch will engage with heat. The electric fan parameters can be modified with HpTuners to come on and go off whenever you want as well.
 
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Yeah, Looks good on paper, but it's just too complicated to be reliable in the long run and you can't customize it to suit your needs like a regular old t-stat. THis added complexity makes it near impossible to bench test a thermostat as well. I'm sure all this is is just more crap that you really don't need for a good running reliable truck. THe other problem is that the origionl Mopar thermostats are all gone and now your only choice is cheap Chinese parts. Complicated, reliable, and Chinese and not things that go together well... At least with the 5.7 conversion you can get a quality t-stat that will last a very long time and not leave you with a locked up engine when you are pulling a grade and not watching tha gauge and the complicated Chinese thermostat decides not to open. Being that the origional likes to run the engine at 230 degrees, that doesn't give you alot of head room to correct the problem or react accordingly before major engine damage. IMO
Its not complicated at all - its just a heater that allows the engine to open the t-stat quicker. You should still be able to bench test the t-stat just like any other as it still has its closed/starting to open/full open temps (although I haven't bench tested a t-stat in years... case in point your diagnosis of a cold upper hose with the engine at operating temp. thats your bench test right there). The stat will still open and close by itself regardless if the electronics are working or not.

Yeah they run hotter than what is considered "normal" but everything else is built for it and much of the engineering process and engine control orbit things like coolant temp. There's also many many many of these things out there in the real world towing heavy and working hard every day and nobody ever complains about the cooling system. If all you had was a dummy gauge would people even care what the actual readout says? Probably not.

Doesn't seem like anything is simplified when you're having to literally machine a part from another engine to make things work....

Again all of this talk about too hot and getting it to run cooler seems like solutions to a non-existent problem.
 
Its not complicated at all - its just a heater that allows the engine to open the t-stat quicker. You should still be able to bench test the t-stat just like any other as it still has its closed/starting to open/full open temps (although I haven't bench tested a t-stat in years... case in point your diagnosis of a cold upper hose with the engine at operating temp. thats your bench test right there). The stat will still open and close by itself regardless if the electronics are working or not.

Yeah they run hotter than what is considered "normal" but everything else is built for it and much of the engineering process and engine control orbit things like coolant temp. There's also many many many of these things out there in the real world towing heavy and working hard every day and nobody ever complains about the cooling system. If all you had was a dummy gauge would people even care what the actual readout says? Probably not.

Doesn't seem like anything is simplified when you're having to literally machine a part from another engine to make things work....

Again all of this talk about too hot and getting it to run cooler seems like solutions to a non-existent problem.

When I tow the boats and trailers around here, the most mountainous state in the nation, outside temps are as high as 115+ regularly especially when in the Colorado River country.…~120 there sometimes. While this truck seems to run hotter engine/oil temps than previous, there are no wide swings in oil, engine or tranny temps like the others…the tranny runs super cool vs the Ford I had last.
After I got used to the engine temps all is extremely uneventful, one of the few things I dig about this truck.
 
When I tow the boats and trailers around here, the most mountainous state in the nation, outside temps are as high as 115+ regularly especially when in the Colorado River country.…~120 there sometimes. While this truck seems to run hotter engine/oil temps than previous, there are no wide swings in oil, engine or tranny temps like the others…the tranny runs super cool vs the Ford I had last.
After I got used to the engine temps all is extremely uneventful, one of the few things I dig about this truck.
Exactly. Everything is well under control.
 
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