2022 2500 Ram ticking - Cummins SO

[usernamechecksout]

do you run 10w30 or 5w40

 

[Dalluge26]

5w40 this change. I was running 10w30 when the lifters failed the first time.

 

[Dalluge26]

45k miles at this point. So far we have changed out the following
-idler pulley
-water pump
-fan assembly
-belt tensioner
-lifters and camshaft.

This truck is gone before the 100k mile is up.

 

[Dalluge26]

What oil do you run? Do the oil change yourself? Do you prefill the filter?

Mine has an infrequent tick and I'm debating just going with the flat tappet conversion to fix it permanently...

5w40 this change. I’ve changed the oil as well as the dealer.
I prefill the filter as well.

 

[AH64ID]

I prefill the filter as well.

Not sure how you prefill the filter, but you should only prefill thru the outside holes. When you prefill the center hole all that oil, and it’s contaminants, will go thru the block unfiltered.

Virgin oil is not that clean.

 

[Dalluge26]

Not sure how you prefill the filter, but you should only prefill thru the outside holes. When you prefill the center hole all that oil, and it’s contaminants, will go thru the block unfiltered.

Virgin oil is not that clean.

That’s exactly how I do it.

 

[Riddick]

Not sure how you prefill the filter, but you should only prefill thru the outside holes. When you prefill the center hole all that oil, and it’s contaminants, will go thru the block unfiltered.

Virgin oil is not that clean.

Do you happen to have any data supporting this. I recently came across a YT video in which they did a pretty good comparison on this exact subject. I get this is a YT video but the poster is credible based off his previous jobs and he appears to be pretty knowledgeable on this topic.

I may be one of the few on this but I always and have always prefilled my filter and I personally believe by not pre filling you are increasing your chances of damaging your cam/lifters. On the engines I have built I always do a prime on the oil system before cranking, having all the oil passages filled with oil makes a huge difference on first starts. I do understand our oil pumps move a great volume of oil in a short time. However, it only takes seconds for damage to occur and our filters are not small by any means and hold a descent amount of oil. There have been several posters on here claim they start to hear a tick right after an oil change when leaving the dealer, has anyone on here had a tick begin when they prefilled the oil filter? To dive a little deeper on this how can an oil change cause a tick? The only change I can think of is the minimal loss in oil pressure on initial start up as the oil filter fills. Our lifters are already poorly designed as is, for me id like to keep a constant supply of oil going to them at all times.

 

[AH64ID]

Do you happen to have any data supporting this. I recently came across a YT video in which they did a pretty good comparison on this exact subject. I get this is a YT video but the poster is credible based off his previous jobs and he appears to be pretty knowledgeable on this topic.

I may be one of the few on this but I always and have always prefilled my filter and I personally believe by not pre filling you are increasing your chances of damaging your cam/lifters. On the engines I have built I always do a prime on the oil system before cranking, having all the oil passages filled with oil makes a huge difference on first starts. I do understand our oil pumps move a great volume of oil in a short time. However, it only takes seconds for damage to occur and our filters are not small by any means and hold a descent amount of oil. There have been several posters on here claim they start to hear a tick right after an oil change when leaving the dealer, has anyone on here had a tick begin when they prefilled the oil filter? To dive a little deeper on this how can an oil change cause a tick? The only change I can think of is the minimal loss in oil pressure on initial start up as the oil filter fills. Our lifters are already poorly designed as is, for me id like to keep a constant supply of oil going to them at all times.

Only data I have is that the filters flow outside in, and the virgin oil analysis data I saw many years ago showed oil that was far dirtier than I wanted flowing thru my engine. I haven’t kept up on it since there isn’t much need to, IMHO. It costs money to filter virgin oil at the factory, so why would oil manufactures do that when it will get filtered on the engine.

I agree on a new build that building pressure before firing the engine is critical, but at an oil change we aren’t working with a new build. The residual oil from the previous shutdown is what lubes the engine at startup.

I don’t pre-fill my filters at all. I’m not the least bit concerned about initial lubrication and the filter fills fast and build pressure fast. On my 05 I had an aftermarket oil pressure gauge in the cam journal port above the ECM. With a dry filter the engine would build idle pressure after an oil change (my annual changes are usually in September) similar to a cold start in 20-30° temps, and faster than the truck sitting for 4 weeks. It’s all fast, so I don’t bother with the hassle of prefilling the filter. Nothing wrong with properly prefilling it, I just don’t find it necessary. Think of all the engines you can’t pre-fill due to horizontal or inverted filters, or cartridge filters.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Do you happen to have any data supporting this. I recently came across a YT video in which they did a pretty good comparison on this exact subject. I get this is a YT video but the poster is credible based off his previous jobs and he appears to be pretty knowledgeable on this topic.

I may be one of the few on this but I always and have always prefilled my filter and I personally believe by not pre filling you are increasing your chances of damaging your cam/lifters. On the engines I have built I always do a prime on the oil system before cranking, having all the oil passages filled with oil makes a huge difference on first starts. I do understand our oil pumps move a great volume of oil in a short time. However, it only takes seconds for damage to occur and our filters are not small by any means and hold a descent amount of oil. There have been several posters on here claim they start to hear a tick right after an oil change when leaving the dealer, has anyone on here had a tick begin when they prefilled the oil filter? To dive a little deeper on this how can an oil change cause a tick? The only change I can think of is the minimal loss in oil pressure on initial start up as the oil filter fills. Our lifters are already poorly designed as is, for me id like to keep a constant supply of oil going to them at all times.

I have never pre filled a filter and i have done hundreds of oil changes, we also have a 12V with 1.8 million km never once pre-filled the oil filter. There is no risk not pre filling as said the system has oil throughout it. I have always primed new builds thats just common sense. My 19 has never ticked after an oil change and the filter has not been pre filled.

 

[Riddick]

Fellas, great points.... and I agree with almost everything you are saying. While the oil passages are filled with oil they are not moving oil until the filter is filled, there has to be pressure established for oil to flow. I find it odd that the majority of these ticks happen right after an oil change, and would like to know why. Obviously, there are several who do not prefill and have 0 issues or noises at all so its definitely not a smoking gun. I was simply trying to see what's different prior to an oil change and directly after.

Its been a few weeks since I have watched the above video but if you have time you should watch it. The poster tests virgin oil and oil that has been primed through an assembled engine that has been through the filter.

 

[AH64ID]

While the oil passages are filled with oil they are not moving oil until the filter is filled, there has to be pressure established for oil to flow.

No, oil is not flowing but the residual oil is what protects the surfaces while we wait for flow. Even on normal shutdowns the oil filter empties to 1/2 to 2/3 full, thou it is still saturated. Point is that all cold starts have a delay to oil flow, and we rely on the clinging force of the oil to protect the components.

Also, pressure doesn’t establish flow. Pressure is the resistance to flow. The oil pump establishes flow, and the engine provides resistance to that flow creating pressure.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Also, pressure doesn’t establish flow. Pressure is the resistance to flow. The oil pump establishes flow, and the engine provides resistance to that flow creating pressure.

exactly i can make an engine oil pump pressure spike and reduce the flow by blocking the bypass and adding a smaller orfice does not mean the engine is better off id rather have lower pressure and higher flow to a certain extent

 

[Ostracize]

Also, pressure doesn’t establish flow. Pressure is the resistance to flow. The oil pump establishes flow, and the engine provides resistance to that flow creating pressure

Although this is technically correct... oil circulation through an engine or any machinery requiring lubricant to be forced into tolerance areas (bearing surfaces) or especially when using the oils hydraulic capability to empart mechanical force (hydraulic lifters)... The lubrication "system" requires both flow and pressure.

Since going through this lifter tick nonsense with mine I personally believe it has almost nothing to do with pre-fill or not, 10-30 vs 5-40 etc etc..
These lifters and their bore tolerances are just not as tight as they should be and what we are seeing in the overall small % of effected trucks(though it should be 0) is the ones that develop this issue as they break in(normal wear not initial) allowing unintended lifter movement on sometimes multiple axises.
Please don't think I'm saying this applies to 100% of these "tick trucks". Of course there are other outside variables that are niche but overall the evidence points to these aforementioned concerns.
My truck is in for the second attempt to "fix".
Cam/lifters didn't work... Came back basically immediately. Upon further investigation of #6 lifter bore(intake I think) found damage from either casting flaw or assembly... So I'm waiting on a new block now.
So I'd catalog mine as niche.. Even from my own opinion about this issue as a whole.

 

[AH64ID]

Although this is technically correct... oil circulation through an engine or any machinery requiring lubricant to be forced into tolerance areas (bearing surfaces) or especially when using the oils hydraulic capability to empart mechanical force (hydraulic lifters)... The lubrication "system" requires both flow and pressure.

100%, which is why the design engineers use specific passages, orifices, pressure limiting and regulating valves, pump size, etc when designing an engine to ensure it has adequate lube characteristics for the components as some components needs high pressure low flow, and others need high flow and low pressure.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Although this is technically correct... oil circulation through an engine or any machinery requiring lubricant to be forced into tolerance areas (bearing surfaces) or especially when using the oils hydraulic capability to empart mechanical force (hydraulic lifters)... The lubrication "system" requires both flow and pressure.

Since going though this lifter tick nonsense with mine I personally believe it has almost nothing to do with pre-fill or not, 10-30 vs 5-40 etc etc..
These lifters and their bore tolerances are just not as tight as they should be and what we are seeing in the overall small % of effected trucks(though it should be 0) is the ones that develop this issue as they break in(normal wear not initial) allowing unintended lifter movement on sometimes multiple axises.
Please don't think I'm saying this applies to 100% of these "tick trucks". Of course there are other outside variables that are niche but overall the evidence points to these aforementioned concerns.
My truck is in for the second attempt to "fix".
Cam/lifters didn't work... Came back basically immediately. Upon further investigation of #6 lifter bore(intake I think) found damage from either casting flaw or assembly... So I'm waiting on a new block now.
So I'd catalog mine as niche.. Even from my own opinion about this issue as a whole.

I have always believed it was a block machining issue as the design of the lifter is nothing new as far as hydraulic roller lifters are concerned

 

[Riddick]

Today I was running some errands and I had the drivers window down and I could hear a very faint tick around 1300 RPMs under very light throttle conditions. I only noticed it when I was driving directly next to a barrier/wall. Once I parked it I revved the truck in park and there is definitely a very faint tick above 1300ish RPMS all the way up. Oil was changed a little over 1k miles ago and I used T6 5w-40, the truck currently has around 16800 miles. The noise is barely there and I wouldn't of even noticed it if I had the radio on, just so happened the windows were down and radio were off at the same time. Hopefully it does not get any louder, I really like this truck. I will try to go take a video here in a few minutes and post it below, would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

You cant hear it on camera from in the cab, once I stick it outside the door you can start to hear it. Faint but definitely there .

 

[Cseybert]

You definitely have something going on. I’ve never heard that before not on my 2019 SO or 22 HO.