No Weight Distribution Required?

[jsalbre]

OK just to clarify here, I'm not asking if I need weight distribution. I have it and use it and have towed with this truck and trailer over 15K since mid-2020. My post is meant as a question since I was told it's not recommended to use if using air bags, read it again if in doubt. Yes I have an issue I need to correct somehow but it won't include dropping WD. Hope this clears that up.

It’s a good topic to bring up, and especially good because your post shows that you can’t always trust that someone selling a product is actually an expert in the topic.

As mentioned above I’m a fan of both airbags and WDH when used properly.

 

[AH64ID]

You may or may not need a weight distribution hitch, but having airbags in no way covers any of the purpose of weight distribution hitches.

Putting weight on your tow ball removes weight from the front axle because the truck is essentially rotating around the rear axle. Rear goes down, front goes up. If you have too little weight on the front axle it can negatively impact both steering and braking. Most vehicle manufacturers (such as Ram for our trucks) say that weight distribution should return 50% of the weight to the front axle that was removed by the trailer (also referred to as "front axle load restoration, or FALR). Some vehicles call for 100% FALR.

Airbags level out a vehicle and stiffen the suspension, by increasing the effective spring rate. It will raise the rear of the truck and the front of the trailer, but does absolutely nothing to restore weight to the front axle of the truck.

Weight distribution hitches shift weight from the tongue/rear axle to the trailer axles and truck front axle by way of spring bars that are forcing the frames of both vehicles to rotate the opposite direction of what weight on the top ball wants to do. The more weight on the tow ball, the more force the opposite direction on the spring bars. The hitches must be adjusted for the specific weight and height of the trailer and tow vehicle. Significant changes to the weight or spring rate of either side will require re-adjusting. Inflating airbags *after* adjusting a weight distribution hitch will also remove pressure from the hitch and reduce it's effectiveness.

Additionally, and the only point that Steve at Timber Grove actually gets right, is that weight distribution hitches also tend to include anti-sway functionality.

That guy is a salesman, and is either clueless as to how things work (which is terrible) or is being dishonest (which is even worse) in order to convince you to purchase his product by saying that it will make your WDH unnecessary.

All the above said, in many cases having both airbags and WDH together is great. You can load up your truck first, then adjust your airbags to return the suspension to stock height, and then attach your trailer and adjust the WDH. This way you're not trying to use the WDH to make up for suspension sag from truck payload, and you also benefit from a stiffer suspension while towing. This can make a huge difference when towing heavy with a 2500 as our coil springs are inboard of the frame and supplementary airbags will be outboard of the frame, reducing the tendency for body roll.

This……

I’ll add a few things.

My general rule of thumb is that WDH is for tongue weight and airbags are for payload. As long as you setup your truck with that in mind they will work very well together.

Airbags only decrease the effectiveness of the WDH when they are used to lift the rear higher than it sits without payload, but the WDH and trailer hooked up. As long you only only inflate the bags to that height the WDH is just as effective as it was when you set it up. I prefer to inflate the airbags after everything is loaded and hitched up, but you have to know your height without any payload and the WDH hooked up.

Returning the rear end to the empty height isn’t properly using airbags. You want some weight on the springs, coil or leaf.

Many folks think the diesel doesn’t need WDH because it’s already heavy enough, which I don’t agree with. Unloading the front axle always effect suspension and steering geometry, as well as headlight aim. You’re always better off getting closer to empty ride height for handling purposes, regardless of the FAW.

The HD trucks don’t really need WDH, but boy does it improve the driver experience. The long heavy trailers just tow better with a WDH hooked up.

Sway control is by and large a gimmick and only needed if a trailer is improperly loaded. 13-15% tongue weight and the proper tow vehicle negates the need for sway control.

 

[Razzman]

This……

I’ll add a few things.

My general rule of thumb is that WDH is for tongue weight and airbags are for payload. As long as you setup your truck with that in mind they will work very well together.

Airbags only decrease the effectiveness of the WDH when they are used to lift the rear higher than it sits without payload, but the WDH and trailer hooked up. As long you only only inflate the bags to that height the WDH is just as effective as it was when you set it up. I prefer to inflate the airbags after everything is loaded and hitched up, but you have to know your height without any payload and the WDH hooked up.

Returning the rear end to the empty height isn’t properly using airbags. You want some weight on the springs, coil or leaf.

Many folks think the diesel doesn’t need WDH because it’s already heavy enough, which I don’t agree with. Unloading the front axle always effect suspension and steering geometry, as well as headlight aim. You’re always better off getting closer to empty ride height for handling purposes, regardless of the FAW.

The HD trucks don’t really need WDH, but boy does it improve the driver experience. The long heavy trailers just tow better with a WDH hooked up.

Sway control is by and large a gimmick and only needed if a trailer is improperly loaded. 13-15% tongue weight and the proper tow vehicle negates the need for sway control.

Haven't heard this one, exactly what is sits within payload?

 

[AH64ID]

Haven't heard this one, exactly what is sits within payload?

Without any payload, so just tongue weight, and nothing extra in the cab or bed.

 

[Razzman]

This……

I’ll add a few things.

My general rule of thumb is that WDH is for tongue weight and airbags are for payload. As long as you setup your truck with that in mind they will work very well together.

Airbags only decrease the effectiveness of the WDH when they are used to lift the rear higher than it sits without payload, but the WDH and trailer hooked up. As long you only only inflate the bags to that height the WDH is just as effective as it was when you set it up. I prefer to inflate the airbags after everything is loaded and hitched up, but you have to know your height without any payload and the WDH hooked up.

Returning the rear end to the empty height isn’t properly using airbags. You want some weight on the springs, coil or leaf.

Many folks think the diesel doesn’t need WDH because it’s already heavy enough, which I don’t agree with. Unloading the front axle always effect suspension and steering geometry, as well as headlight aim. You’re always better off getting closer to empty ride height for handling purposes, regardless of the FAW.

The HD trucks don’t really need WDH, but boy does it improve the driver experience. The long heavy trailers just tow better with a WDH hooked up.

Sway control is by and large a gimmick and only needed if a trailer is improperly loaded. 13-15% tongue weight and the proper tow vehicle negates the need for sway control.

So if I'm understanding this correctly ...

• Hookup truck and trailer without any payload
• Connect the weight distribution
• Measure the height
• Add payload
• Inflate air bags back to the measured no-payload height

 

[AH64ID]

So if I'm understanding this correctly ...

• Hookup truck and trailer without any payload
• Connect the weight distribution
• Measure the height
• Add payload
• Inflate air bags back to the measured no-payload height

Yes, this will let the airbags support the payload without effecting the effectiveness of the WDH. You’ll end up with a more stable ride.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

The problem with travel trailers is you can’t seem to load them correctly. It’s hard to get tongue weight dialed in when you can’t move the cargo around. WDH seems to be the popular bandaid for this.

Also, imho.. pulling a 40’ camper with a 2500 cummins you bought wrong truck

 

[Razzman]

The problem with travel trailers is you can’t seem to load them correctly. It’s hard to get tongue weight dialed in when you can’t move the cargo around. WDH seems to be the popular bandaid for this.

Also, imho.. pulling a 40’ camper with a 2500 cummins you bought wrong truck

100% correct. I was lucky after weighing at the scale I them weighed tongue weight with my Sherline scale and was perfect at 12%. Very lucky as I have no way to redistribute weight in my trailer, it is what it is. I use the WD hitch because it drops the truck over 2" in the rear.

 

[AH64ID]

I have been successful at loading for ideal tongue weight on all the TT’s I’ve owned. It doesn’t take much rearranging of items to get it where you want to. Biggest one I had to rearrange was a 30’ bunkhouse. The first time we loaded it the TW was 17%, but I swapped a few items around and got it to 15%.

I shoot for 13-15% and prefer 15-16% over 10-12%.

 

[jsalbre]

I have been successful at loading for ideal tongue weight on all the TT’s I’ve owned. It doesn’t take much rearranging of items to get it where you want to. Biggest one I had to rearrange was a 30’ bunkhouse. The first time we loaded it the TW was 17%, but I swapped a few items around and got it to 15%.

I shoot for 13-15% and prefer 15-16% over 10-12%.

The biggest issue is water tank weight. I head out for a trip with 45 gallons (375 lbs) of water right behind the tongue. By the end of the weekend most of that is hanging out behind the rear axle.

That’s a huge shift that you can’t really do anything about and WDH helps make it less of an issue.

 

[AH64ID]

The biggest issue is water tank weight. I head out for a trip with 45 gallons (375 lbs) of water right behind the tongue. By the end of the weekend most of that is hanging out behind the rear axle.

That’s a huge shift that you can’t really do anything about and WDH helps make it less of an issue.

It just depends on trailer design. The trailers I’ve owned just don’t shift that much with or without water, at least not enough to worry about.

I also see big shifts like that as more of a sway control thing from insufficient tongue weight with certain loading, rather than a WDH issue.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

The biggest issue is water tank weight. I head out for a trip with 45 gallons (375 lbs) of water right behind the tongue. By the end of the weekend most of that is hanging out behind the rear axle.

That’s a huge shift that you can’t really do anything about and WDH helps make it less of an issue.

Depends on the trailer my 5th wheel is the opposite fresh all the way at the back and greys and black up front some bumper pulls like that too

 

[jsalbre]

Depends on the trailer my 5th wheel is the opposite fresh all the way at the back and greys and black up front some bumper pulls like that too

Definitely depends on the trailer. My Airstream had all three tanks right over the axles.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Definitely depends on the trailer. My Airstream had all three tanks right over the axles.

One thing i actually like about airstream then lol

 

[jsalbre]

One thing i actually like about airstream then lol

It’s easy to do when there’s no slide mechanisms to deal with.

They’re expensive and don’t have a lot of storage space, but they’re rock solid and tow so nice.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

It’s easy to do when there’s no slide mechanisms to deal with.

They’re expensive and don’t have a lot of storage space, but they’re rock solid and tow so nice.

Even with slides its easy to do but the avg trailer manufacturers don't build them smart just cheap and fast. The reason i still have my old 97 Jayco designer is due to how well built it is and i dont want to get a new one that is overpriced and under built. Plus i don't see the value in paying 100k+ for a trailer i use 2-3 times in the summer and 3 weeks at hunting season lol

 

[jsalbre]

Even with slides its easy to do but the avg trailer manufacturers don't build them smart just cheap and fast. The reason i still have my old 97 Jayco designer is due to how well built it is and i dont want to get a new one that is overpriced and under built. Plus i don't see the value in paying 100k+ for a trailer i use 2-3 times in the summer and 3 weeks at hunting season lol

True story. We probably spend 60+ days a year in our current trailer. We lived in the Airstream for a year.

 

[Razzman]

Even with slides its easy to do but the avg trailer manufacturers don't build them smart just cheap and fast. The reason i still have my old 97 Jayco designer is due to how well built it is and i dont want to get a new one that is overpriced and under built. Plus i don't see the value in paying 100k+ for a trailer i use 2-3 times in the summer and 3 weeks at hunting season lol

So much junk out there and the reason I have a Northwood product (Nash, Arctic Fox & ORV). Had a 2005 Northwood Nash trailer for years and moved up to a newer one for size only. True four season trailer and very well built and with 15K on it now since July of 2020 have had no issues. And I only paid 30K for it new.

 

[daemonic3]

The owner of Timber Grove is unfortunately comparing apples to oranges. The statement that a you do not need a WDH for a gooseneck or fifthwheel is a true statement mainly because the weight is over the axle and also, to my knowledge, there is no WDH for those types of trailers. Now, a bumper pull is a whole different fruit. You have a considerable weight cantilevered 4-5 feet behind the rear axle which is going to remove weight from the front axle. It’s not my opinion….it’s physics. The fact that you can level your truck with airbags does nothing to change the physics. I have had the air bags springs from Timber Grove and they are a great product. But, pumping them up to level the truck does nothing to return the load back to the front axle. Trust me…I have tried. I personally hate WDH due to the stress it puts on the trailer frame as well as the truck and the roughness it makes the rig ride but it you want to return the load back to the front axle, there is no better method. Yes, some hitches are better than others and it also seems to depend on the length of the trailer as to how well they actually “distribute the weight”. I’ve tried WDH from Anderson (doesn’t work well with long heavy trailers), the Swaypro from Blue OX (did a better job transferring weight than Anderson but still struggled a bit), the Weigh Safe. True Tow (did a great job transferring weight but had some reliability issues) and finally the B&W Continuum (works as well as the Weigh Safe but too early to tell about reliablity) all in search of that “perfect“ combination. I’ve come close but there are still compromises. But, air bags or springs alone will not solve the problem.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the failure on the Weigh Safe, and was it a heavyweight or middleweight version?

I used a Reese Steadi-flex for 6 years and loved it but wanted a fresh start with my new TT. I thought about the Reese Strait-line dual cam II but the only video reviews online were either from Reese or e-Trailer! Felt that seemed strange due to conflict of interest. The weigh-safe had such positive user reviews online and I love the integrated tongue scale and calculator to easily dial in the distributed weight. This becomes more important with the Ram air suspension because it will try to level itself and make it harder to just measure fender heights to validate the distributed weight. I'll dial in to the proper range from the app's calculator, let the truck do its thing to level in alt height mode, and CAT it to check how much I returned to front axle when I get a chance.

Great thread, learned a lot reading the most recent opinions and experiences. (I'm not new to TT towing nor physics, just 100% new to air suspensions)

 

[Red Rider]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the failure on the Weigh Safe, and was it a heavyweight or middleweight version?

I used a Reese Steadi-flex for 6 years and loved it but wanted a fresh start with my new TT. I thought about the Reese Strait-line dual cam II but the only video reviews online were either from Reese or e-Trailer! Felt that seemed strange due to conflict of interest. The weigh-safe had such positive user reviews online and I love the integrated tongue scale and calculator to easily dial in the distributed weight. This becomes more important with the Ram air suspension because it will try to level itself and make it harder to just measure fender heights to validate the distributed weight. I'll dial in to the proper range from the app's calculator, let the truck do its thing to level in alt height mode, and CAT it to check how much I returned to front axle when I get a chance.

Great thread, learned a lot reading the most recent opinions and experiences. (I'm not new to TT towing nor physics, just 100% new to air suspensions)

I just saw from a trailer forum that the Weigh Safe heavy weight hitch is no longer available. If this is true it is possible that all the issues I had were not isolated and they decided to redesign the hitch to eliminate the problems.