No Weight Distribution Required?

[Razzman]

This is going to be a touchy subject no doubt, there's many for and against. But that's not what this is post is for, it's for an opinion on a statement made to me by the owner of Timber Grove Air Bags. Let's keep it civil and on point, I'm looking for real world experience, not rumor or speculation.

I'm fully aware of the pro's and cons and am currently using an Equalizer e4 WD hitch setup. It works fine with no issues and is setup to 100% weight distribution as recommended by Equalizer. Problem is porpoising between the truck and trailer. I was considering either air bags or Sumo's. In my search I contacted Steve @ Timber Grove and this is part of his response to my questions;

"With a 2500, "E" rated tires and air springs, I would do away with the hassle of a WDH. With that said, the sway control function may be something that is helpful to you. You can experiment with and without to see what you like best. If you decide to keep it with the air springs, then the torsion bars must be readjusted to a light force to secure them and allow the sway function to operate. They will not do any heavy lifting, just provide sway control. Air springs will overpower torsion bars and provide a terrible ride quality if they are adjusted too tight.

The key is to tow at your empty ride height to keep the most weight transferred to the front axle and keep safety equipment within spec. After adding air to support the trailer and reaching ride height, there should be no porpoising. I have numerous customers pulling goosenecks and fifth wheels with pin weights between 2,000 and 4,000 lbs. that have zero issues."

First I'd heard this one, but I admit I haven't used bags on my trucks in almost 20 years either. So what's your thoughts on this? I know there's a lot of people not using WD. My trailer is 28'OA @ 7,500lbs max, I'm generally around 6,700lbs @ 12% tongue weight and perfectly level. I've never experienced anything towing other than the porpoising.

 

[Darkside]

I have a 2500 with auto leveling air, when I had my bumper pull travel trailer I still used a WD hitch, it’s not just about sag, it’s about not taking too much weight off your front axle…. The statement about goosenecks and fifth wheels is irrelevant as the weight is directly above or slightly ahead of the rear axle, keeping weight on the front axle. Obviously this is all dependent on what you feel works for you, many guys will say a WD is not necessary, it’s what you feel comfortable with.

 

[elephantrider]

I've never used one. I run airbags to stay level. keep it at safe speeds.

 

[Razzman]

I have a 2500 with auto leveling air, when I had my bumper pull travel trailer I still used a WD hitch, it’s not just about sag, it’s about not taking too much weight off your front axle…. The statement about goosenecks and fifth wheels is irrelevant as the weight is directly above or slightly ahead of the rear axle, keeping weight on the front axle. Obviously this is all dependent on what you feel works for you, many guys will say a WD is not necessary, it’s what you feel comfortable with.

I understand the purpose of a WD hitch, that’s why I use one. It seems odd to me that a manufacturer would say he doesn’t recommend them. Hence the reason I posted. Even odder is that he claims the airbags will make the ride rough, I know many running bags and WD.

 

[Aketay]

Are you still on the factory shocks? They are only good for about ten thousand miles or after you have made your first payment. I run air bags and tow with 1600-1900lbs on an aluminum adjustable hitch. No pitching or porpoise if I bring the truck back to level.

 

[Darkside]

I understand the purpose of a WD hitch, that’s why I use one. It seems odd to me that a manufacturer would say he doesn’t recommend them. Hence the reason I posted. Even odder is that he claims the airbags will make the ride rough, I know many running bags and WD.

Yep, definitely a questionable response from a manufacturer, unfortunately just because they work for a company doesn’t mean they know how things work…

 

[Darkside]

Old video, but good info

 

[Razzman]

Yep, definitely a questionable response from a manufacturer, unfortunately just because they work for a company doesn’t mean they know how things work…

He owns the company lol

 

[Razzman]

Are you still on the factory shocks? They are only good for about ten thousand miles or after you have made your first payment. I run air bags and tow with 1600-1900lbs on an aluminum adjustable hitch. No pitching or porpoise if I bring the truck back to level.

Nope as sig states, Fox 2.0 shocks. What are you towing?

 

[Red Rider]

The owner of Timber Grove is unfortunately comparing apples to oranges. The statement that a you do not need a WDH for a gooseneck or fifthwheel is a true statement mainly because the weight is over the axle and also, to my knowledge, there is no WDH for those types of trailers. Now, a bumper pull is a whole different fruit. You have a considerable weight cantilevered 4-5 feet behind the rear axle which is going to remove weight from the front axle. It’s not my opinion….it’s physics. The fact that you can level your truck with airbags does nothing to change the physics. I have had the air bags springs from Timber Grove and they are a great product. But, pumping them up to level the truck does nothing to return the load back to the front axle. Trust me…I have tried. I personally hate WDH due to the stress it puts on the trailer frame as well as the truck and the roughness it makes the rig ride but it you want to return the load back to the front axle, there is no better method. Yes, some hitches are better than others and it also seems to depend on the length of the trailer as to how well they actually “distribute the weight”. I’ve tried WDH from Anderson (doesn’t work well with long heavy trailers), the Swaypro from Blue OX (did a better job transferring weight than Anderson but still struggled a bit), the Weigh Safe. True Tow (did a great job transferring weight but had some reliability issues) and finally the B&W Continuum (works as well as the Weigh Safe but too early to tell about reliablity) all in search of that “perfect“ combination. I’ve come close but there are still compromises. But, air bags or springs alone will not solve the problem.

 

[AH64ID]

Wow, I don’t have time to get into it right now.. but despite making really nice airbags he doesn’t really know what he’s taking about with trailers and a WDH.

I’ll be back with a better explanation of why.

 

[jsalbre]

You may or may not need a weight distribution hitch, but having airbags in no way covers any of the purpose of weight distribution hitches.

Putting weight on your tow ball removes weight from the front axle because the truck is essentially rotating around the rear axle. Rear goes down, front goes up. If you have too little weight on the front axle it can negatively impact both steering and braking. Most vehicle manufacturers (such as Ram for our trucks) say that weight distribution should return 50% of the weight to the front axle that was removed by the trailer (also referred to as "front axle load restoration, or FALR). Some vehicles call for 100% FALR.

Airbags level out a vehicle and stiffen the suspension, by increasing the effective spring rate. It will raise the rear of the truck and the front of the trailer, but does absolutely nothing to restore weight to the front axle of the truck.

Weight distribution hitches shift weight from the tongue/rear axle to the trailer axles and truck front axle by way of spring bars that are forcing the frames of both vehicles to rotate the opposite direction of what weight on the top ball wants to do. The more weight on the tow ball, the more force the opposite direction on the spring bars. The hitches must be adjusted for the specific weight and height of the trailer and tow vehicle. Significant changes to the weight or spring rate of either side will require re-adjusting. Inflating airbags *after* adjusting a weight distribution hitch will also remove pressure from the hitch and reduce it's effectiveness.

Additionally, and the only point that Steve at Timber Grove actually gets right, is that weight distribution hitches also tend to include anti-sway functionality.

That guy is a salesman, and is either clueless as to how things work (which is terrible) or is being dishonest (which is even worse) in order to convince you to purchase his product by saying that it will make your WDH unnecessary.

All the above said, in many cases having both airbags and WDH together is great. You can load up your truck first, then adjust your airbags to return the suspension to stock height, and then attach your trailer and adjust the WDH. This way you're not trying to use the WDH to make up for suspension sag from truck payload, and you also benefit from a stiffer suspension while towing. This can make a huge difference when towing heavy with a 2500 as our coil springs are inboard of the frame and supplementary airbags will be outboard of the frame, reducing the tendency for body roll.

 

[Brutal_HO]

You could bolt your rear axle to the frame and a bumper pull will take weight off the front end without WDH.

Not saying the WDH is required in all cases, but as said, it's simple physics.

 

[Aketay]

Nope as sig states, Fox 2.0 shocks. What are you towing?

Just little 40’ campers………

 

[Pasta4lnch]

Some have touched on it...what are the thoughts on the stress a WDH puts on a bumper pull frame? Just curious.... fwiw I towed my TT w a centerline WDH that was probably over capacity for my half ton for three years w zero issues and zero sway (when others in our convoy were all over the place) and I just got a Andersen for our new rig...also just put on sumo springs - probably didn't even need them, but I wanted to try them

 

[usernamechecksout]

So there is no debate to the physics that a wdh hitch transfers some weight back to the front axles. This is especially a big deal on half ton trucks because of their limited axle weight ratings. You have to sacrifice adding additional stress to the entire system for that weight transfer though.

How much stress youre adding is a good question that not many people can answer. Some wdh hitches can/have bent/broke trailer frames.

With 3/4 - 1 ton trucks with heavier air ratings, is it really necessary to transfer the weight up front? My truck at the scale sits just over 5k in the front and 3.6k in the rear. Adding 1k tongue weight would probably equalize the front and the rear axles. (I need to take my trailer to the scales for this measurement but using the video previously posted, it seems about right that the axles would be nearly equal.)

So again, if they equalize, is it necessary to transfer the weight? The same ratings are within spec so what's the deal? To reiterate, I don't dispute that wdh hitches have a place and a function and those functions aren't being disputed here.

Now, if you want to talk about the benefits of sway control of a wdh, that's a different matter and it offers some additional benefit. Is it necessary? With a properly balanced trailer, I don't think so. But it's it helpful, even with a properly balanced trailer, I'd say yes. (Especially in gusty (windy) conditions.)

So I argue that if you're comfortable pulling without one, you shouldn't be ridiculed. wdh hitches are extremely beneficial for those that are first learning to pull a heavy trailer but also offer some benefits for those that have years of experience.

The weight distribution properties of wdh hitches are always argued as the best part of the hitch and if you're trying to squeeze out every last pound of your axle rating on a half ton, yes it is the best part. But for larger trucks that's the least beneficial aspect.

 

[Red Rider]

Your questions about whether you need a WDH or not is a valid one. I think that it would depend greatly on your truck configuration and the tongue weight of the trailer. If you had a one ton truck with a Cummins engine and a long bed, you may not if the tongue weight was not huge. A 3’4 ton with a gas engine and a short bed is a different calculation all together. In my case ( 3/4 ton crew cab Hemi with short bed), the 1500 lb tongue weight I am carrying removes a bit more than 550 lbs off the front axle. Unloaded, my front axle has 4200 lbs of weight. With the trailer and no WDH, there is a removal of roughly 13% of the total weight. Since your front wheels provide significantly more braking power than your rear wheels, 13% would seem to reduce that braking power by a large amount. Just for reference, my rear axle weight unloaded is 4340 lbs. With no WDH my weights with a 1500 lb hitch load would change the loads to 3650 for the front and 5840 for the rear. Not exactly balanced. Now, if you had a Cummins which I have heard weighs a good 1000-1200 lbs more than the Hemi, the numbers for front might only be approx 10% less which is technicall more than an unloaded Hemi but still biased to the rear. Of course even with the WDH, the balance is still more on the rear but at least the front has close to the unloaded weight. I do know that I recently came over an overpas while pulling the trailer and came upon a stopped traffic situation while traveling 60 mile an hour. I did get it to a stop without sliding any tires but the pucker factor went way up. Yes, the trailer brakes helped tremendously but I would hate to have tried it with 550 lbs less weight on the front end. Anyway just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Razzman]

OK just to clarify here, I'm not asking if I need weight distribution. I have it and use it and have towed with this truck and trailer over 15K since mid-2020. My post is meant as a question since I was told it's not recommended to use if using air bags, read it again if in doubt. Yes I have an issue I need to correct somehow but it won't include dropping WD. Hope this clears that up.

 

[jsalbre]

As far as stress on the trailer frame goes, there is of course some added stress. However, I think anyone who is familiar with RVs knows that manufacturers, and that includes frame manufacturers, are always looking for anything they can use to void a warranty. See the multitude of restrictions the frame manufacturers put on swapping out 5th wheel boxes for gooseneck adapters. I’ve yet to see any frame manufacturer say that use of a weight distribution hitch voids the warranty, so they’re obviously not concerned about it. Even Airstream, which uses far thinner/less strong frames than traditional travel trailer manufacturers (the body is most of the strength) supports the use of WDH.

Equalizing the weight between the front and the rear axles isn’t really the point. The truck’s suspension and steering are designed around a certain amount (or range) of weight on the front axle. Reducing that by too much will negatively impact the steering.

Many vehicle manufacturers specify that you must use WDH when towing over a certain weight. Ram specifically recommends for the HD trucks that you use WDH for any trailer with a gross weight of over 5000 pounds, though they stop short of requiring it.

One other point to bring up that doesn’t fit in the above topics exactly, is that a long bed truck is less affected by the lack of WDH than a short bed, as the effective lever is much longer.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Here is my thoughts based on experience if you have a gasser you are more likely going to need a WDH as you have less weight over the front axle. With or without air bags i do not run a WDH yes i know the theory behind them but in my experience they are more of a hinderance than they help