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CP4 to CP3 conversion discussion moved from larger CP3 thread

NordicNevs

NordicNevs

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steve49 said:
I'd be reluctant to go with the after market kits like S&S and Industrial, no tune necessary just swap out. The fellow on here a while back that did the Industrial kit on his new Ram, had problems after the install, went back and forth with Industrial trying to solve it, finally had to bring in a "tuner", then claiming all was good after the tuner, then traded the new Ram truck off and bought a new Ford diesel with a CP4 pump! Who takes a new truck $$, does this type of conversion $$, claims it's all good and within a week or so trades it for a Ford with the same pump? I think there was more to the story that we weren't told! I think those kits may be viable, but with all the computer control and the electronics involved, it appears that there are "bugs" to be worked out.
Click to expand...

That was me

It was the right decision

You want the whole story? Seems like a diversion from the thread. But I’ll share if the mods don’t think it will derail the thread.
 
NordicNevs said:
That was me

It was the right decision

You want the whole story? Seems like a diversion from the thread. But I’ll share if the mods don’t think it will derail the thread.
Click to expand...
I'd like to know.............. If the aftermarket no tune replacement pumps end up being the only answer for a bunch of us, knowing the good, and the bad will be important. Seems relevant to me.
 
KBob said:
I'd like to know.............. If the aftermarket no tune replacement pumps end up being the only answer for a bunch of us, knowing the good, and the bad will be important. Seems relevant to me.
Click to expand...

I’ll hop on the computer in a few and type up a reply for ya. I’ll do my best to keep it concise. Typing a lot of detail on a phone sucks
 
As @steve49 said and correctly I swapped my truck to an Industrial Injection CP3 and then did in fact sell it roughly 4-6 months later. Where there is a little misdirection is that there is some conspiracy to the story haha. Here is the deal.

I deleted and tuned my truck so my CP3 swap was after the flash. That being said, the tuner AND industrial injection BOTH said I should tune then drop in the new pump. So, that's an important data point.

When I deleted the truck, the truck ran amazing. All the power, all the tunes all the graphs and parameters I was following and paying attention too looked great with the CP4. There were no issues at all.

When I installed my II pump (I did it myself with a buddy) I flashed the factory power tune. This is essentially all factory power numbers, calibration, timing etc all where they should be minus the operation of the emissions system.

As stated above I watched my truck meticulously and noticed some abnormalities with the truck immediately following the swap. FRP was dropping well below the considered "safe" region. There was signifiant surging at idle, it shook the truck, you could hear it in the motor almost like a knock, my wife noticed and wasn't happy. As a matter of fact she refused to ride in it until we straightened it all out.

We threw the book at this thing to where I eventually (through the help of this forum and others) found a tuner who had something of a decent tune to stabilize the swapped pumps. I did so many data logs on the truck I can't even recall how many. AT THE TIME there was only 1 tune for that truck that would work and let me tell you, it was mediocre at best but I appreciated the improvement. The tune derated the truck significantly, it didn't feel right. Needless to say, I lost a lot of confidence in the powertrain and everything I did to it. Did it run, yes, and compared to what I had before (the horrible lope idle etc) it was much better. There were a few folks who I was in contact with regularly who also were satisfied with the, at the time, "win".

Now there is a chance that the time between now as I type this out and February when she got swapped out there has been significant changes in the tuning etc but I was just worn out with it.
I follow this thread because I really do hope there is a good service solution for all you guys. I have invested a good amount into that truck, this topic and I am very interested in outcome hence why I hang around here.
If you want to know why I went with the Ford, DM me so I don't muddy the thread, if there is enough interest I will start a new one. I have some serious reasons for the switch considering the poor design of the CP4 and in many eyes of this forum "going backwards".

So I will leave with this. Each truck though the same in many respects has subtle differences in how it operates, accepts tunes (factory and aftermarket etc). Some trucks have done amazing with the II and others like mine were terrible with it, a lot of people have had good success with the S&S pump swaps but neither of the pumps have a 100% success rate with the swaps. So in closing. There wasn't a hidden reason behind the curtain that I swapped brands but I was kinda over the whole thing among other issues I had with the truck that have been addressed on this forum in great detail.

Now ready for the kicker? I have a Big Horn HO '22 on order considering with the Ford shortage I have a standing offer for an amazing $$$$ if I sell it back and a decent offer if I trade it in. So will I come back to cummins? Sure maybe if everything still looks today as it does when the order comes in, but for the 19-20 fiasco Im hopeful you all are awarded a solution worth the wait they have had you endure.

Nevs
 
NordicNevs said:
As @steve49 said and correctly I swapped my truck to an Industrial Injection CP3 and then did in fact sell it roughly 4-6 months later. Where there is a little misdirection is that there is some conspiracy to the story haha. Here is the deal.

I deleted and tuned my truck so my CP3 swap was after the flash. That being said, the tuner AND industrial injection BOTH said I should tune then drop in the new pump. So, that's an important data point.

When I deleted the truck, the truck ran amazing. All the power, all the tunes all the graphs and parameters I was following and paying attention too looked great with the CP4. There were no issues at all.

When I installed my II pump (I did it myself with a buddy) I flashed the factory power tune. This is essentially all factory power numbers, calibration, timing etc all where they should be minus the operation of the emissions system.

As stated above I watched my truck meticulously and noticed some abnormalities with the truck immediately following the swap. FRP was dropping well below the considered "safe" region. There was signifiant surging at idle, it shook the truck, you could hear it in the motor almost like a knock, my wife noticed and wasn't happy. As a matter of fact she refused to ride in it until we straightened it all out.

We threw the book at this thing to where I eventually (through the help of this forum and others) found a tuner who had something of a decent tune to stabilize the swapped pumps. I did so many data logs on the truck I can't even recall how many. AT THE TIME there was only 1 tune for that truck that would work and let me tell you, it was mediocre at best but I appreciated the improvement. The tune derated the truck significantly, it didn't feel right. Needless to say, I lost a lot of confidence in the powertrain and everything I did to it. Did it run, yes, and compared to what I had before (the horrible lope idle etc) it was much better. There were a few folks who I was in contact with regularly who also were satisfied with the, at the time, "win".

Now there is a chance that the time between now as I type this out and February when she got swapped out there has been significant changes in the tuning etc but I was just worn out with it.
I follow this thread because I really do hope there is a good service solution for all you guys. I have invested a good amount into that truck, this topic and I am very interested in outcome hence why I hang around here.
If you want to know why I went with the Ford, DM me so I don't muddy the thread, if there is enough interest I will start a new one. I have some serious reasons for the switch considering the poor design of the CP4 and in many eyes of this forum "going backwards".

So I will leave with this. Each truck though the same in many respects has subtle differences in how it operates, accepts tunes (factory and aftermarket etc). Some trucks have done amazing with the II and others like mine were terrible with it, a lot of people have had good success with the S&S pump swaps but neither of the pumps have a 100% success rate with the swaps. So in closing. There wasn't a hidden reason behind the curtain that I swapped brands but I was kinda over the whole thing among other issues I had with the truck that have been addressed on this forum in great detail.

Now ready for the kicker? I have a Big Horn HO '22 on order considering with the Ford shortage I have a standing offer for an amazing $$$$ if I sell it back and a decent offer if I trade it in. So will I come back to cummins? Sure maybe if everything still looks today as it does when the order comes in, but for the 19-20 fiasco Im hopeful you all are awarded a solution worth the wait they have had you endure.

Nevs
Click to expand...
Nevs,

I apologize for any misinformation in my comments, probably should have kept that to myself! From the problems you had and all, it just seemed odd to just trade it off after doing all that work, so was thinking things still weren't 100% right with the operation of the pump. Anyway my overall point was that the CP3 kits aren't just a drop in and then drive, because obviously as in your case it requires additional tuning to make it work.
 
steve49 said:
Nevs,

I apologize for any misinformation in my comments, probably should have kept that to myself! From the problems you had and all, it just seemed odd to just trade it off after doing all that work, so was thinking things still weren't 100% right with the operation of the pump. Anyway my overall point was that the CP3 kits aren't just a drop in and then drive, because obviously as in your case it requires additional tuning to make it work.
Click to expand...

No apology needed at all. I totally see your view on it and you weren’t 100% wrong, just 5% wrong haha. It’s all good.

Knowing what I know today if anyone was going to swap IF the service solution isn’t acceptable to the owner it would be,

Don’t touch the tuning on the truck, and go with S&S
They go the extra mile on their engineering, R&D and verification of pump parameters and you’ll be fine
 
NordicNevs said:
No apology needed at all. I totally see your view on it and you weren’t 100% wrong, just 5% wrong haha. It’s all good.

Knowing what I know today if anyone was going to swap IF the service solution isn’t acceptable to the owner it would be,

Don’t touch the tuning on the truck, and go with S&S
They go the extra mile on their engineering, R&D and verification of pump parameters and you’ll be fine
Click to expand...

Curious as to what made you go with Industrial over S&S in the first place?
 
jetrinka said:
Curious as to what made you go with Industrial over S&S in the first place?
Click to expand...

Timing, availability, didn’t have any S&S POCs for a sale. I adopted it early so there were a lot of things that were in the air.

Fun fact, in the time that I ordered the pump, installed it and had my first worry’s wirh it, the lead POC at II had been “let go”

Lots of red flags haha
 
I’m at 5 months with my Industrial Injection CP3 and I’ve had zero issues. I haven’t noticed any difference from the stock CP4. Its a bit pricey but the peace of mind during a road trip is worth it for me. Plus I plan on keeping this truck long term. I absolutely love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
clawdog79 said:
I’m at 5 months with my Industrial Injection CP3 and I’ve had zero issues. I haven’t noticed any difference from the stock CP4. Its a bit pricey but the peace of mind during a road trip is worth it for me. Plus I plan on keeping this truck long term. I absolutely love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

One of the lucky ones eh
 
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