Brake upgrade options

[Bandit400]

I am going to be carrying a 5k plus pound truck camper soon. The stock brakes are okay but not great. Unfortunately, there are not many options out there for 3500 DRWs. Saw this front caliper upgrade from SSBC-USA which looks interesting. I know they just rebooted the company as the prior entity went out of business so there is a bit of a risk with the new unproven company which purchased the old SSBC assets but the product looks nice from what I can see. Anyone have any experience with the new SSBC-USA company products or this this caliper set?

SSBC-USA 8 Piston Calipers

It uses the stock 14 inch rotor size but gives a billet 8 SS piston fixed front caliper versus the stock twin piston floating caliper setup. I would expect that the 8 piston would provide a lot more consistent pressure over the pad providing better bite to use more of the surface area of the pads. Unfortunately, it looks like we really can't go any bigger on the rotor due to the stock 17" DRW wheels. It would have been nice to have more rotor size to dissipate the heat with heavy towing/payload also but no options out there without changing wheel size and custom fab.

Bandit400

 

[Bandit400]

In the simplest of terms a braking system transforms kinetic energy into thermal energy. You first need to identify what you are looking to accomplish. Are you interested in stopping in the shortest distance for one emergency stop or are you interested in controlling your speed down a long steep grade? Some folks are interested in reducing noise or brake dust while others want pads that will last forever. Calipers are just one part of your system so when looking at them you must also be considering what rotors and pads you will be using and most importantly...what is the exact problem you are looking to solve?

Primary objective is stopping quicker in emergency stops when having a 5k plus TC in the bed. Secondary, minimize brake fade over longer down steep grades. I have the exhaust brake to help reduce the load on the brakes during this situation.

 

[gimmie11s]

I am going to be carrying a 5k plus pound truck camper soon. The stock brakes are okay but not great. Unfortunately, there are not many options out there for 3500 DRWs. Saw this front caliper upgrade from SSBC-USA which looks interesting. I know they just rebooted the company as the prior entity went out of business so there is a bit of a risk with the new unproven company which purchased the old SSBC assets but the product looks nice from what I can see. Anyone have any experience with the new SSBC-USA company products or this this caliper set?

SSBC-USA 8 Piston Calipers

It uses the stock 14 inch rotor size but gives a billet 8 SS piston fixed front caliper versus the stock twin piston floating caliper setup. I would expect that the 8 piston would provide a lot more consistent pressure over the pad providing better bite to use more of the surface area of the pads. Unfortunately, it looks like we really can't go any bigger on the rotor due to the stock 17" DRW wheels. It would have been nice to have more rotor size to dissipate the heat with heavy towing/payload also but no options out there without changing wheel size and custom fab.

Bandit400

Those calipers appear to be a heck of an option. While a larger rotor would be nice, 14" ought to be sufficient and the problem is likely the stock 2 piston caliper.

The brakes on my 2016 2500 left a lot to be desired. I'll be interested to see how they brakes perform on the 2021 DRW 3500 i have on order.

 

[Bandit400]

Well, I'm no expert although years ago I roadraced superbikes on the national circuit and brakes were very important. In short, you are asking a braking system to perform two tasks that are at opposite ends of the braking spectrum. And that's fine, we all want as much as a system can provide.

In a quick emergency stop with a heavy load we are asking cold brakes to bite immediately, providing the maximum amount of friction in the shortest possible time. We are not too concerned about the transfer of kinetic energy into thermal since the system has a certain amount of thermal mass that most likely can absorb and transfer that much energy in a short amount of time. Higher friction pads that provide this type or performance are usually organic, dirty, noisy and have a short life. I am talking in broad generalities here and working from memory so don't take any of this as absolute.

For minimizing brake fade over long steep grades we are not asking the same braking system to absorb small amounts of energy for a long time - this is the exact opposite of what we were asking previously. Now you might be able to see how we need to pick and choose what we would like a braking system to do since there are always trade offs and no system can do everything we ask. Where thermal mass and energy transfer were not as much of a problem previously now it is. The system can only accept a certain amount of energy prior to reaching it's limit - we call the limit brake fade. The pads do play a part in this as certain pads handle high heat better for long periods of time while others handle short bursts better. In this case you might be looking for a ceramic pad since they can sustain operations at higher temperatures for longer periods of time. It seems to me that your engine exhaust brake would be the best solution for long steady periods or braking such as this.

In summary, it seems your stock system is best engineered for covering many bases well. Uber-expensive calibers with eight pistons may provide a faster transfer of energy but maybe your current system is providing nearly the maximum already and these new calipers will only increase your braking ability by 5%. That's a poor return on investment in my opinion and on the race track we were always looking for ways to stop quicker. Our efforts were balanced systems - larger diameter rotors, more pistons, more aggressive pad compounds. But the systems were truly engineered and balanced.

Here's a though - maybe look at the braking system on the 4500 or 5500 RAMs and see what they are using. Again, this would be an engineered system that is balanced. You may be required to run a different diameter brake rotor and wheel combination. We didn't talk about brake fluids boiling and overall suspension set ups but these impact braking performance also. In a perfect world the front and rear braking systems share an equal amount of the load. As we know, during emergency braking the mass of your vehicle wants to continue forward and places the heaviest demand on your front brake system and takes the same amount of weight off the rear. This is a complex system that will never be solved by simply upgrading a since component - it is a system and must remain balanced. This is the reason I am suggesting looking at the 4500 and 5500 braking and suspension systems. OK, maybe just buy a new 4500 or 5500

Thanks for the feedback. My primary objective here is to provide additional safety margin and definitely more brake pedal response during emergency/short distance braking. The two piston floating design of the stock calipers is standard OEM non-performance oriented braking but should definitely meet the needs of the typical use of the vehicle. Agree the right decision is go with a 5500 which has larger overall payload and brakes to go with it (15.3 inch rotor with same floating 2 piston type calipers vs 14.2 inch rotors on the 3500). Although some of that extra capacity goes towards stopping that extra mass of the 5500 platform itself. Just not sure I want to go down that road right now. With the load I am running that is pushing up to the max of the 3500 capacity, having a bit of extra insurance in the braking area I feel will be worth the premium on those 8 pot calipers. One way to find out, I think I am going to give them a try. I will report back

 

[loveracing1988]

Increasing the Stopping Power of a 2017 Ram 2500

It doesn’t matter whether a truck is brand new or if it’s been in the fleet for years. At some point, most owners consider ways to modify their trucks. Lifting

www.trucktrend.com

It does require a wheel upgrade, but it was what I was considering for my 2500 at one time.

 

[werard]

Instead of buying Calipers why not upgrade the pads and rotors with something like this?: https://www.buybrakes.com/ram-3500-...15-slotted-rotors-and-orange-stuff-brake-pads

 

[Firebird]

That SSBC kit looks sweet!

 

[gimmie11s]

Increasing the Stopping Power of a 2017 Ram 2500

It doesn’t matter whether a truck is brand new or if it’s been in the fleet for years. At some point, most owners consider ways to modify their trucks. Lifting

www.trucktrend.com

It does require a wheel upgrade, but it was what I was considering for my 2500 at one time.

Those are awesome! Im sure a substantial weight savings too... very nice.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

The factory brakes are plenty unless you’re overloaded or following too closely.

If you just want to spend some money on your truck, go for it.

 

[Bandit400]

The factory brakes are plenty unless you’re overloaded or following too closely.

If you just want to spend some money on your truck, go for it.

Will be within axle weight ratings but not GVWR, at times, once loaded. The HOs have slightly larger brakes in the rear and larger AAM12 axle than SO to provide a bit more cushion.

 

[Bandit400]

If you can point me to where you found that information I would be interested in learning more. The 2021 HD specifications sheet from FCA does not identify any difference in the rear brakes.

View attachment 15744

Check out engineer video around 9:00 minute mark: Rear 358mm rotors standard and 365mm with Max Tow which is standard on HOs AAM12 rear axle.

 

[Bandit400]

Awesome find @Bandit400 and thanks for sharing with us! That's great information to have available.

Can’t claim entire credit here for the video. Been posted on this forum before

 

[Bandit400]

Thanks for the feedback. My primary objective here is to provide additional safety margin and definitely more brake pedal response during emergency/short distance braking. The two piston floating design of the stock calipers is standard OEM non-performance oriented braking but should definitely meet the needs of the typical use of the vehicle. Agree the right decision is go with a 5500 which has larger overall payload and brakes to go with it (15.3 inch rotor with same floating 2 piston type calipers vs 14.2 inch rotors on the 3500). Although some of that extra capacity goes towards stopping that extra mass of the 5500 platform itself. Just not sure I want to go down that road right now. With the load I am running that is pushing up to the max of the 3500 capacity, having a bit of extra insurance in the braking area I feel will be worth the premium on those 8 pot calipers. One way to find out, I think I am going to give them a try. I will report back

Well, it looks like the SSBC-USA 8 Piston Calipers kit is not going to be an option for us Ram 3500 DRW owners. I called the SSBC-USA company and asked if this kit would fit under our stock 17 inch dually wheels and their response was that it won't fit. So looks like stock brakes will have to make do I suggested to the customer service rep to add a note to their website indicating the kit wont fit DRW RAM 3500s.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Well, it looks like the SSBC-USA 8 Piston Calipers kit is not going to be an option for us Ram 3500 DRW owners. I called the SSBC-USA company and asked if this kit would fit under our stock 17 inch dually wheels and their response was that it won't fit. So looks like stock brakes will have to make do I suggested to the customer service rep to add a note to their website indicating the kit wont fit DRW RAM 3500s.

Open your wallet further and Get bigger wheels

 

[Dakrt23]

Instead of buying Calipers why not upgrade the pads and rotors with something like this?: https://www.buybrakes.com/ram-3500-...15-slotted-rotors-and-orange-stuff-brake-pads

I swap everything of mine over to ebc and every time I’m super impressed with the improvement in brake feel and bite with their products .. can’t wait to burn through stock and put that kit in.

 

[Dakrt23]

Check out engineer video around 9:00 minute mark: Rear 358mm rotors standard and 365mm with Max Tow which is standard on HOs AAM12 rear axle.

Just to be clear, in the video he states the larger rear rotors are with max tow package not just any HO. I looked up the max tow package and it is the 4.10 drw rear diff only with those bigger brakes. Seems if you have SRW HO you have standard rear 3500 rear brakes.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Just to be clear, in the video he states the larger rear rotors are with max tow package not just any HO. I looked up the max tow package and it is the 4.10 drw rear diff only with those bigger brakes. Seems if you have SRW HO you have standard rear 3500 rear brakes.

I believe that's correct and had been confirmed in a thread here last year.

360mm on all 2500/3500 front
358mm on all 2500/3500 rear
365mm on the Max Tow Dually 4.10 rear

 

[Brutal_HO]

Thanks for the feedback. My primary objective here is to provide additional safety margin and definitely more brake pedal response during emergency/short distance braking. The two piston floating design of the stock calipers is standard OEM non-performance oriented braking but should definitely meet the needs of the typical use of the vehicle. Agree the right decision is go with a 5500 which has larger overall payload and brakes to go with it (15.3 inch rotor with same floating 2 piston type calipers vs 14.2 inch rotors on the 3500). Although some of that extra capacity goes towards stopping that extra mass of the 5500 platform itself. Just not sure I want to go down that road right now. With the load I am running that is pushing up to the max of the 3500 capacity, having a bit of extra insurance in the braking area I feel will be worth the premium on those 8 pot calipers. One way to find out, I think I am going to give them a try. I will report back

With Hydro-boost I'm not sure you're going to get improved pedal response.

 

[Bandit400]

I believe that's correct and had been confirmed in a thread here last year.

360mm on all 2500/3500 front
358mm on all 2500/3500 rear
365mm on the Max Tow Dually 4.10 rear

Interesting, My HO has 4.10 so that definitely has the max tow larger rotors. My calipers also had a sticker on them calling out max tow. Would be curious if a non 4.10 HO also have these stickers assuming they haven’t fallen off yet. That would be a possible way to confirm if it’s only 4.10 optioned HOs that have max tow calipers/rotors. I didn’t specially order a max tow package, just opted for 4.10s axle ratio.

 

[rb92673]

Interesting, My HO has 4.10 so that definitely has the max tow larger rotors. My calipers also had a sticker on them calling out max tow. Would be curious if a non 4.10 HO also have these stickers assuming they haven’t fallen off yet. That would be a possible way to confirm if it’s only 4.10 optioned HOs that have max tow calipers/rotors. I didn’t specially order a max tow package, just opted for 4.10s axle ratio.
View attachment 16161

If the calipers are different, it is possible the master cylinder is different.