Exceeding Payload with Auto Leveling Rear Suspension

[bravofisk]

Looking at buying a new 2020 Ram 3500 with the rear auto leveling suspension. I'm curious if there's a weight limit with these airbags to where it will throw a warning/error light and not level correctly? If so, does anyone know how far beyond the payload would this happen? I currently have a 2015 Ram 1500 with 4 corner air suspension and once you get a few hundred pounds (approximately) heavier than payload capacity it throws a warning and won't level correctly.

Calculating the weight of 5th wheel RV, family in truck, etc and payload in new 2020 Ram 3500 SRW is only 3600 pounds (according to Rams website when inputing VIN) im going to be over by a couple hundred pounds. Would you be concerned about this?

 

[Brutal_HO]

Speculation is 10-15% over the payload, 500-600 lbs will trigger the overload limit indicator and "disable" the system. that just means it stops pumping to compensate/level, it doesn't deflate.

Where are you getting 3600lbs payload? What model/trim? Sounds like a SB truck My 2020 CCLB Limited (no sunroof) is 3707.

Are you going over GVWR or actual payload?
Do you know your real and actual road ready pin weight?

P.S. Skip the 20 and get a 21 with the new CP-ISB21 fuel pump.

Welcome to HDRams.

 

[Jimmy07]

Looking at buying a new 2020 Ram 3500 with the rear auto leveling suspension. I'm curious if there's a weight limit with these airbags to where it will throw a warning/error light and not level correctly? If so, does anyone know how far beyond the payload would this happen? I currently have a 2015 Ram 1500 with 4 corner air suspension and once you get a few hundred pounds (approximately) heavier than payload capacity it throws a warning and won't level correctly.

Calculating the weight of 5th wheel RV, family in truck, etc and payload in new 2020 Ram 3500 SRW is only 3600 pounds (according to Rams website when inputing VIN) im going to be over by a couple hundred pounds. Would you be concerned about this?

I’d say the capacity of the air suspension to where it will throw the message is close to the difference of the rear axle weight rating and the rear axle base weight. So, 7000 minus about 2800 leaves about 4200 lbs the air suspension should auto level up to. It definitely won’t be based on payload, because keep in mind the exact same system is used on the hemis, which have about 1000 lbs more payload.
I do know that the 2500HD system, which is a little different than the one used on the 3500s, will kick the message at about 3500 lbs pin weight.

 

[bravofisk]

I talked to some others on forums today about the specific fifth wheel I’m looking at getting and fully loaded with gear etc the pin weight is right about 4,000lbs on the scale. So 4,000 pounds plus passengers and any other gear I have in the truck should be what I’m comparing to the trucks rated payload, correct? Having been shopping around for the past few weeks it seems hard to find a payload of about 4,500 pounds, although i see SRW Ram 3500’s towing this exact fifth wheel at RV parks pretty frequently. So.. trying to figure this out. Is everyone just going over the payload rating? Or am I missing something? The truck I’m looking at says 3,600 payload on the Ram website. It’s a 3500 Laramie with HO Cummins, short bed, 4x4, electronic running boards, auto leveling suspension, 20” wheels. Anyways now I’m second guessing if thats going to be enough truck for what I want to pull. Also, FWIW when I’m traveling I’m usually doing several thousand miles at a time.

 

[Jimmy07]

I talked to some others on forums today about the specific fifth wheel I’m looking at getting and fully loaded with gear etc the pin weight is right about 4,000lbs on the scale. So 4,000 pounds plus passengers and any other gear I have in the truck should be what I’m comparing to the trucks rated payload, correct? Having been shopping around for the past few weeks it seems hard to find a payload of about 4,500 pounds, although i see SRW Ram 3500’s towing this exact fifth wheel at RV parks pretty frequently. So.. trying to figure this out. Is everyone just going over the payload rating? Or am I missing something? The truck I’m looking at says 3,600 payload on the Ram website. It’s a 3500 Laramie with HO Cummins, short bed, 4x4, electronic running boards, auto leveling suspension, 20” wheels. Anyways now I’m second guessing if thats going to be enough truck for what I want to pull. Also, FWIW when I’m traveling I’m usually doing several thousand miles at a time.

Axle weight ratings/ tire ratings, and properly registered gross vehicle weight (not to be confused with gross vehicle weight rating).

 

[Boscowtx]

My 2020 Ram dually 3500 with Ram air has a payload of 5278, tow a fifth wheel with a pin weight of 3300lbs, zero problems. Ya might need a dually with that much pin weight.

 

[teez52]

I can tell you typically on an air suspension truck program from an OEM, GVWR is the target load for what the springs can actually handle in a dynamic event. Now, the air suspension system "should" estimate the load on the rear axle, how accurate that is on the 3500 air system, I'm not sure. typically figure in a range of +/- 50-80lbs as the tolerance. In the software, there should be a limit where it no longer allows leveling and that should set some sort of telltail on the cluster. The system will not deflate automatically just because you're overweight, but you will have to deal with the telltale and whatever ride height it stops at.

On the plus side, typically if you load the truck then allow it to level, after it levels is when it will estimate the load. So basically what this means is you get one shot to load the thing then let it level before it will shut you down.

Now remember what I said at the beginning, this doesn't mean you can just go blowing past the GVWR because the springs are only designed to handle a certain dynamic pressure. So if you're driving over the limit (which typically sets a fault too so the dealer will know), you won't be able to expect the same durability out of the air bags.

Disclaimer: I'm just a guy on the internet so do whatever you want.

 

[Brutal_HO]

If you're going to be over the limit of the air suspension equipped truck and really need to stay SRW then aftermarket air on a truck without the option and sufficiently capable wheels/tires rated to carry the load while not exceeding the axle rating is the best option next to a dually.

You probably should really consider a dually. 4K is an awful lot of pin weight for an SRW before you even factor people, gear and hitch.

Why shortbed?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Your gonna want a long box dually unless you are going to some wildly heavy ply tires that can handle the weight the springs and what not will be fine the bag system may complain its the tires im worried about as most 10 ply are 3600 at 80psi each load rating so 7200lbs on the rear axle does not give you the load index you need for that much pin weight if you roughly factor in the truck weight and pin weight your already over

 

[Billcf7]

I remember someone saying they blew a rear bag on here. May have been on a 2500 because thats all you have is a bag for suspension

 

[Brutal_HO]

I remember someone saying they blew a rear bag on here. May have been on a 2500 because thats all you have is a bag for suspension

The Hoff?

I think he was running his 3500 without alt trailer height and a borderline (or over) pin weight and hit a wicked road dip/cut. I believe he's since moved up to a dually for that same (or bigger?) trailer.

 

[thestuarts]

If you're going to be over the limit of the air suspension equipped truck and really need to stay SRW then aftermarket air on a truck without the option and sufficiently capable wheels/tires rated to carry the load while not exceeding the axle rating is the best option next to a dually.

You probably should really consider a dually. 4K is an awful lot of pin weight for an SRW before you even factor people, gear and hitch.

Why shortbed?

I agree with Brutal. I have a 2019 3500 SRW with 3869 payload. I wouldn't put a 4,000 lb pin weight trailer on my truck even though it is only 131 lbs over the payload rating. As Brutal said, the 4k pin weight doesn't include the weight of passengers, pets, gear, hitch, toolbox, tonneau cover, tire upgrades, suspension upgrades, HD bumpers, winch, tire chains, offroad lights, or anything else. You will probably be close to 1,000 lbs over payload rating.

If you are in an accident, there is the rumored possibility that you could be ticketed and your insurance company may deny your claim for exceeded the capacity of the vehicle, although I've not heard any first-hand testimonials of insurance claims being denied.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I agree with Brutal. I have a 2019 3500 SRW with 3869 payload. I wouldn't put a 4,000 lb pin weight trailer on my truck even though it is only 131 lbs over the payload rating. As Brutal said, the 4k pin weight doesn't include the weight of passengers, pets, gear, hitch, toolbox, tonneau cover, tire upgrades, suspension upgrades, HD bumpers, winch, tire chains, offroad lights, or anything else. You will probably be close to 1,000 lbs over payload rating.

If you are in an accident, there is the rumored possibility that you could be ticketed and your insurance company may deny your claim for exceeded the capacity of the vehicle, although I've not heard any first-hand testimonials of insurance claims being denied.

Not to go too far OT but I've spoken to several agents and the insurance co will still pay out for "stupid" unless they can prove malicious/gross negligence (like posting online about it). Doesn't mean you can't be taken in civil court for everything you own by another injured party.

 

[leo319]

I'd go with a dually or order without factory suspensions and add your own. I went through almost the same thing as you did. Came for a 1500 with a 4 air suspension and pushed the payload almost twice its capacity and I was amazed how well the the air suspension did considering the amount of weight. My application changes so I went with a 3500 SRW with factory air, my payload door sticker was 3300+- lbs and I loaded closed to 4000 (seen on avatar image). It threw a light on the dash for exceeding payload, and the engine brake would not engage when going loaded downhill. Took it to the dealership and they advised against exceeding the payload capacity as all codes were saved on the computer.

Fast forward a year later and hours of research, I bought a dually without factory air suspension. I added airlift suspension with a remote control and LOVE it! much better than factory in my opinion, and no codes to be thrown if exceed my payload (5250lbs at sticker door)...I need to update a photo of the dually..

I learned the hard way, hope my mistakes save you time and money..