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CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

CabChassis Mike said:
I just purchased a 2020 RAM 3500 Cab Chassis with 6.7 Cummins.
I am so disappointed to learn of the RAM trucks being manufactured with KNOWN FAULTY fuel pump components. To think I traded a TOYOTA for this RAM time Bomb is UNBELIEVEBLE.
I am a Military Veteran and Disabled Veteran, if my vehicle breaks down due to this CP 4 issue I expect to be taken care of... this is unbelieveble to say the least...
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I'm not a vet, but I find this sort of entitlement to be a bit much. I think you should hope to be taken care of because you bought an expensive truck that is supposed to be durable with a long life, not because you held a specific job title. Furthermore, you purchased a truck in the second year of this "known faulty" pump. If you choose not to do due diligence then that is on you.

That said, Toyota isn't without fault. Remember their recall on frames splitting in half? They ended up taking care of the problem. Hopefully FCA will also take care of us. I am impressed with how they handled the AC issue (of which my truck suffers) and so considering the high cost and fact that it's not really a brand ruining issue I expect the CP4 issue to also be taken care of in a satisfactory manner. Time will tell but for the moment I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

Welcome to the forum. Hopefully you find value in the site and this you will stick around for more than a fly by.
 
How comical, I guess every forum has "the premadona"...
I never said entitled anywhere, the pre Madonna did.
what I should have said was " what a pain it would be to unload my wheelchair and catch a ride should the CP4 fail on me."
yes hoping the warranty would cover it.
when I bought this truck the Sales GM was a Vietnam Vet and we hit it off well- he bent over backwards to give me a great deal, best RAM Cummins deal I've ever gotten.
the disappointment comes now knowing RAM used a notoriously known bad component that will fail on a "commercial truck" like the chassis cabs or even an HO engine.
thanks guys!
 
CabChassis Mike said:
I just purchased a 2020 RAM 3500 Cab Chassis with 6.7 Cummins.
I am so disappointed to learn of the RAM trucks being manufactured with KNOWN FAULTY fuel pump components. To think I traded a TOYOTA for this RAM time Bomb is UNBELIEVEBLE.
I am a Military Veteran and Disabled Veteran, if my vehicle breaks down due to this CP 4 issue I expect to be taken care of... this is unbelieveble to say the least...
Click to expand...

CabChassis Mike said:
How comical, I guess every forum has "the premadona"...
I never said entitled anywhere, the pre Madonna did.
what I should have said was " what a pain it would be to unload my wheelchair and catch a ride should the CP4 fail on me."
yes hoping the warranty would cover it.
when I bought this truck the Sales GM was a Vietnam Vet and we hit it off well- he bent over backwards to give me a great deal, best RAM Cummins deal I've ever gotten.
the disappointment comes now knowing RAM used a notoriously known bad component that will fail on a "commercial truck" like the chassis cabs or even an HO engine.
thanks guys!
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure right there you said you're a vet and disabled vet, and if your truck breaks down due to CP4 you expect to be taken care of.

Looks an awful lot like you're expecting special treatment due to your service.

As another pointed out you should have simply said you bought an expensive new vehicle, you expect to be taken care of if it fails.
 
Research,research,research... Before I ordered my 19 one of the fist tuber vids I watched the guy popped the lid and said...uuhhh it’s a CP4...not sure how that’s gunna work out! So shame on me but the little guy in my head said this pump will be here for ever so might as well order now :rolleyes:
 
Yes indeed,
hoping for the best but with an effected year RAM model, expecting the worst.
thanks for your input.
 
Great White North Eh said:
Research,research,research... Before I ordered my 19 one of the fist tuber vids I watched the guy popped the lid and said...uuhhh it’s a CP4...not sure how that’s gunna work out! So shame on me but the little guy in my head said this pump will be here for ever so might as well order now :rolleyes:
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I did the same.... knowing the real facts not forum facts i made the decision to buy my 19 have not regretted it yet....
 
H3LZSN1P3R said:
Better chance of getting the mythical corona virus than blowing a cp4.... you still have a hell of alot more truck than any toyota!
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Yes Sir!
I was always "overworking my Toyota, poor thing...
I got extremely lucky in my trade in, been eyeing the 3500 Chassis Cab for awhile. Dealer had it sitting there over 90 days, so I was able to get an unbelievable deal.
Hoping you are right, I also have a 2017 3500 Cummins/Aisin, so when I began looking into this CP 4 business,I could not believe what I read...
I love my RAM trucks, and pray nothing happens to the 2020 Chassis Cab, even de tuned it is amazing...
 
CabChassis Mike said:
Yes indeed,
hoping for the best but with an effected year RAM model, expecting the worst.
thanks for your input.
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81b2db0b8758987dbbdaa786a200b7e1.jpg

There is always this option for you as well. The conversion I did with a week of use and some heavy towing has proven a good choice for my application.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
H3LZSN1P3R said:
I did the same.... knowing the real facts not forum facts i made the decision to buy my 19 have not regretted it yet....
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Sorry, when you say real facts not forum facts you're implying that you have data those of us on the forum do not. Do you have hard data on the number of failures? If not then it sounds like a "well my truck has been fine" argument.
 
UglyViking said:
Sorry, when you say real facts not forum facts you're implying that you have data those of us on the forum do not. Do you have hard data on the number of failures? If not then it sounds like a "well my truck has been fine" argument.
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No its going off the fact some people spew ******** and also people who sign up post once and then are never on again...
 
H3LZSN1P3R said:
No its going off the fact some people spew ******** and also people who sign up post once and then are never on again...
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That's true, there are also a fair amount of "it didn't happen to me so the issue is overblown". Sadly in our day and age facts seem to come in all shapes and sizes. My comment to you would be that unless you have hard data behind your claim then there is no difference in "real facts" and "forum facts" as they are both simply opinion.
 
It will cost Ram a lot of money to replace all the CP-4's in the 2019/2020 but boy would that be a great play for FCA against the other 2 and their class action lawsuits. Not to mention how good it would be as a marketing pitch towards Customer Care.
 
I think everyone realizes there have been CP4 failures, and those of us who have this pump, also realize we could see a failure with it. I don't think that because "mine didn't fail its over blown", it just means it hasn't failed for whatever reason. My 2014 EcoDiesel had the CP4 pump and failure issues was a topic on the Eco forum site as well, but I never had an issue and put over 110,000+ miles on it. In the forum post on this site, Aketay has a 2019 CTD that he uses to tow commercially, fuels up all over the country, and currently has 133,000+ miles on his truck without any fuel pump problem. So why do some pumps fail, and why do others not and go onto 100,000's of miles? For me this is my only vehicle so I drive it and don't worry about it, if it fails it is what it is, and I'll deal with it at that time.

https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/cp4-2-and-current-mileage-and-build-date.3636/#post-55125
 
CabChassis Mike said:
How comical, I guess every forum has "the premadona"...
I never said entitled anywhere, the pre Madonna did.
what I should have said was " what a pain it would be to unload my wheelchair and catch a ride should the CP4 fail on me."
yes hoping the warranty would cover it.
when I bought this truck the Sales GM was a Vietnam Vet and we hit it off well- he bent over backwards to give me a great deal, best RAM Cummins deal I've ever gotten.
the disappointment comes now knowing RAM used a notoriously known bad component that will fail on a "commercial truck" like the chassis cabs or even an HO engine.
thanks guys
Click to expand...
CabChassis Mike,
Welcome to the forum!
I totally understood what you were saying in your original post about your concerns driving a new truck with a CP4 pump. I have a 2019 with a CP4. I too, hope Ram makes it right and will stand with their customers and not lay down.
I totally understand that your concerns are amplified by the fact that you are disabled, and I understood that concern with your post, Not that you expected special treatment because you are a vet. However, I do think you deserve special treatment for you service, but I know don’t expect it. I’ve been to the funerals of some of my close friends that died while serving with me, so I‘m going to stand with you and not jump to terrible assumptions about how you wrote or worded something. It makes some people feel big to call you out, behind a keyboard of course.
 
leeroy300 said:
It will cost Ram a lot of money to replace all the CP-4's in the 2019/2020 but boy would that be a great play for FCA against the other 2 and their class action lawsuits. Not to mention how good it would be as a marketing pitch towards Customer Care.
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leeroy this isn't directed at you just responding to sort of follow up with my thoughts. I was not able to find exact numbers of Ram cummins HD trucks, as Ram does not publish those numbers to my knowledge. That said, GM does a breakdown of their HD vs 1500 truck sales, assuming it's relatively similar I was able to calculate that roughly 26% of GM trucks sold are HD trucks. I have no clue how many of the total HD trucks are diesel but for arguments sake lets say 80% of all 2500/3500 trucks are diesel. Here are some quick numbers using 26% of all ram trucks as HD and 80% of that being diesel.

Total 2020 Ram truck sales563281
Total 2019 Ram truck sales633694
Total 2019-2020 Ram truck sales that are HD (26% of the combined numbers above)311213
Total 2019-2020 Ram trucks with a 6.7 cummins (80% of the above number)248970

Now lets assume that for some odd reason FCA is paying some absurdly high price on the CP3 pump, it's still going to be cheaper, by a lot, than what you could buy it for over the counter or online. I'll go with the assumption that FCA is paying 80% of what a Bosch CP3 would go for on the market and we will call it $650. So, to replace every current 2019-2020 truck with a CP3 let's call it $1,000 with labor and parts. I think this is realistically on the super high side of things but for arguments sake it's simple. So to replace every CP4 equipped truck with a CP3 we are talking $248,970,000 thats a ton of coin. Now consider that in 2020 alone FCA brought home 7.3 billion in pre-tax earnings. Assuming they did a little less the year before we are still talking about a 250 million debt against a 14 billion profit, or 1.47% of pre-tax earnings. Is that a lot? Depends on the perspective I suppose.

One other thing to keep in mind is that each failure of the CP4 costs prob 8-12k at the FCA level using similar guesses. Assuming the absolute lowest on this (8k per truck) that means that 13% of all trucks equipped with a CP4 would have to fail for this to be a cost beneficial move. I have no idea how high the number of failures is but I would be surprised to hear it's anywhere in the double digit failure rate. That said, you still have to take into account things like brand perception, Cummins pressuring FCA as it makes their engines look bad, and the fact that they only used the pumps for 2 years and while there are owners who have well over 100k miles without fail most of these trucks probably have lower numbers and owners who are religiously using fuel additives and such to keep the pump alive, as time goes on that may slip and thus change the overall failure rate.

There is a ton of speculation here, but I think it's an interesting conversation none the less and I'll be eagerly awaiting to see how FCA handles this as that is probably the biggest sign of my long term standing with the brand.
 
Heckyl said:
CabChassis Mike,
Welcome to the forum!
I totally understood what you were saying in your original post about your concerns driving a new truck with a CP4 pump. I have a 2019 with a CP4. I too, hope Ram makes it right and will stand with their customers and not lay down.
I totally understand that your concerns are amplified by the fact that you are disabled, and I understood that concern with your post, Not that you expected special treatment because you are a vet. However, I do think you deserve special treatment for you service, but I know don’t expect it. I’ve been to the funerals of some of my close friends that died while serving with me, so I‘m going to stand with you and not jump to terrible assumptions about how you wrote or worded something. It makes some people feel big to call you out, behind a keyboard of course.
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I've got no desire to get into an elongated discussion on this but as it seems at least partially directed at me I'll make a final comment.

I'm not going to defend my position on supporting our troops, or any of that. I am only going to call out that to me, that comment came off as very entitled. If it wasn't intended that way then fine but we are on an online forum where it's impossible to read body language or tone. Because of that your word choice is important and if you use language that is incorrect and someone calls you out on it I think it's fair game. As the OP on the topic clarified he was trying to share what an annoyance it is for him.

I'm fine with getting called a prima donna or "premadona" as OP stated and whatever other things you wanna throw. That said, he has his opinion on the matter, I've got mine. That is the last I'll say on the topic so if anyone wants the final word, by all means…
 
UglyViking said:
I've got no desire to get into an elongated discussion on this but as it seems at least partially directed at me I'll make a final comment.

I'm not going to defend my position on supporting our troops, or any of that. I am only going to call out that to me, that comment came off as very entitled. If it wasn't intended that way then fine but we are on an online forum where it's impossible to read body language or tone. Because of that your word choice is important and if you use language that is incorrect and someone calls you out on it I think it's fair game. As the OP on the topic clarified he was trying to share what an annoyance it is for him.

I'm fine with getting called a prima donna or "premadona" as OP stated and whatever other things you wanna throw. That said, he has his opinion on the matter, I've got mine. That is the last I'll say on the topic so if anyone wants the final word, by all means…
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Word...
 
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