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CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

Epsilon Plus said:
Everyone is forgetting the Dimple when talking about the switch being guilt admission. They revised the pump for just a few short months of production before changing the design out entirely!

That's how much of an emergency this was. A global automaker does not spend that kind of money and effort on a band-aid fix to cross the MY finish line. Enough with this 5%-7% failure crap. Those numbers are from additive MFGs.

The 19-20 Asym CP4 was a big enough problem that they crammed out an emergency fix with no official documentation on WHY right before scrapping the whole design, that's all you need to know about how bad this was for them.

FCA doesn't have a leg to stand on for denials anymore for anyone who actually puts up a fight. Now the big question of whether they bastard year the 19-mid20s or do the right thing and get them sorted out. It's up to us who spent big money on these trucks in 19-20 to not let this die down and just go away or they will have much less motivation. IF they do the right thing, it will go a very long way in the enthusiast community for reputation. It's a way for people to point to a fact on why their favorite brand is better compared to the status quo of Ford/GM in doing the "sucks for you" route.
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Agreed
 
Brutal_HO said:
Please provide links to more than one known warranty denial on a CP4.2 - not including commercial fleet. Otherwise it's just BS internet gossip.

AFAIK, there's been only one well know denial. Had the owner retained all fuel receipts, that would likely not have occurred.
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Who retains fuels receipts unless one needs them for taxes? And then a credit card statement suffices.

So if there is not a URL that proves something occurred, it never happened?
 
Epsilon Plus said:
Everyone is forgetting the Dimple when talking about the switch being guilt admission. They revised the pump for just a few short months of production before changing the design out entirely!

That's how much of an emergency this was. A global automaker does not spend that kind of money and effort on a band-aid fix to cross the MY finish line. Enough with this 5%-7% failure crap. Those numbers are from additive MFGs.

The 19-20 Asym CP4 was a big enough problem that they crammed out an emergency fix with no official documentation on WHY right before scrapping the whole design, that's all you need to know about how bad this was for them.

FCA doesn't have a leg to stand on for denials anymore for anyone who actually puts up a fight. Now the big question of whether they bastard year the 19-mid20s or do the right thing and get them sorted out. It's up to us who spent big money on these trucks in 19-20 to not let this die down and just go away or they will have much less motivation. IF they do the right thing, it will go a very long way in the enthusiast community for reputation. It's a way for people to point to a fact on why their favorite brand is better compared to the status quo of Ford/GM in doing the "sucks for you" route.
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Are you implying that the failure percentages are higher or lower?
 
Much higher. With no way to prove it. Just my opinion based on things talked about in other threads like "CP4 Changes".

That's the thing. Nobody knows with proof except FCA and maybe Cummins. Some say 7% because that's what HSS said in a pod cast. Some say 7% because that's what the Morgan & Morgan class action cites on the OLD DMax case.

Again, there's no way FCA slams out a sym dimple pump revision just to scrap the design a few months later if it isn't a major issue. Also, again, without saying anything about WHY they revised it. These automakers design stuff way in advance of us ever knowing about it.

I know there are ardent CP4/FCA defenders thinking this is drummed up fervor. There's a few on this forum and a few on FB groups. Some there are still even ready to die on the hill of 21 still gets CP4 thinking all the videos and pics and testimonials are a conspiracy to prank us.

The evidence is all there and for a single part design issue, it doesn't get much more damning than this.
 
A lot of guys have asked about the HO CP3 confirmation, does anyone have hard evidence (photos) of this yet?

I am curious for random knowledge, how does the denso hp4 compare to the cp3 if fca goes that route further down the line?
 
So can anyone here come up with a decent cost estimate, per vehicle, for FCA to do a fuel pump exchange?
 
saltman said:
A lot of guys have asked about the HO CP3 confirmation, does anyone have hard evidence (photos) of this yet?

I am curious for random knowledge, how does the denso hp4 compare to the cp3 if fca goes that route further down the line?
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A member here confirmed all 2021 HD models received the CP3. However, I do not think there is actual photos that have surfaced just yet! I will also be looking for more information on this!
 
So each repair would cost FCA about $4500, that's a large chunk of $$$ needed to write off if issuing recall. What's possible factor(s) could convince FCA to go through it? Far as I know a fuel pump is not a safety issue, is that correct?
 
BLuRRnAWAY said:
A member here confirmed all 2021 HD models received the CP3. However, I do not think there is actual photos that have surfaced just yet! I will also be looking for more information on this!
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IMG_3352.jpg
This one from a 12/20 build model year 2021.
 
BLuRRnAWAY said:
Well, there you have it, confirmed image! CP3 HO 2021
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I just dropped it off at the upfitters. If anyone also wants to know you can reach out to star which is Cummins warranty team and they will tell you. I have been dealing with them for 5years now being a FCA warranty writer. I get to deal with everything on the back end and get the blow back from both sides.
 
diablo82 said:
So each repair would cost FCA about $4500, that's a large chunk of $$$ needed to write off if issuing recall. What's possible factor(s) could convince FCA to go through it? Far as I know a fuel pump is not a safety issue, is that correct?
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You are correct technically it’s not part of the safety system. So that’s why star is working on things to get things figured out. All you can do is make a complaint with FCA and nhtsa. For an example look at Gm and FMCO they used them and FMCO still is using them and they have a less than 3% failure rate. And there was class actions that were dismissed easily in court. So hopefully FCA learned something here and leaves it alone.
 
mostcorey95 said:
You are correct technically it’s not part of the safety system. So that’s why star is working on things to get things figured out. All you can do is make a complaint with FCA and nhtsa. For an example look at Gm and FMCO they used them and FMCO still is using them and they have a less than 3% failure rate. And there was class actions that were dismissed easily in court. So hopefully FCA learned something here and leaves it alone.
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How do we make a complaint to fca
 
diablo82 said:
So each repair would cost FCA about $4500, that's a large chunk of $$$ needed to write off if issuing recall. What's possible factor(s) could convince FCA to go through it? Far as I know a fuel pump is not a safety issue, is that correct?
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It could be a safety issue in the NHTSAs eyes because it can instantly render the vehicle inoperable in a myriad of potentially bad traffic situations. This was backed up by a Texas court/Judge in a very not dismissed ongoing CP4 case against GM.

In addition, the judge commented on any suggestion the risk of sudden CP4 failure doesn't cause a safety risk.

"The worst case scenario of a truck spontaneously stalling at high speeds is not a mere inconvenience. Nor is it a mere inconvenience to spend between $8,000 to $20,000 on repairs to make the trucks fit for their ordinary purpose. The Court rejects GM's suggestion that the risk of spontaneous engine failure while driving is not, as a matter of law, unreasonably dangerous, depriving the vehicles of fitness for their purpose of transportation."
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GM CP4 Class Action Lawsuit Moves Ahead

A GM CP4 class action lawsuit alleges the Bosch high-pressure fuel injection pumps are destroyed by U.S. diesel fuel because the pumps were manufactured for European diesel standards.
www.carcomplaints.com
 
This really could be an great opportunity for FCA/RAM to shine. While the other two auto companies rather lawyer up to dodge a bullet, if FCA could make this right for their customers it could potentially help them to gain more market share... of course with an expensive price.
 
diablo82 said:
This really could be an great opportunity for FCA/RAM to shine. While the other two auto companies rather lawyer up to dodge a bullet, if FCA could make this right for their customers it could potentially help them to gain more market share... of course with an expensive price.
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Agreed. Didn't they do some re-designing on the CP4, later models would be corrected of this issue?
 
RV_Goose said:
Who retains fuels receipts unless one needs them for taxes? And then a credit card statement suffices.

So if there is not a URL that proves something occurred, it never happened?
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I retain the receipts, you do whatever you feel is best.

When it comes to the internet, you either have first hand experience or can provide a source, then I'll believe it.
 
Brutal_HO said:
I retain the receipts, you do whatever you feel is best.

When it comes to the internet, you either have first hand experience or can provide a source, then I'll believe it.
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I use the app fuelly and record mileage location amount pump number and a picture of the receipt and pump. So I have the record.
 
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