Def issues rant @ramcare

[Pressure_welder]

Good day fellows/ladies! So this is a bit of a rant and iam sure most can share the same experience.

I have a 22 ram 5500 laramie for my welding rig. its also my daily driver family vehicle. Its to say the least one of the most important tools i have. It is the biggest money maker in my business and also drives my kiddos to hockey and school ! I had def issues early on, on the injector line at 5000KM got the lovely service def system and countdown. They were able to fix it by insulating that def injector line.

fast forward to 68,000KM i have a check engine light, and a P20B9.... def tank heater/pump are kaput. I guess maybe thats a decent service life span? i dno. Anyway its winter here now so dealerships are obviously piling up with trucks. I call my dealer to make an appointment thinking maybe it'll be same week to week and a half out to get in for a new pump/heater. DEC 20th is the earliest date they can get me in... we have two in town. We have a couple more two hrs away but also booking into janurary! just lack of diesel technician staff blah blah. So i discuss with the service manager..... what the heck am i supposed to do? this truck is literally my money maker. His answer is to just drive the truck until it sends me to limp mode and park it until its my appointment time on dec. 20th. So as a business owner this just simply isnt doable let alone being is a daily driver.

To me..... were spending 100K + on these trucks i feel there should be an excepted level of service that comes along with that 100,000$ and over a month out and being told to just park your truck is unacceptable in my opinion. SO! i start looking at other options, a friend of mine owns a large diesel/heavy equipment repair shop.... all he does is delete trucks and do major overhauls on cummins/cat blah blah. I tell him my issues and he says gimmie one min. Calls back and says your OEM pump/heater is in stock and i can install it for you this weekend if you want. Without hesitation i say absolutely thankyou so much! insane service! Heres the rub though. I spoke to the service manager at ram and even though i am totally under warranty still the work NEEDS to be done by a certified ram dealership. I understand this and appreciate it. However the insane wait times and lack of service make a person search for outside options to keep there 100k truck going! So regardless i bit the bullet and will have my qualified diesel mechanic friend do the install so my truck will be back to the correct working order. But i think it is absolutely obscene that you cant have another qualified mechanic replace a pump that is almost as much work as a fuel filter replacement. Iam almost positive i wont be reimbursed by ram for this work on their faulty product even though i am well within warranty. I am going to fight to at least get reimbursed for the faulty pump ill gladly suck up the labor costs to keep my truck on the road.

i guess the point of my post is.... if you excpect to sell youre trucks for an absolute premium.... premium service should come along with that purchase. Being told you have to wait a month to even be looked at.... and that you should just park your truck until your appointment is shocking. I get its not RAM who owns these dealerships, but there should be some more accommodation when it comes to these emissions systems to get them working again and peoples trucks back on the road. There's nothing wrong with using independent comapnies, some of these diesel mechanics know more about these trucks than the certified ram guys. Its all just frustrating!

 

[flan]

@RamCares

 

[Great White North Eh]

I started parts shopping for my 19 today … and it ain’t for a DeF heater . The emissions crap is not designed for our climate fer sure! Water injection …good God. The weather here will freeze the balls off a brass monkey little lone your nozzle hanging out in the wind.

 

[Pressure_welder]

I started parts shopping for my 19 today … and it ain’t for a DeF heater . The emissions crap is not designed for our climate fer sure! Water injection …good God. The weather here will freeze the balls off a brass monkey little lone your nozzle hanging out in the wind.

i took a long hard look at deleting as well back when i had my original issues with the def injector line. That little stunt lost me quite a bit of money business wise as the truck was down for collectively a month by the time they figured out what to do. The service foreman is a friend so we were chatting in his office. I was so frustrated i said i am just going to go delete this sack of garbage and be done with it. Ive deleted every truck ive owned since ive owned 2011, luckily we knew the dealership owner and he honored warranty through his dealership even though we were deleted. But he was a GM dealer, once i moved to ram i lost that luxury.

so my buddy at the RAM dealer i sitting at his desk and whole heartedly agrees with deleting. BUT he said Ram is more strict than ever before with computer tampering and he was explaining to me the steps they go to now in order to reject warranty. So bad that during engine failures they go back in the history log to see if the oil changes were done at a ram dealership. Anyway what really changed my outlook on deleting was this.... he said have a look at this..... cracked block on a 2022 3500 DRW, then he slides over the bill for a complete new engine install.... 32,000$ and change. He mentioned he has customers that DO have deleted 19+ trucks that have had block cracks requiring new engines and there warranties are 100% void. Most of them had to take out additional loans ontop of their truck loans in order to pay for the engine replacement. Ontop of that he said Ram gets a read out of the computer during every visit/warranty and if the computer has been touched in any way the chances of voided warranty are extreme right down to the buttons on your power seats.

Its sad! but ive shifted my focus to only driving warrantied vehicles now. We do well business wise but i just dont have the balls to play that russian roulette game anymore. The cost to replace things is just insane now.

I am currently sitting at my office desk doing some numbers today to decide weather ordering a 25 - 3500 DRW C&C is justifiable vs putting 5000$ worth of additional warranty on this 5500 to get 3 more years down the road and by that time ill need to do 3500$ in tires.

iam my own worst enemy in buying a vehicle outfitted with an emissions system, for example today it was -37 without the wind. But man i just cant imagine driving the Hemi equivalent, iam certain the fuel mileage would be worse than this 5500.

 

[Brutal_HO]

You've probably seen talk on the new 2025 engine emissions in other threads, but I'll just remind you that the emission system is entirely revamped on the new trucks coming in 2025.

Hopefully Ram/Cummins has this crap figured out.

 

[Pressure_welder]

You've probably seen talk on the new 2025 engine emissions in other threads, but I'll just remind you that the emission system is entirely revamped on the new trucks coming in 2025.

Hopefully Ram/Cummins has this crap figured out.

sorry no i havent read that, but that is extremely interesting to hear and quite intriguing. Ill have to do some more research on that. If its any better equiped for these cold temperatures that could be justification in itself. thankyou for that information sir!

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

sorry no i havent read that, but that is extremely interesting to hear and quite intriguing. Ill have to do some more research on that. If its any better equiped for these cold temperatures that could be justification in itself. thankyou for that information sir!

It sounds like it will be worse. Until more details arise we wont know

 

[RAMMITDOWN]

Welcome to the "new world of service"!! Most of the problems with getting a vehicle in for service is the complete lack of technicians available. Young people coming up into the work force don't want to work. They want to be paid for a mediocre work ethic. The number of serious young workers are insufficient for the demand. I sold my body shop in part due to an extreme shortage of qualified techs.
We recently had our 2020 car act up by loosing power. Called the dealer and got the same scenario - 4 weeks to get it in just to diagnose it. In fact when we finally dropped it off, 2 service writers quit while we were there. We were lucky that we had a spare vehicle to drive in the meantime.
I can't imagine how frustrating it is when your truck is your money maker and this shortage is a continuous problem. Seriously, good luck man.

 

[Pressure_welder]

I agree, seems to be a lack of people willing to work across the board! i had an apprentice for a while that begged for a job. So i decided to give him a shot i remember how eager i was to learn back when i started. He was pretty good off the hop, but after about a month work ethic started to slide, always on the phone texting, started coming up with excuses as to why he couldn't come in, complaining about having to work OT to get jobs done. Figured i paid well for an apprentice.... 25$ an hr for a level 1 and any OT was double time. Anyway ended up letting him go and i only hire other rig welders now that ive worked with on pipe jobs on a per job basis and haven't had a problem since!

Funny how things happen! so another friend of mine is a GM at a chrysler/ram dealership in town and we were talking today about ordering a 25 or maybe even a 24 if there still open. Anyway i tell him my story about all these dealerships being booked for over a month out including his. and my def issues so he says uh wait one second..... comes back to his desk and says he spoke to the service manager. Long story short hes bringing in a technician tomorrow morning on over time to replace the faulty pump/heater for me in my truck. They don't have a part in stock, so they're buying it from my other diesel mechanic buddy who was going to install it this weekend for me. All so i can have it done under warranty to Rams "specifications" lol. SO i will say while i certainly don't deserve that kind of service nor do i deserve to "budge" anyone. This to me makes me eat my words a bit in the original post, i would say this is an example of going above and beyond, granted its likely because i played hockey with the GM but still. Could just be a ploy to make me want to spend money on a new truck to !!!! gotta say its working a bit lol. Heater will get a work out tomorrow...... -42 tonight with a high of -35 tomorrow. I guess winter is here to stay.


hellzniper.... i haven't been able to find much literature on this new emissions system on the HDs i would be curious as to what is changing.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I agree, seems to be a lack of people willing to work across the board! i had an apprentice for a while that begged for a job. So i decided to give him a shot i remember how eager i was to learn back when i started. He was pretty good off the hop, but after about a month work ethic started to slide, always on the phone texting, started coming up with excuses as to why he couldn't come in, complaining about having to work OT to get jobs done. Figured i paid well for an apprentice.... 25$ an hr for a level 1 and any OT was double time. Anyway ended up letting him go and i only hire other rig welders now that ive worked with on pipe jobs on a per job basis and haven't had a problem since!

Funny how things happen! so another friend of mine is a GM at a chrysler/ram dealership in town and we were talking today about ordering a 25 or maybe even a 24 if there still open. Anyway i tell him my story about all these dealerships being booked for over a month out including his. and my def issues so he says uh wait one second..... comes back to his desk and says he spoke to the service manager. Long story short hes bringing in a technician tomorrow morning on over time to replace the faulty pump/heater for me in my truck. They don't have a part in stock, so they're buying it from my other diesel mechanic buddy who was going to install it this weekend for me. All so i can have it done under warranty to Rams "specifications" lol. SO i will say while i certainly don't deserve that kind of service nor do i deserve to "budge" anyone. This to me makes me eat my words a bit in the original post, i would say this is an example of going above and beyond, granted its likely because i played hockey with the GM but still. Could just be a ploy to make me want to spend money on a new truck to !!!! gotta say its working a bit lol. Heater will get a work out tomorrow...... -42 tonight with a high of -35 tomorrow. I guess winter is here to stay.


hellzniper.... i haven't been able to find much literature on this new emissions system on the HDs i would be curious as to what is changing.

Sounds like 2 DEF injectors at a minimum one upstream and one down stream of the DPF. If they go back to the 13-18 DEF pump style it may be fine but who knows

 

[Brutal_HO]

It sounds like it will be worse. Until more details arise we wont know

Why would you assume that?

Sounds like 2 DEF injectors at a minimum one upstream and one down stream of the DPF. If they go back to the 13-18 DEF pump style it may be fine but who knows

The SCR has been placed just aft of the turbo for better heat retention. Admittedly, we don't yet know if there's actually a second SCR/DEF chamber downstream or not. The 2 DEF injectors is purely conjecture on our part based on limited leaked info.

 

[RAMMITDOWN]

Heater will get a work out tomorrow...... -42 tonight with a high of -35 tomorrow. I guess winter is here to stay.

Damn, you guys up north really have it hard in winter. The Pac.NW doesn't even come close to those temps. that cold really reeks havoc on equipment. I remember when the Alaska pipeline was going in and the mechanics would leave all the heavy equipment running at idle all night, It was way easier than trying to get those big rigs going again in those temps. This was before Mobile 1 and other synthetics were available.
Anyway, congrats on getting the dealer to move their butt for someone who makes a living with their rig. I think you did the right thing.
I keep wondering how "this" generation is going to survive when no one will cater to their immaturity. Time will tell

 

[Pressure_welder]

Damn, you guys up north really have it hard in winter. The Pac.NW doesn't even come close to those temps. that cold really reeks havoc on equipment. I remember when the Alaska pipeline was going in and the mechanics would leave all the heavy equipment running at idle all night, It was way easier than trying to get those big rigs going again in those temps. This was before Mobile 1 and other synthetics were available.
Anyway, congrats on getting the dealer to move their butt for someone who makes a living with their rig. I think you did the right thing.
I keep wondering how "this" generation is going to survive when no one will cater to their immaturity. Time will tell

ah we get used to it, awesome for ice fishing and sledding haha. Actually funny you mention that Alaska pipeline stuff. My father in-law owned a large heavy equip biz his whole life, they were contracted in the winter to make/maintain ice roads in northern MB. They had dozers/and stiegers with tracks/loaders/semis etc and used to pull there camp/bunk houses on cat train trailers. But yea he said they would fire up there equipment late November when the temps started to get around -30 regularly and they wouldn't shut any engine off until late feb/early march. Would literally do oil changes while the equipment was running, pour from the top and drain at the bottom because alot of times you just wouldnt get it re-started again. NO def systems back then and he had said they very rarely encountered any engine issues. More blown hydraulic hoses than anything.

As for the dealer there's no question they stepped up to the plate on this one i certainly "budged" the line over the weekend. The only thing they forgot to do was re-insulate the def injector line but thats no problem ill do that tomorrow in the shop. It was only gone for a day but holy **** did i ever miss it. I used my inlaws H2 to take the kiddo to a hockey tournament yesterday what a pig. I think i am still going to have a hard look at some numbers on a 25 to see if there's justification there or not.

 

[ErikTheRed]

Wait, what? You have to get oil changed at a Ram dealership in order for the engine warranty to apply? I sure as hell hope this isn't true cuz I NEVER pay anyone to do an oil change. I usually just keep my receipts for the oil and stuff em in the back of my owner's manual.

 

[flan]

Wait, what? You have to get oil changed at a Ram dealership in order for the engine warranty to apply? I sure as hell hope this isn't true cuz I NEVER pay anyone to do an oil change. I usually just keep my receipts for the oil and stuff em in the back of my owner's manual.

Keep your receipt for the oil, the lid or upc of the oil filter box and a log book then reset the oil change minder and you are good to go.

 

[Pressure_welder]

Wait, what? You have to get oil changed at a Ram dealership in order for the engine warranty to apply? I sure as hell hope this isn't true cuz I NEVER pay anyone to do an oil change. I usually just keep my receipts for the oil and stuff em in the back of my owner's manual.

yea i said the exact same thing to the service manager, i never get my oil changed at the dealer. I used to do my own as well but Great Canadian Oil change is difficult to beat time wise for what you get so they just do mine now. But as Flan said i do the same, keep all of your receipts on hand incase of potential engine issues. Because they will 100% question oil changes! Even this snap ring recall on my transmission that iam getting done next month, they need to take an oil sample for their records. Anotherrrr friend is a diesel tech at the ford dealer. We were having shop drinks last week and he was mentioning Fords new load capacity read out in the trucks when you hook up a trailer. He said they've spun it as a cool new feature so you can see youre load on the axle. But what its REALLY for is another angle for Ford to deny all sorts of warranty. The second you overload your truck it records it and flags it in the computer. He says once the truck has been overloaded even once and driven a certain amount of KM things like engine/driveline warranties can be void.

I could be wrong? but i feel these companies are monitoring these trucks like crazy. It never happened on my 2018. But maybe once a month my entire truck feels like it resets. My "theme" goes back to stock, all of my pre-set music stations are gone, and all of my saved favorite songs are gone. I imagine its just an update via satellite or something? but its sure annoying

 

[donmac]

Welcome to the "new world of service"!! Most of the problems with getting a vehicle in for service is the complete lack of technicians available. Young people coming up into the work force don't want to work. They want to be paid for a mediocre work ethic. The number of serious young workers are insufficient for the demand. I sold my body shop in part due to an extreme shortage of qualified techs.
We recently had our 2020 car act up by loosing power. Called the dealer and got the same scenario - 4 weeks to get it in just to diagnose it. In fact when we finally dropped it off, 2 service writers quit while we were there. We were lucky that we had a spare vehicle to drive in the meantime.
I can't imagine how frustrating it is when your truck is your money maker and this shortage is a continuous problem. Seriously, good luck man.

The problem is not young people wanting to work, it is the way dealerships pay the young people! My son went to tech school to become a mechanic. The first dealership was good, excellent pay good environment. Then it sold. Unless they were turning wrenches, they were not paid, but expected to work around the dealership. Other dealerships in the area use the same pay scale, and act the same way. Investing in tools and education is expensive, but dealerships do not pay well!

 

[RAMMITDOWN]

The problem is not young people wanting to work, it is the way dealerships pay the young people! My son went to tech school to become a mechanic. The first dealership was good, excellent pay good environment. Then it sold. Unless they were turning wrenches, they were not paid, but expected to work around the dealership. Other dealerships in the area use the same pay scale, and act the same way. Investing in tools and education is expensive, but dealerships do not pay well!

I should have explained my statement more thoroughly. You mentioned the dealer sold - Of course that is part of the problem, an important issue and a serious one when it comes to dealer consolidators cheating their workforce. Tell your son to skip the dealerships and go to work for either an independent or better, county or state motor pool. I was not trying to disparage ALL young people, there are good solid young adults that want to build there lives. I suppose it also depends on where you live. In the Pacific Northwest, it is impossible to hire young talent as the shortage is so bad. Businesses try to lure other techs away from their job. Most of the remaining young populous wants a high paying desk job they aren't qualified for.
It is a real mess, cost of living in the greater Seattle area is very high, traffic is insane and people drive like their on acid. Ever since Covid, it is like aliens abducted all the workforce!! I'm glad I sold my business and retired.
Anyway, my experience with the apprentices coming into the workforce was they wanted top pay with no regard to skill or experience. End of rant

 

[Pressure_welder]

Well ! Got some numbers back on a 3500 identical to my 5500. Decent i guess.. 93,000$ however! I couldnt believe the trade value they gave on my 5500 laramie, 70k on the clock and super clean. 55,000$ and said that was top dollar. In june another dealer offered me 82. I find it hard to believe 24k difference in 5 months. I just laughed and said no thanks! Man you cant even but a 2018 laramie drw on kijiji for less than 60 and they dont last. Trade in prices seemed to have tanked, or their hoping for a sucker maybe. Anyway decided to just keep it for another 2-3 yrs and throw some extra warranty on it.