Test Drove Ram, Chevy, Ford

[mzflorida]

I use my truck for daily driving and towing. I was looking at a 2500 until I rode in a 3500 with air and it rides very similar to a 2500. After that I was sold on the 3500 and I have had an around 18-19K gooseneck behind it and a 12k bumper pull and it tows like a dream. I also feel more confident in the Aisin Transmission that you can get in the 3500. Of course if you go with a 2025 they both get the ZF which based on other ZF transmissions I have driven should be a great upgrade from both of the previous options.

It sounds like the 25 is a pretty good choice overall with the ZF.

 

[mzflorida]

First I’d like to say I had a 2020 Ram ecodiesel and it is my favorite truck I’ve ever had. Only got rid of it because we needed an HD for our current RV/fish house.

This 22 EcoDiesel of ours is my favorite vehicle of all i have owned. I'm 57 and owned many vehicles. Even with its faults i still just love driving it.

 

[mzflorida]

First I’d like to say I had a 2020 Ram ecodiesel and it is my favorite truck I’ve ever had. Only got rid of it because we needed an HD for our current RV/fish house.

We ended up with a 2021 Silverado 3500 gasser. So I can’t speak on the duramax, but I actually really liked that truck, towed great for a gasser, loved the rear seat space and flat floor. The standard bed length on them is 6’-10” which was nice as well. So they are significantly bigger and you can tell. But I agree with you, my biggest gripe with that truck was the seats were uncomfortable. After almost two years in that truck I decided I wanted a diesel.

So now I’m in my 2022 Ram 2500 Cummins. I miss the rear seat area of the Chevy but the seat is plenty big for my daughter and our dogs so it’s fine. I do not miss the overall size of the Chevy. The diesel is awesome for towing and my daily 80 mile round trip commute. The Ram trucks have always felt like the right fit for me. I’ve owned 5 different 1/2 tons and now my Cummins. Every time I’ve tried something else I end up coming back.

All that being said you can probably get an amazing deal buying a 2024 right now. As others have said don’t bother with the 2500 just get a 1 ton. They all have problems so I don’t think one will be better in that regard than the others.

This is a long long shot. I just saw your truck in the picture and noticed the RV/fish house comment. Were you in South Georgia camping and fishing just before Hurricane Helene? The Providence Canyon area?

 

[mzflorida]

Yeah, I understand. I only have 16K miles on my 22, which I bought new. We have other vehicles for every day stuff, so we were already in the "truck = hauling" mode. And we don't have to rent storage. We put up a building on our acreage for the RV, truck and an enclosed trailer.

We live in the Ozark Mts, and the gas 3/4 ton I had before I got into Ram Cummins back in '20 just could not pull some of our hills at or near the speed limit. Maybe I'm old school, but I can't stand to drive a car/truck with the RPM's in the 4K or more range. The diesel experience is SO much more more relaxed and confident, and will easily hold whatever speed I want. But if I lived in flatter country, I may have looked harder at the 6.4. But only because of emissions issues on all the modern diesel HD's.

We live in a typical Florida HOA. Super nice neighborhood but I am tired of the HOA thing. Our daughters are adults, both here in Florida for now. As soon as they move out of state, we're out of here and someplace close to or between the two of them with a barn for the RV. Deed restricted is okay, HOA is a no go after this. Don't get me wrong, our HOA is pretty well run and reasonable enough. It's just not for me anymore.

 

[Finn5033]

This is a long long shot. I just saw your truck in the picture and noticed the RV/fish house comment. Were you in South Georgia camping and fishing just before Hurricane Helene? The Providence Canyon area?

Negative, I live in MN

 

[superjoe83]

The current setup is:
Turbo-->Downpipe-->DOC/DPF-->DEF Injection-->SCR

The new setup (appears to be):
(10-blade)Turbo-->SCR with DEF injection(?)-->DOC/DPF-->DEF-->SCR(?)

Hard to say as the intel detail is limited.

I wonder if it's set up like the ford pickups, it goes DOC--DEF/SCR--DPF
I don't see them having two SCR systems, but who knows.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I wonder if it's set up like the ford pickups, it goes DOC--DEF/SCR--DPF
I don't see them having two SCR systems, but who knows.

Not sure how they're doing it, but there's reported to be 2 DEF injection "events" or "sites". That leads me to believe there is 2 SCR/DEF chambers.

There's an SCR chamber right at the outlet of the turbo with a few probes and perhaps a DEF injector. It also appears there's a second DEF injector further downstream just after the DOC in a small catalyst chamber (so my first stab above might be incorrect). It's hard to ID from the pic I have seen. It's so close up I can't tell with certainty where it's located. @mbarber84 has a better grasp on what part of the system looks like.

 

[superjoe83]

Not sure how they're doing it, but there's reported to be 2 DEF injection "events" or "sites". That leads me to believe there is 2 SCR/DEF chambers.

There's an SCR chamber right at the outlet of the turbo with a few probes and perhaps a DEF injector. It also appears there's a second DEF injector further downstream just after the DOC in a small catalyst chamber (so my first stab above might be incorrect). It's hard to ID from the pic I have seen. It's so close up I can't tell with certainty where it's located. @mbarber84 has a better grasp on what part of the system looks like.

Well, sounds like more possible failure points to me, but with this much added SCR stuff it seems they are really trying to get NOX emissions down. I haven't kept up with diesel emission regs but was there a new standard for '25 that required less NOX?

 

[Brutal_HO]

Well, sounds like more possible failure points to me, but with this much added SCR stuff it seems they are really trying to get NOX emissions down. I haven't kept up with diesel emission regs but was there a new standard for '25 that required less NOX?

Don't know but one might expect.

If they'd get Ducted Port Injection implemented, 80% of the EGR and NOx would go away.

 

[mzflorida]

Don't know but one might expect.

If they'd get Ducted Port Injection implemented, 80% of the EGR and NOx would go away.

Being new to diesels, I had never heard of this tech. I read a few articles on it. At first blush, it sure seems like this is a tech that should be adopted. It really does not seem like there are many cons to it, other than the bottom line for big auto manufacturing. I did a chatgpt search on pros and cons and this is what it returned (who knows if it is accurate, but I think it is interesting)
Ducted Fuel Injection (DFI) is a relatively new technology in diesel engine design aimed at improving fuel-air mixing and combustion efficiency. Below are the pros and cons of DFI systems in diesel engines:

---

Pros:​

1.​

• DFI enhances the mixing of fuel and air by injecting fuel into ducts that guide the spray into the combustion chamber, leading to more complete combustion.
• This reduces unburned hydrocarbons (HC) and soot formation, making the engine cleaner and more efficient.

2.​

• By optimizing fuel-air mixing, DFI significantly lowers particulate matter (PM) emissions, especially soot.
• Better combustion control also helps reduce nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions, depending on operating conditions.

3.​

• The ducts ensure finer atomization and distribution of the fuel, promoting more homogeneous combustion and reducing hotspots or localized over-rich zones.

4.​

• With better combustion efficiency, fuel usage is reduced, potentially improving the engine’s thermal efficiency and mileage.

5.​

• DFI systems can, in some cases, be retrofitted to existing diesel engines, making it an attractive option for upgrading engines to meet stricter emissions standards without a complete redesign.

6.​

• The improved mixing and combustion characteristics of DFI could support the use of alternative or lower-carbon fuels like biodiesel or synthetic diesel.

---

Cons:​

1.​

• The addition of ducts and associated components adds complexity to the engine design, requiring precise engineering and potentially making the engine harder to manufacture, maintain, and repair.

2.​

• The need for high-precision ducts, injectors, and other components raises production costs compared to conventional diesel fuel injection systems.

3.​

• The ducts and injectors operate under extreme pressure and temperatures, which could lead to wear, clogging, or other durability challenges over time.

4.​

• DFI is still in the experimental or early adoption phase for many diesel applications. Its adoption may be slow until further development reduces costs and proves reliability in a wide range of operating conditions.

5.​

• The inclusion of ducts and modifications to the injection system might require reworking the engine’s layout, potentially increasing its size or limiting its application in compact designs.

6.​

• The duct geometry, positioning, and injector timing must be precisely tuned to ensure proper performance, which could make the system sensitive to changes in operating conditions or fuel quality.

7.​

• Since the technology is relatively new, there is limited real-world data on the long-term maintenance and operational costs of DFI systems.

 

[mbarber84]

Not sure how they're doing it, but there's reported to be 2 DEF injection "events" or "sites". That leads me to believe there is 2 SCR/DEF chambers.

There's an SCR chamber right at the outlet of the turbo with a few probes and perhaps a DEF injector. It also appears there's a second DEF injector further downstream just after the DOC in a small catalyst chamber (so my first stab above might be incorrect). It's hard to ID from the pic I have seen. It's so close up I can't tell with certainty where it's located. @mbarber84 has a better grasp on what part of the system looks like.

Yeah from what I know, their intent is to move some of the SCR conversion closer to the engine. Has to do with the effectiveness of the process being closer to the heat source. Definitely going to be an assembly closer to the engine, and potentially another one “further back” but not exactly clear on just “where” that “further back” will be.

 

[mbarber84]

Well, sounds like more possible failure points to me, but with this much added SCR stuff it seems they are really trying to get NOX emissions down. I haven't kept up with diesel emission regs but was there a new standard for '25 that required less NOX?

As far as I know there are no new standards for 2025. I think the drive behind this is based on the engine narrowly passing the current specs in the first place. I’m assuming they’re trying to tighten up their emissions performance in light of recent governmental involvement with their company, as well as creating a wider gap of emissions compliance moving forward. Depending on how the 7.2L development goes, it might be the engine to replace the current 6.7L in the Rams, but I guess that will depend on the decisions Stellantis makes. The larger displacement engine is slated to replace the commercial and industrial production 6.7 engines already. Larger displacement allows for better emissions performance.

 

[jebruns]

I disagree.

The spring pack on the air trucks is different and does improve the unloaded ride over the non air truck.

Yes, it is. But when I test drove both Ram 1 tons back-to-back with no load, there was no difference I could detect.

My air assist truck rides surprisingly well once you drop the tire pressures to reasonable values for unloaded driving.

That's got nothing to do with the air suspension though. I'm so glad I don't have to do that between tows. I'm sure that would get to be a PITA.

 

[mbarber84]

Yes, it is. But when I test drove both Ram 1 tons back-to-back with no load, there was no difference I could detect..

If you were test driving two trucks on the lot, that’s not going to be a fair comparison because I can almost assure you that every tire on that truck had 80Psi of air pressure in it, which is well above the recommended tire pressure and will absolutely have an adverse effect on ride quality.

 

[Brutal_HO]

If you were test driving two trucks on the lot, that’s not going to be a fair comparison because I can almost assure you that every tire on that truck had 80Psi of air pressure in it, which is well above the recommended tire pressure and will absolutely have an adverse effect on ride quality.

They were probably still 90psi from the train ride.

 

[jebruns]

If you were test driving two trucks on the lot, that’s not going to be a fair comparison because I can almost assure you that every tire on that truck had 80Psi of air pressure in it, which is well above the recommended tire pressure and will absolutely have an adverse effect on ride quality.

Could be. But I'd guess they were set the same.

 

[enem178]

I own a F-350 & a Ram 2500....I love both trucks. The F350 is a work truck and it's awesome at that. The Ram is newer so it obviously has a nicer interior and tech. I decided to go with the Ram because I feel it's easier to live with every day and to be a HD truck it really isn't that big which is another plus. I had a F-150 for a while and my 2500 might be a lot taller but it isn't much longer. If I owned a construction company or was working the truck hard everyday I would buy a Ford but I'm extremely happy with my Ram so far.

 

[Dinky503]

So this is just my opinion,

I tow a 39ft toyhauler. its 9700lbs empty, then add water, a 2000lb sxs, all the stuff we are taking, a 4 wheeler, 30 gallons of fuel, food, coolers ect. i suspect im around 13500. but ive never weighed cause im dumb.

With a 2500 i added air bags to level it out and smooth out the ride. it towed find for the most part. However at that point i was at or beyond capacity. If you know your going a big trailer and you have a general weight in mind buy a truck that exceeds that capacity for the capability and the safety of it all.

Imho, get the 3500. Just know it rides like a 3500 lol.


As for the ford, i like it. its a good looking truck imho. the HO they have / had has gobs of power and you get more out of lesser trim levels. a XL is about as loaded as a ram bighorn.

i dont know anything about chevy sadly. never got to test drive a 3500. but when i looked they claimed they were in high demand, never had any on the lot and acted like they were to good to negotiate. so i stuck with ram.

I also suggest this, find a dealer you like and or trust. That will make ram ownership tolerable. my dealer will warranty my truck no questions asked.

Stelantis is on the stuggle bus for sales. you can get good deals. I paid 66k for a big horn 3500 HO that stickered for 79k.

My 3500 rides better than a stick 2500.....

 

[tchur1]

FWIW I traded in my '22 ram for a '24 F250 King Ranch Tremor this weekend. I really enjoyed that truck and would have kept it if it were not for the 2 reasons I posted earlier in this thread. Here are my initial impressions of the F250 compared to the Ram:
- Cab is significantly larger, I can easily fit a car seat behind my driving position with room to spare
- Interior of the Ford is now on par (or potentially better) than the Limited.
-Seats are more plush/comfortable
- Telescoping steering wheel is really nice, allows me to get into a comfortable driving position without my knees hitting the center console like they did on the Ram.
- Powertrain is smoother and quieter than the Ram, I barely hear the motor while driving and the trans is smoother than the AISIN (I miss the sound of the Cummins - the HO powerstroke sounds terrible in comparison)
- Exhaust break when not towing is far less effective, it works but its nothing like the Ram.
- HUD is awesome, wish the Ram had it.
- Ride quality is way better in the F250. This isnt an apples to apples comparison because the Ram was a 3500 and now im in a 3/4 ton Tremor, but the Ford rides better.
- Visibility in the Ford is better, A pillars feel smaller and rear windows larger, its easier to see everything IMO.
- Ford has the CP4 which is worrisome but im willing to take the risk while its under warranty.

In short - the Ram is a purpose built towing tool with some nice luxury features where the Ford feels like a luxury vehicle that can pull a house. Everything feels a bit more refined IMO but I will miss the Cummins motor.

I genuinely think you will be happy with whatever you choose but figured id share my recent experience.

 

[gimmie11s]

FWIW I traded in my '22 ram for a '24 F250 King Ranch Tremor this weekend. I really enjoyed that truck and would have kept it if it were not for the 2 reasons I posted earlier in this thread. Here are my initial impressions of the F250 compared to the Ram:
- Cab is significantly larger, I can easily fit a car seat behind my driving position with room to spare
- Interior of the Ford is now on par (or potentially better) than the Limited.
-Seats are more plush/comfortable
- Telescoping steering wheel is really nice, allows me to get into a comfortable driving position without my knees hitting the center console like they did on the Ram.
- Powertrain is smoother and quieter than the Ram, I barely hear the motor while driving and the trans is smoother than the AISIN (I miss the sound of the Cummins - the HO powerstroke sounds terrible in comparison)
- Exhaust break when not towing is far less effective, it works but its nothing like the Ram.
- HUD is awesome, wish the Ram had it.
- Ride quality is way better in the F250. This isnt an apples to apples comparison because the Ram was a 3500 and now im in a 3/4 ton Tremor, but the Ford rides better.
- Visibility in the Ford is better, A pillars feel smaller and rear windows larger, its easier to see everything IMO.
- Ford has the CP4 which is worrisome but im willing to take the risk while its under warranty.

In short - the Ram is a purpose built towing tool with some nice luxury features where the Ford feels like a luxury vehicle that can pull a house. Everything feels a bit more refined IMO but I will miss the Cummins motor.

I genuinely think you will be happy with whatever you choose but figured id share my recent experience.

Yeah, their exhaust brake is pretty weak. That cab sure is nice though, as is the horsepower.