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Ram Heavy Duty Forum
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Let's Talk Regen
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Usually easier to spot if the member has created a few nonsensical posts.
Josh Geekie
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I have a 2019 Ram 3500 Big Horn 6.7 Cummins with the 68RFE. Very happy with it so far. I have put 18,000 kms on it so far and overall the DPF system has been much less of a pain in the ass than what I was expecting. I have filled the DEF tank with a 2.5 Gallon container 4 times now. I have been driving 21 kms (each way) to work (mostly highway in no traffic, early morning) and my DPF gauge has been at 0% with no Re-gen and very little DEF consumption for the last month. Sometimes when I do more city driving it adds up but I have never had the gauge go more than about 1/3rd full. Last month we went camping and did about 50kms off road and lots of idling, and it did do a Re-gen on the way home, but was only 10% full.
I read a comment above that said the Ford & GM V8's create more emissions than the I6 Ram Cummins and I wanted to share my experiences with, and compare the behaviour of the Ram system to the behaviour of the truck I drive at work, a 2018 Ford 5500 6.7 PowerStroke:
First of all, the work truck (Ford 6.7L) does a lot of idling. It's a garbage / dumpster truck and it's always in stop and go traffic and always going in and out of Park / Drive while I have to get out and do something. The exhaust filter is almost always full. it has a DPF indicator (% full) and it will typically go up from half full to 80-100% full during the day and then Re-gen back down to 40-55% on the way back to the yard. Because the Ford is always going in and out of Park and Drive the Re-gen always gets postponed or cancelled until the filter is full.
In similar driving, the Ford DPF does fill up noticeably faster than the Ram. I believe that the Ford engine does make more emissions but also has something to do with the transmission behaviour. The Ford's torque converter is usually open until it shifts into 5th gear, whereas the Ram always locks up in 3rd & 4th, and I think that when the torque converter locks it helps the engine build load & boost pressure and push soot through the DPF. Also the taller gear ratio and larger tire size of the Ram could contribute to this same theory.
Experiences with Re-Gen in the Ford:
I have figured out the fastest way to get the Re-gen to work effectively. Simply driving on the highway helps, but often there is not enough engine load to complete the Re-gen quickly. The best way is to drive it a bit hard and let the exhaust build heat. Accelerate constantly from 40km/h up to 100km/h in 4th & 5th gear and the boost pressure will build up, helping build heat necessary to burn off the soot and to push out the soot through the DPF. If I drive it with constant accelerations and load in a 20-25km trip back to the yard it will clean the DPF from 100% full down to only 10-15% full. All in less than half an hour. If I were to drive back on a flat highway at 100 km/h it would only Re-gen about 15% on the same journey.
Originally I thought it would be hard on the system to be under full load or throttle during DPF Re-gen, but considering the way the system actually works it makes sense that a truck that is pushed hard will create more heat & pressure and burn off the soot faster. I would imagine that one of these trucks that tows heavy on the highway all the time would Re-gen quite effectively by itself because the constant load on the engine would keep the turbo spooled, the exhaust hot, and the DPF clean.
Every time some other employee drives this truck I get into it with a near full exhaust filter and it drives me nuts. They have said that if the exhaust filter reaches 100% it will prompt you to do a stationary Re-gen in which it revs on its own to clean the DPF and the exhaust system will smoke. I have never seen this in person but it does not sound healthy for the truck.
Considering what the work truck does, if it was my responsibility to buy the trucks, I probably would have spec'd it with the new Ford 7.3L gas. Although, I do enjoy driving the Ford 6.7L. It hauls ass. It would smoke my Ram off the line because of the short 1st gear & final drive ratio but the Ram would kill it once it got into 3rd or 4th gear.
With all that said, I do feel that the Ram system works a bit better. It seems to do a Re-Gen on it's own at a reasonable time and doesn't let itself get too full.... I have heard of older trucks of all makes that needed manual DPF cleaning at the dealerships for $ 2,000 or more, hence why I think it is important to understand how the system works and to stay on top of it.
Lastly, if you Build & Price a Ram 5500 chassis cab, there is an option for "Manual DPF "Regeneration" for $250. Anybody have a Ram chassis cab with this option?
Lastly, if you Build & Price a Ram 5500 chassis cab, there is an option for "Manual DPF "Regeneration" for $250. Anybody have a Ram chassis cab with this option?
I read a comment above that said the Ford & GM V8's create more emissions than the I6 Ram Cummins and I wanted to share my experiences with, and compare the behaviour of the Ram system to the behaviour of the truck I drive at work, a 2018 Ford 5500 6.7 PowerStroke:
First of all, the work truck (Ford 6.7L) does a lot of idling. It's a garbage / dumpster truck and it's always in stop and go traffic and always going in and out of Park / Drive while I have to get out and do something. The exhaust filter is almost always full. it has a DPF indicator (% full) and it will typically go up from half full to 80-100% full during the day and then Re-gen back down to 40-55% on the way back to the yard. Because the Ford is always going in and out of Park and Drive the Re-gen always gets postponed or cancelled until the filter is full.
In similar driving, the Ford DPF does fill up noticeably faster than the Ram. I believe that the Ford engine does make more emissions but also has something to do with the transmission behaviour. The Ford's torque converter is usually open until it shifts into 5th gear, whereas the Ram always locks up in 3rd & 4th, and I think that when the torque converter locks it helps the engine build load & boost pressure and push soot through the DPF. Also the taller gear ratio and larger tire size of the Ram could contribute to this same theory.
Experiences with Re-Gen in the Ford:
I have figured out the fastest way to get the Re-gen to work effectively. Simply driving on the highway helps, but often there is not enough engine load to complete the Re-gen quickly. The best way is to drive it a bit hard and let the exhaust build heat. Accelerate constantly from 40km/h up to 100km/h in 4th & 5th gear and the boost pressure will build up, helping build heat necessary to burn off the soot and to push out the soot through the DPF. If I drive it with constant accelerations and load in a 20-25km trip back to the yard it will clean the DPF from 100% full down to only 10-15% full. All in less than half an hour. If I were to drive back on a flat highway at 100 km/h it would only Re-gen about 15% on the same journey.
Originally I thought it would be hard on the system to be under full load or throttle during DPF Re-gen, but considering the way the system actually works it makes sense that a truck that is pushed hard will create more heat & pressure and burn off the soot faster. I would imagine that one of these trucks that tows heavy on the highway all the time would Re-gen quite effectively by itself because the constant load on the engine would keep the turbo spooled, the exhaust hot, and the DPF clean.
Every time some other employee drives this truck I get into it with a near full exhaust filter and it drives me nuts. They have said that if the exhaust filter reaches 100% it will prompt you to do a stationary Re-gen in which it revs on its own to clean the DPF and the exhaust system will smoke. I have never seen this in person but it does not sound healthy for the truck.
Considering what the work truck does, if it was my responsibility to buy the trucks, I probably would have spec'd it with the new Ford 7.3L gas. Although, I do enjoy driving the Ford 6.7L. It hauls ass. It would smoke my Ram off the line because of the short 1st gear & final drive ratio but the Ram would kill it once it got into 3rd or 4th gear.
With all that said, I do feel that the Ram system works a bit better. It seems to do a Re-Gen on it's own at a reasonable time and doesn't let itself get too full.... I have heard of older trucks of all makes that needed manual DPF cleaning at the dealerships for $ 2,000 or more, hence why I think it is important to understand how the system works and to stay on top of it.
Lastly, if you Build & Price a Ram 5500 chassis cab, there is an option for "Manual DPF "Regeneration" for $250. Anybody have a Ram chassis cab with this option?
Lastly, if you Build & Price a Ram 5500 chassis cab, there is an option for "Manual DPF "Regeneration" for $250. Anybody have a Ram chassis cab with this option?
Now garbage truck regen is my line of buisness, finally someone that gets me, or maybe not. IVe figured out that the reason why mine is guzzling the def way more than normal is because I'm always pulling weight around , except when im at the beach or Costco. But regen has worked great and I just turned 5000 miles. The regen gauge only goes up to about 12% so far then comes back down, but these regens ain't no garbage truck regen that's for sure and thank goodness for that.
1FastHemi
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When I ordered my truck earlier this year, I told the dealer wanted this option on my 3500 DRW and he made some phone calls. a few days Later. I called back in to see the dealer had any news and they informed me it was only available on Chassis Cabs ????
I too would love to know the answer to this and if it can be added by dealer or AlphaOBD. If by Alpha, what is the procedure and where will the button display.
I’m fairly certain that the setting in AlfaOBD is ECUCONFIG 4 manual dpf regeneration present. The question is, does it actually change the correct bits and broadcast on a 2500, 3500 BCM. If it’s going to work, it’ll show up in commercial settings in the list along with AUX switches, PIN setup, etc.
I've enabled it in mine and it doesn't show anything extra in the EVIC commercial settings.
I do see a "Press > to regen" occasionally on the DPF screen, but the one time I was in a position to try it, it did nothing. Unsure if that's there from my settings change or otherwise.
That said, I've been using Android AlphaOBD and have a few things that others have enabled that I can't get to work. I just got my Windows code so I'll be trying those again soon.
I know that my garbage trucks was a completely different animal but they all came with Manuel forced regen toggle and out of 100 trucks you might only find a couple that would actually enable a forced regen. Very unreliable. If it wouldn't do it on its own we would then have to hook it up to lap top to be able to force a regen. Our garbage trucks were macks and had Cummins motors
1FastHemi
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I know on some of our older 4500's it had a separate switch on the dash that allowed you to do a Manual Regen. If I remember correctly when looking at the Build and Price site for the Ram 4500, They still offered the Manual DPF Regeneration on the Chassis Cab Models as an option but I understood on these models you had an extra switch somewhere on the dash to preform this function, not built into any of the displays. My dealer tried his best to get that on my truck using the code found for the Chassis Cab models but the order was kicked back to the dealer to remove that code from my order for some reason.
I also had hopes the might be some other way to get it to work after I took delivery but haven't found it.
Keep us posted if you find a way to get it to work !
LOL,
YOUR'E he reason I have been trying to get this to work. I didn't realize they cancelled it on you.
There's possibly a pin that needs a momentary press to force it (once the option is enabled). I don't have a tech authority sub to go looking so I'll probably just give up on it. Frankly, I'm not having any DPF soot accumulation or regen issues as my miles are mostly highway or towing.
1FastHemi
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Sorry about that. I really wanted it on my truck. I think the reason I couldn't get it is because mine wasn't a Chassis Cab so one it the Mechanics mention to me but couldn't show me anything in writing. I haven't given up yet though.
That's pretty sad that they could not get that added on to your 3500 during build process. That should be an extra that you can add to any model like the ttpms or trailer cam function. Would of been so easy during build
I know. I only seen my gauge move once in 10000 miles. That was after I had some warranty work done on a defective module. It showed 20% for about 3 days, got a message "Automatic exhaust regeneration in process" Next day the message had not reappeared and the gauge has read zero ever since. So, I don't seem to have a lot of faith at the moment in the monitoring system. Therefore, I bought a bluetooth OBD2 adapter in hopes that I can get a better feel for what is going on with the DPF and the passive regeneration process.
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I liked that on my 16 model ram it would come on in the evic at 70% and tell you it's in the regeneration process and I would then run it down the interstate for 10 minutes and it would go away. I'm not 100% sure that these new models do the same thing or not, anybody know?
I have seen the auto regen message on my truck.
LegacyHauling
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I have a 2019 3500 with 45k miles on it. I haul cars for a living with it and do both street and highway miles just about equally. 2 weeks ago my check engine light came on so I toggled through all the instrument panel to see if I saw anything wrong and the only thing that was different I was getting the “Automatic Regeneration in Process” message. I figured the check engine like had come on because of something wrong with the regen process or something. I was far from home and had to finish my loads before going home the next morning. I took it to the dealer the following day and the regen message was still on even after driving it at highway speeds for more than 300 miles. The dealer diagnosed it and said for some reason the regen is not completing properly so I had to replace an air filter and some other filter that sits on top of the engine first before they could go through a check list of about 19 other things that could possibly be wrong. I had to pay for the 2 filters ($350), anything else they would find would be covered under my extended warranty. They ended replacing the filters and reset the message code and test drove it and it seemed to have worked.... Well fast forward a week later and the a new message come on that said “Exhaust System Service Required See Dealer” now my truck is back at the dealer, it’s been there for 3 days now. After talking with the actual diesel service tech he said he was going to flush and replace the DEF fluid fist and also check the DPF system, if that didn’t fix the issue then he would have to reach out to the Cummins engineers for more advice. They ended up replacing the a bad diesel particulate filter and are running more test. This is where I sit at now and I’m waiting for them to let me know if it’s working properly now. Is there anyone else out there that has gone through this with a newer model and hauls heavy loads like I do??
Great White North Eh
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Hope they figure it out for you. On my 12 the CEL light was on for DPF pressure so I replaced a $350 sensor but it didn’t help. Took it to the dealership and they screewed around with it for a while and said the DPF was cracked internally?
LegacyHauling
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Thanks, they did say my dpf was cracked and they replaced it today. Now they said a new code came on related with the regen, something to do with electrical . I hope they figure it out already I only worked 2 days this week and at the very minimum I won’t be able to work Monday either.
D
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From everything I have read, including attending a Ram diesel emissions training webinar, DEF is not part of the regen process, it is used in the SCR to reduce NOx emissions. NOx can be dealt with in-cylinder with EGR, or externally with SCR. Active regens occur when there is restriction, AND on a regular schedule of approximately every 24-25 engine hours, regardless of restriction.
