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Cam and Lifter Issue in 6.4 liter 2500 Ram - Thoughts?

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BKyler

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How do you get around this cam and lifter issue in the 6.4 liter ram? I heard a few suggestions.

- Bump up the soft idle from 650 rpm to 800 rpm (is that enough?)

- Replace the oil pump with a Hellcat oil pump. (I heard that will throw a code for too much oil pressure).

Can I just set the cruise control if idling at 800 or 1000 rpm if I plan on idling for any length of time?
 
What cam and lifter issue?

There no way to “bump up the idle”.

Replacing the oil pump with one putting out higher pressure will likely your oil filter bypass valve to be opened more frequently, allowing unfiltered oil through it, unless you also change to a filter with a higher bypass pressure.

Cruise control doesn’t work when you’re standing still, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here.
 
jsalbre said:
What cam and lifter issue?

There no way to “bump up the idle”.

Replacing the oil pump with one putting out higher pressure will likely your oil filter bypass valve to be opened more frequently, allowing unfiltered oil through it, unless you also change to a filter with a higher bypass pressure.

Cruise control doesn’t work when you’re standing still, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here.
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It’s a well documented issue with 5.7/6.4 Hemi. Mine had it. See a lot of posts on FB for it. There’s even a procedure for dealers to look into when a customer comes in with a complaint of knocking to check for metal from failed lifters.

To the OP, there’s nothing you can do. Honestly. It’s a supply issue and I’m very confident in that. There’s no other explanation to have failures across several manufacturers and engine types for it not to be.
 
Enve46 said:
It’s a well documented issue with 5.7/6.4 Hemi. Mine had it. See a lot of posts on FB for it. There’s even a procedure for dealers to look into when a customer comes in with a complaint of knocking to check for metal from failed lifters.

To the OP, there’s nothing you can do. Honestly. It’s a supply issue and I’m very confident in that. There’s no other explanation to have failures across several manufacturers and engine types for it not to be.
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I know that some motors have issues, but there are far more that don't. I was looking for some specifics from the OP, like is he having issues with his motor and trying to fix it, or is he trying to prevent something that has yet to have a definitive cause narrowed down.
 
jsalbre said:
I know that some motors have issues, but there are far more that don't. I was looking for some specifics from the OP, like is he having issues with his motor and trying to fix it, or is he trying to prevent something that has yet to have a definitive cause narrowed down.
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Got it. Yea same thing can be said about the diesels, I would still classify it as an issue though. Its something to keep an eye on for sure.
 
This issue is much less common on the 6.4 hemi. It uses more robust valve train than the 5.7 but still I would not let it idle for long periods. I still wonder why they don't use the ecu to increase the rpm periodically when it senses long idle times to increase the oil pressure.
 
Nothing you can do. I don’t believe any of the internet garbage about improper oiling from idle RPM. The 3.6 has the exact same problem and a totally different valvetrain orientation.

The likely cause is bad runs of the needle bearings within the roller of the lifter. They wear, the roller doesn’t roll, and drag happens wiping the cam lobe out.

Keep the oil changed using a good oil like Redline and just run the thing.
 
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jetrinka said:
Nothing you can do. I don’t believe any of the internet garbage about improper oiling from idle RPM. The 3.6 has the exact same problem and a totally different valvetrain orientation.

The likely cause is bad runs of the needle bearings within the roller of the lifter. They wear, the roller doesn’t roll, and drag happens wiping the cam love out.

Keep the oil changed using a good oil like Redline and just run the thing.
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Lots of 3.6s in the Gladiators and Wranglers have eaten their cams. The pictures are horrifying.
 
jsalbre said:
Lots of 3.6s in the Gladiators and Wranglers have eaten their cams. The pictures are horrifying.
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Yeah its a sucky job. Luckily fixable a little easier than the Hemi. Pull the offending valve cover and there are special tools to hold the timing chain/sprockets in place to loosen/remove the gear bolts. Then you can unbolt the cam, replace the lifters/rockers/cam and back together.
 
jetrinka said:
Nothing you can do. I don’t believe any of the internet garbage about improper oiling from idle RPM. The 3.6 has the exact same problem and a totally different valvetrain orientation.

The likely cause is bad runs of the needle bearings within the roller of the lifter. They wear, the roller doesn’t roll, and drag happens wiping the cam lobe out.

Keep the oil changed using a good oil like Redline and just run the thing.
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Bingo. There's no other logical explanation why its happening across several engines, manufacturers etc... Hell even the guys on the big block chevy page report issues.
 
Regarding replacing the oil pump with a hellcat pump. Yes, that raises the pressure and can throw a code. You don't need more pressure, you need more oil volume. One way is to replace with a hellcat pump (12% more volume) for about $350, but put the lighter spring from the old pump in the hellcat pump to maintain the correct pressure and throw no code. The better option is to buy a Melling pump for about $250 which puts out 20% more volume and has the correct spring.
 
I just went through this with my 2021 Power Wagon. I have 72K miles on the odometer. I change the oil at the dealership at about every 5000 miles so (supposedly) they are using the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40. Back at the end of July I was coming down a mountain and heard the infamous "Hemi tick" at the bottom. There was no warning before that. The following Monday, I got it into the dealer. They confirmed that it was the lifters/cam and it was covered under the extended warranty. I was able to bring them a Melling 10452HV pump to install since the engine was disassembled anyways. I switched out the white spring for the blue spring to keep the MDS "low/high oil pressure" code from popping up. It is really nice to see 60-70 psi of cold oil pressure at start up. Yes, it is meant for High Volume but it pushes much more oil (20% more) than the stock pump. I talked with the "Master Tech" when he was adding another 1/2 quart of oil to get it to read correctly on the dipstick and he told me that two of the MDS lifters had failed. The internal pistons had gotten "stuck in the up position and the pin rotated and locked them in place." He said the cam had some wear on it, but it didn't get eaten since I didn't drive it much after hearing the tick. Overall, the tech did a decent job on the work...except that the upper radiator isolators were left loose and I had about a 1 inch gap to tighten them down. The whole process took about 3 weeks because they had to wait on head gaskets to come in.
 
Mine has rattled for years, now at 205K. Unnerving. My next truck I will minimize idle time more, slightly more frequent oil changes, pray they made changes and hope they will cover it under the new 100K warranty. At least that hellish 68RFE transmission is gone.
 
Wobly said:
I just went through this with my 2021 Power Wagon. I have 72K miles on the odometer. I change the oil at the dealership at about every 5000 miles so (supposedly) they are using the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40. Back at the end of July I was coming down a mountain and heard the infamous "Hemi tick" at the bottom. There was no warning before that. The following Monday, I got it into the dealer. They confirmed that it was the lifters/cam and it was covered under the extended warranty. I was able to bring them a Melling 10452HV pump to install since the engine was disassembled anyways. I switched out the white spring for the blue spring to keep the MDS "low/high oil pressure" code from popping up. It is really nice to see 60-70 psi of cold oil pressure at start up. Yes, it is meant for High Volume but it pushes much more oil (20% more) than the stock pump. I talked with the "Master Tech" when he was adding another 1/2 quart of oil to get it to read correctly on the dipstick and he told me that two of the MDS lifters had failed. The internal pistons had gotten "stuck in the up position and the pin rotated and locked them in place." He said the cam had some wear on it, but it didn't get eaten since I didn't drive it much after hearing the tick. Overall, the tech did a decent job on the work...except that the upper radiator isolators were left loose and I had about a 1 inch gap to tighten them down. The whole process took about 3 weeks because they had to wait on head gaskets to come in.
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Interesting. Great info for others. Thanks for sharing and scaring! I have exactly half that mileage on my ‘21. Do you play with the MDS at all as in tow/haul or locking the transmission out in 8th? Or just drive the truck?


Sent from me
 
Not my truck, but my brother in law’s and it’s a 2014 1500 with the 5.7 that he used farming.

He did not do anything special to it maintenance wise and it made it to 180k miles with no ticking per him.

He got a new truck and the 1500 was turned over to a farmhand.

The farmhand was working on a center pivot and left it idling for more than a three hours and and he was nowhere’s close to the truck and it started ticking really bad to the point it needed a new engine.

I know my brother in law’s idled it a bunch farming and he made it to 180k before it went. I think if it was not idled so long the day it died it would have gone maybe even to 200k but that’s just a guess.
 
The bad part is a lot of heavy duty trucks get idled. For me working on land, winching, recoveries, ect. Its a a shame these Hemis cant handle idling as customers need to do work while at idle!
 
I did turn off the MDS quite a bit prior to the lifter failure. In doing a bunch of research, I may have done more harm than good. The MDS lifters get the high pressure oil when the MDS is activated. As for idle time, I tried to minimize it as much as possible.
 
BKyler said:
I'm just looking for suggestions on preventing issues in the future.
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LImit your idling is really the only preventative that could have an impact. The low pressure at idling apparently is the main culprit per most feedback.

BUT, it is much less of an issue on the 6.4's vs the 5.7 and isn't that big a problem on the 6.4 I hear and generally speaking. Break it in right also. I sure had the tick on my 2015 5.7. They fixed it twice with the first time being the bolts only but second time at 60K miles a full out fix including manifold and "special bolts" per the tech. It is said that on the 5.7 the reduction in power train warranty from 100K miles to 60K in 2016 was the main reason for the change. The tech I got to know had his primary job as fixing the tick problem. He noted he hardly ever worked on 6.4's but he did have a few when I asked him after getting the 2500...

As an aside, In 2019, when it happened the second time at 60K miles, I asked what the trade in would be and it was basically 17K after the fix. No way. A year or so later at 70K (mostly used for towing/winch after market front bumper) and during the Covid Insanity, they offered 29K. I said, darn straight and traded... They weren't dealing on new trucks, but the trade more than offset essentially and MSRP buy.
 
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