Removing the transponder won’t help, most toll systems track via license plates as well.
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Remove, disable, render inoperable all telematics and other data sending signals
- Thread starter UglyViking
- Start date
That's right, if your on the toll way. What I was talking about is on non-tolled roads in Houston they still monitor the toll tags on your vehicle to determine traffic speeds and or slowdowns/incidents on the freeways.
In actualality where I live, you don't need a toll tag at all as the toll ways can do plate pass where you pay a higher fee but will toll you from taking pictures of your license plate. anyway the toll tags allow automated tracking here on local highways that are personally identifiable. We also have a lot of towns that have implemented plate recognition cameras. Not going down this rabbit hole.
I found this blog on deactivating the built in telemetry of the vehicle. http://sandsprite.com/blogs/index.php?uid=7&pid=462&year=2019
thread for up to 2022 https://www.cumminsforum.com/threads/how-to-disable-uconnect-8-4-cellular-intrusion.2552829/
Something I also find concerning is if an owner sets up these remote access systems then sells the vehicle. The pervious owner could know your location, unlock, start and otherwise manipulate your vehicle. I wonder how many used ram buyer know this? I didn't when I first purchased mine.
In actualality where I live, you don't need a toll tag at all as the toll ways can do plate pass where you pay a higher fee but will toll you from taking pictures of your license plate. anyway the toll tags allow automated tracking here on local highways that are personally identifiable. We also have a lot of towns that have implemented plate recognition cameras. Not going down this rabbit hole.
I found this blog on deactivating the built in telemetry of the vehicle. http://sandsprite.com/blogs/index.php?uid=7&pid=462&year=2019
thread for up to 2022 https://www.cumminsforum.com/threads/how-to-disable-uconnect-8-4-cellular-intrusion.2552829/
Something I also find concerning is if an owner sets up these remote access systems then sells the vehicle. The pervious owner could know your location, unlock, start and otherwise manipulate your vehicle. I wonder how many used ram buyer know this? I didn't when I first purchased mine.
mountainears
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A car is no different than a smartphone these days. First, any site or app you use. The real value to the app is the data they collect, selling that data is more profitable than any app.
But also when you sell your smartphone you need to turn off any attacking that was enabled, remove all your passwords and factory reset the device. You need to do the same with your car. And the options to do are there.
But also when you sell your smartphone you need to turn off any attacking that was enabled, remove all your passwords and factory reset the device. You need to do the same with your car. And the options to do are there.
LegendaryLawman
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My new ram 3500 finally arrived and I got a ton of emails today. One from att (thanks for selling my info to them) asking to sign me up for a $20 truck hotspot, then asking me to sign me up for a connected services app etc.
I called ram connected services told them I want to opt out of all data sharing and don’t want the SOS button to work, nothing. She said I already had an account, but needed my app download to work. She closed the account and said no data would be shared without an account and the sos function or other items on the truck are disabled. We will see if that’s true when the truck is delivered, will try that out and let you all know, lol
This is the email I got from them- hopefully it works
them
I called ram connected services told them I want to opt out of all data sharing and don’t want the SOS button to work, nothing. She said I already had an account, but needed my app download to work. She closed the account and said no data would be shared without an account and the sos function or other items on the truck are disabled. We will see if that’s true when the truck is delivered, will try that out and let you all know, lol
This is the email I got from them- hopefully it works
themmountainears
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I can’t imagine the feeling of someone who crashes out somewhere, down the side of a road where they can’t be seen, their phone somewhere they can’t reach and they wake up and think oh damn, I wish I hadn’t turned off that SOS button…. Sure it’s a long shot but not something I’d want to experience.
Rockcrawlindude
a rock crawlin’ dude
I can’t imagine having an SOS button …
Poolmonkey
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I see mine but have no idea whether it works or not, I have never apped or paid for anything so hopefully none of this stuff functions.
Congrats on killing one source of unwelcome telemetry/tracking! Its a shame that RAM is profiting from selling your information to insurance companies, law enforcement and anyone else who will pay money for the data. Too bad RAM doesn't comp you in anyway.
What I see are additional tracking/leak sources that need to be considered beyond killing the on-board LTE/ tracking from ram....
1) Toll Tags (can be ready remotely in many cases)
2) License plate covers to block all of these new automated plate readers from flock "safety"
3) Cover your VIN on the windshield, apparently many of the toll cameras (from reading on the camera forms) are good enough to catch your VIN on the windshield
4) You're cell phone needs to be off (probably better for driving.......)
5) DO not use any insurance driving evaluator
6) probably some more, I've not been made aware of. Oh and your dealer can download driving telemetry when the vehicle is in for service.
What I see are additional tracking/leak sources that need to be considered beyond killing the on-board LTE/ tracking from ram....
1) Toll Tags (can be ready remotely in many cases)
2) License plate covers to block all of these new automated plate readers from flock "safety"
3) Cover your VIN on the windshield, apparently many of the toll cameras (from reading on the camera forms) are good enough to catch your VIN on the windshield
4) You're cell phone needs to be off (probably better for driving.......)
5) DO not use any insurance driving evaluator
6) probably some more, I've not been made aware of. Oh and your dealer can download driving telemetry when the vehicle is in for service.
LegendaryLawman
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I’ve owned a 98 camaro ss, 96 ram 2500, 03 ram 3500, 2009 scion xD, 2005 sprinter 2500, 2015 Toyota Highlander, 2018 JK, some classic cars and probably something I’m forgetting…none had any soy boy SOS buttons/tracking devices. What makes me mad is I was essentially forced to pay hundreds for this crap I don’t want. My father is lucky none of this junk was installed on his 22 during Covid due to the chip shortages and he got a $200 credit. I’d like to find an overhead console out of a Covid truck and just remove the sos button so I don’t need to look at the nanny state devices…
LegendaryLawman
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I don’t use the tolls so no use for those- what burns me are many of those roads were tax payer funded so I need to pay again to use.
Yup- vin is covered with a parking tag since some states have laws that intentionally covering it can allow a vehicle to be towed if the vehicle cannot be verified for a parking citation.
Flock cameras work- an area I patrolled had rampent burglaries and they have really cut down on them and found a lot of bad people with warrants, etc. but I don’t know if I like my information sold. Unfortunately in public we don’t have the right to privacy but my guess is flock sells this info and that’s not right.
Unfortunately, we all have phones and they track us but that’s one thing I wouldn’t be able to live without for $$$ reasons, lol
Hopefully the account deletion works, I’ll let you all know as soon as I get my hands on the truck lol
2. is illegal and you'll be ticketed by many jurisdictions.
4. LOL that you think a powered off phone isn't still tracking.
LegendaryLawman
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Well if you place a parking tag from a lot and it partially obstructs the vin, that an easy ticket to appeal and likely doesn’t meet the vehicle code especially if the vehicle has valid plates on it.
Yea I’ve read many things that phones still transmit when off- it’s true. No more days of taking the batteries out of the Motorola RZR and they are essentially bricks
#2 was a license plate cover not the VIN tag.
Man, the level of fear some people have is hilarious. If they want to sell the data about my drives to the MTB park and Target then good for them. I like knowing that if my wife is in an accident someone is going to know about it.
As has been said before, no one is forcing you to buy anything with these features. If you don’t want them then vote with your $$ and don’t buy the vehicles that come with them.
Also, if you’re that terrified about tracking don’t forget to pull out your radio. It has Bluetooth and WiFi radios in it with their own unique IDs, and those can be (and are) tracked. While you’re at it better yank out your TPMS system (including sensors), keyless entry and start transceivers, and your key fobs, as all of those have unique IDs as well.
As has been said before, no one is forcing you to buy anything with these features. If you don’t want them then vote with your $$ and don’t buy the vehicles that come with them.
Also, if you’re that terrified about tracking don’t forget to pull out your radio. It has Bluetooth and WiFi radios in it with their own unique IDs, and those can be (and are) tracked. While you’re at it better yank out your TPMS system (including sensors), keyless entry and start transceivers, and your key fobs, as all of those have unique IDs as well.
Safe and Sound
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Hello,
I am new to this forum. I want to purchase a 2022 -2024 Ram 3500 Dually with the hi output Cummins. I want to turn off all the streaming and data that leaves the truck for privacy and health reasons. I have a family member with health issues and the electrical radiation from the cell/data streaming out of the truck is bad for their health. I can live without nav, bluetooth, telematics, black boxes etc. I found this thread on the internet and you seemed very knowledgeable.
I have basically three questions:
1} Can you turn off all of these streaming/data gathering systems? If you do does it impact the operation of the truck? Beyond not having nav, streaming music, emergency notification, etc.
2) Will Ram let you do this? Does it impact the warranty or your ability to get insurance?
3} Are there individuals or shops that do this? If so how do i find them? I am willing to pay for services or information.
If you can answer these questions or direct me to someone who can I would be very appreciative. I would be happy to share what I learn with this forum in case others might benefit.
Obviously most people do not seem to be impacted by their cell phone usage. But others are and some very severely.
Thanks,
Safe and Sound
Your navigation system is only receiving a GPS signal. Even if you remove the antenna you’re still getting the same GPS signal, since the satellites are broadcasting it over the entire globe, not just to your vehicle.
If you have someone that really believes they’re affected by electromagnetic radiation then you’re better off with a different vehicle. These trucks are keyless start only, and that relies on an RF system that talks to the key fob. Probably 99.5% of currently available vehicles are the same.
Safe and Sound
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Hello,
I am brand new to this forum. I found this thread on the internet and was impressed with your knowledge. I want to buy a Ram 3500 Dually with the hi output cummins to pull a fifth wheel that we will live in full time. I need to be able to turn off all the cell/data streaming from the truck for privacy and health reasons. The electromagnetic fields generated by the cell/data activity of the truck are harmful to the health of one of my family members.
My questions are:
1) Can all these external communication activities be turned off? nav, telematics, emergency response, blue tooth, etc. Does this impact the operation of the truck Beyond loosing the functions that are turned off?
2) Will Ram let you do this? Does it impact your warranty? Ability to get insurance?
3) Are there people or shops who do this? if so how do I find them. I am willing to pay for services and or information.
If you have information you could share regarding this I would be grateful. I will share what I learn with this forum in case it would be helpful to others.
Thank you,
Safe and Sound
Put the phone, on or off, in a faraday bag. No signals get in or out of that bag.
UglyViking
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Sorry for the delay, somehow missed this message and have too much going on to have investigated this for first hand knowledge. That said I can share the following.
First and foremost, whenever attempting anything for privacy or security related reasoning, you need to define your threat model, and you need to build up your own knowledge, or trust in others to have done it. There is no free lunch, so you really need to own your world as much as you can, or feel is necessary. Sadly, that means basically becoming a pro in networking at the minimum, but further can require hardware and software programing and design knowledge that is far deeper than most are willing to dig. At some point 99.999% of people are going to get to a point where they trust or give up digging deeper. Know what you want to achieve before you start so you don't get dragged in deeper than necessary.
Ok that said, here are the answers I can give to the best of my ability.
1. In theory, all these devices can be turned off, but again I've not gone through the steps to do it and confirm yet. Navigation on it's own is a receive signal only, not a send, so turning it off nets you really nothing from the privacy perspective. There is a chance that FCA collects the GPS location data from the nav and sends it through the telematics antenna system, but by shutting off and disconnecting the ability to send, you remove the concern for GPS.
Either way, the best solution is the most complicated, you need a way to get a baseline by measuring RF signal from the truck, then attempting to remove the telemetry system and disconnecting the antenna and measuring the RF again to confirm it's dropped. I recommend a HackRF One by great scott that requires a computer or phone with supporting SDR app, or as a standalone unit by one of dozens of Chinese made companies with less quality, but it's an all-in-one unit (example). From here you basically need to find what frequency the telemetry system is sending data on (which can be gathered via searching the FCC directly, or perhaps a general google search). Again, what you're looking for is to see a RF signal from whatever frequency it transmits on before you remove, and none after.
As far as bluetooth goes, that's likely built in pretty deep into the headunit, which controls a lot on these modern trucks. Bluetooth is pretty low energy, and I'm not aware of any real medical conditions that would be an issue with bluetooth but not cell usage. Generally speaking, cell phones TX/RX data in the 700-800 MHz band, and the 28GHz+ bands. Bluetooth operates in the 2.4GHz band, as do things like wifi routers and I believe some 4G/5G phone bands as well. Turning bluetooth off from the head unit should be enough.
Unsure about emergency response, presumably that would use the same system as the telematics integration, and same antenna. So disconnecting/removing that should also remove this.
In terms of impact to the vehicle, you will likely get codes or warnings about the telematics system being turned off, same for the emergency response, but past that I don't know.
2. Ram won't approve of this, but I don't know that they won't "let you", its your property after all. As far as ability to get insurance, I'm not an insurance agent, so I can't speak to that. My general thought is that isn't something they track intentionally, and I'm not aware of them denying coverage for this, but so few people go through the process, it's hard to say for sure. I wouldn't go out of your way to tell insurance you're doing it.
As far as warranty, it really depends. If you're at all concerned with keeping your warranty, the best recommendation is to keep it stock, past that any changes you make may result in a loss of warranty, at least partially.
3. I'm sure there are places that would attempt this, but I wouldn't trust any of them that claim to. This is really a pretty new thing, and the only people that are interested in this space (outside OEMs and gov) are hackers and privacy advocates. Unless you know someone personally, I wouldn't personally trust anyone to do this for you, because any shop that has the SME to do something like this may also be tempted to replace OEM stuff with their stuff. After all, anyone willing to go to extreme measures must have something they are trying to hide right? Jokes aside, my rec is do it yourself or don't do it at all.
Faraday bag is def the most ideal solution, past that an OS like GrapheneOS would be the best as you can remove most telemetry, and that which you can't remove can be faked so as to not give your info away. That said, cell towers will constantly ping unless you turn airplane mode on, and if you're doing that, and you've turned off wi-fi, then you basically have a DAP, so may as well just buy a DAP and remove the potential.
Faraday bags are great to obscure transit paths, but not much beyond that.