New 2023 3500 Limited without Level 1 Equipment Group – Mistake?

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Man all these features to complain about makes me miss my 1st gen manual everything! Lol

 

[Mikerob14]

I guess being the poor guy here I’m lucky… I got all these features in my 23 Laramie and I really like them. I’ve never had any before or used them before so I have nothing else to grade against but overall I like these features. I like the lane sense even though it took a small amount of getting used to. The only thing I haven’t figured out and from what I have used so far don’t think I necessarily like is the ACC. It seems a little too accelerator/brake oriented for me, especially when I have to drive in south Florida mostly. It does do a really good job of sensing traffic stopping in front of me though, I was surprised by that. But overall I like the package and features. Again, just a poor man’s opinion, but a fresh one.

 

[jebruns]

The massive shroud surrounding the rear view mirror. It does a decent job of blocking the view compared to the standard mirror shroud. It’s blocks more view than any other ACC/FCC vehicle I’ve driven.

Driver height probably plays a role too, I’m 6’4”.

Ah, gotcha'. I haven't noticed it blocking my view any more than my 18 2500 w/o ACC/FCC. But I do know it is bigger. I'm 6'2", if that is a factor. It seems to hide well behind the digital rear view mirror.

 

[AH64ID]

Ah, gotcha'. I haven't noticed it blocking my view any more than my 18 2500 w/o ACC/FCC. But I do know it is bigger. I'm 6'2", if that is a factor. It seems to hide well behind the digital rear view mirror.

When I drive my dad’s truck, nearly the same as mine with the safety group, I’m always amazed at how much it blocks for its location. I would have expected less.

 

[Enve46]

Well, you’re in luck. It all has an off switch. Makes me wonder why you paid for it.

I got 18k off msrp and majority of the trucks have some or all of it. I bought it off the lot. If I could have ordered and waited, I would have ordered a tradesman with PW package OR a base Power Wagon. With how much off I got on the truck, I didn't REALLY pay for it considering this truck was higher optioned and lower purchase price than the others. Since it has an OFF switch, it would be dumb to NOT have paid for it.

 

[JimKIII]

I agree but will add I dont want any of it. I just bought a Power Wagon with adaptive cruise, lane assist etc and hate all that crap. If I wanted an autonomous car I wouldn't buy an 7-8k truck hahaha I simply dont trust any of it. I dont like the steering wheel being controlled by a computer and I also dont have trouble staying in my lanes. Maybe its different with a trailer but thats not me either so the less annoying **** the better. The only thing I do like is the blind spot monitoring and even that with the new mirrors isn't needed as much. I think everyone is becoming to reliant on autonomy and Im really against it in all ways hahaha I dont mean to sound like an angry Karen here its just not for me.

I agree with you 98%. My 2% disagreement is about the blind spot monitoring. But, as I've said in previous posts, and I'm certainly not alone, I grew up driving in the late 60s with hand-cranked windows, points and condensers, manual chokes, and only needing a 9/16 and 5/8 wrench with a few assorted screw drivers. Oh, and a clutch-spline alignment tool and break adjuster. All this other new-fangled BS - in my most humble opinion - just removes the driver little by little from learning the nuances of actual driving. Similar to flying. I have my father's WWII and later circular airspeed and temp slide rules he used during his 28yr USAAF/USAF flying career.

Ratchet forward to today, and a buddy of mine just retired 26yrs with the US Army Blackhawks. He said with all the new computers, GPS, and other automated navigational stuff crammed into the birds, the young pilots have almost zero knowledge of real hands-on navigation. Probably the same with the jet pilots. Lose the onboard computers and kiss yer ass goodbye as far as trying to make your way home. Here's a tidbit of information for you. If you look at the nose of a B-24 heavy bomber (what my father flew during WWII), you'll notice a plexiglass dome on the top of the nose in front of the cockpit. That's so the navigator can stand with his head in the clear dome, and with a sextant - yes a sextant! - plot his course. Now if that ain't a lost art!

 

[Dodgeman]

*

I agree with you 98%. My 2% disagreement is about the blind spot monitoring. But, as I've said in previous posts, and I'm certainly not alone, I grew up driving in the late 60s with hand-cranked windows, points and condensers, manual chokes, and only needing a 9/16 and 5/8 wrench with a few assorted screw drivers. Oh, and a clutch-spline alignment tool and break adjuster. All this other new-fangled BS - in my most humble opinion - just removes the driver little by little from learning the nuances of actual driving. Similar to flying. I have my father's WWII and later circular airspeed and temp slide rules he used during his 28yr USAAF/USAF flying career.

Ratchet forward to today, and a buddy of mine just retired 26yrs with the US Army Blackhawks. He said with all the new computers, GPS, and other automated navigational stuff crammed into the birds, the young pilots have almost zero knowledge of real hands-on navigation. Probably the same with the jet pilots. Lose the onboard computers and kiss yer ass goodbye as far as trying to make your way home. Here's a tidbit of information for you. If you look at the nose of a B-24 heavy bomber (what my father flew during WWII), you'll notice a plexiglass dome on the top of the nose in front of the cockpit. That's so the navigator can stand with his head in the clear dome, and with a sextant - yes a sextant! - plot his course. Now if that ain't a lost art!

I got my pilot’s license with a circular slide rule. Today’s glass cockpits are infinity safer. If a young pilot isn’t smart enough to have a backup plan in case of a failure (a $100 hand held GPS), that’s on them. If a driver using adaptive cruise or lane keeping isn’t smart enough to pay attention in case of the very remote possibility of a failure, that’s on them. I wouldn’t go back to replacing and adjusting points and retiming an engine every 3,000 miles or fussing with a choke for anything. I begrudge not having an “all windows up” button on my 2022 Ram 3500. The technology improvements in all aspects of life are amazing. Sure, some of them are being misused, social media being the most flagrant example, but that doesn’t negate the benefits of the improvements for the vast majority of the people that know how to use them responsibly.

We are getting a bit off topic from the OP’s question. I repeat my initial response - get all of the safety features you can afford. It may save your life or some else’s. Forget the 17 speaker sound system or the upgraded wheels and tires unless you have money to throw away. They look nice but add no functional value.

 

[AH64ID]

*

I got my pilot’s license with a circular slide rule. Today’s glass cockpits are infinity safer. If a young pilot isn’t smart enough to have a backup plan in case of a failure (a $100 hand held GPS), that’s on them. If a driver using adaptive cruise or lane keeping isn’t smart enough to pay attention in case of the very remote possibility of a failure, that’s on them. I wouldn’t go back to replacing and adjusting points and retiming an engine every 3,000 miles or fussing with a choke for anything. I begrudge not having an “all windows up” button on my 2022 Ram 3500. The technology improvements in all aspects of life are amazing. Sure, some of them are being misused, social media being the most flagrant example, but that doesn’t negate the benefits of the improvements for the vast majority of the people that know how to use them responsibly.

The issue, with pilots and drivers alike, is that they don’t know any better. Nothing bad has ever happened, and they have zero skills without all the assistance. That’s the difference in learning to drive/fly without the aids and growing up with them.

Many technology improvements are great right now, but are only making humans weaker and dumber.

We are getting a bit off topic from the OP’s question. I repeat my initial response - get all of the safety features you can afford. It may save your life or some else’s. Forget the 17 speaker sound system or the upgraded wheels and tires unless you have money to throw away. They look nice but add no functional value.

I agree on the 17 speakers, but the upgraded 20” wheels do provide improved stability when loaded over the 18” wheels. Aluminum vs steel of the same size also reduces unsprung weight, which is an improvement as well.

 

[JimKIII]

The issue, with pilots and drivers alike, is that they don’t know any better. Nothing bad has ever happened, and they have zero skills without all the assistance. That’s the difference in learning to drive/fly without the aids and growing up with them.

Many technology improvements are great right now, but are only making humans weaker and dumber.



I agree on the 17 speakers, but the upgraded 20” wheels do provide improved stability when loaded over the 18” wheels. Aluminum vs steel of the same size also reduces unsprung weight, which is an improvement as well.

"The issue, with pilots and drivers alike, is that they don’t know any better. Nothing bad has ever happened, and they have zero skills without all the assistance. That’s the difference in learning to drive/fly without the aids and growing up with them.
Many technology improvements are great right now, but are only making humans weaker and dumber."

Exactly my point! Which was also the point my SGM (Sargent Major, E9, for you non-military folks) friend, 26 yrs with Blackhawks, lamented about. Also, I bring up the old days of adjusting points only to highlight that back then anyone, including dumb old me, could tune up, fix, and otherwise keep our cars and trucks purring with just a little bit of mechanical sense. Not frigging anymore! Also, there were none of these perpetual software downloads, tech bulletins, and the seemingly endless recalls that all these modern "safety features" bring with them. Anyway, we're where we are and there's no going back. I admit, when one gets to my age, one tends to reminisce a bit more than is probably useful. Ha ha.

 

[Brutal_HO]

"The issue, with pilots and drivers alike, is that they don’t know any better. Nothing bad has ever happened, and they have zero skills without all the assistance. That’s the difference in learning to drive/fly without the aids and growing up with them.
Many technology improvements are great right now, but are only making humans weaker and dumber."

Exactly my point! Which was also the point my SGM (Sargent Major, E9, for you non-military folks) friend, 26 yrs with Blackhawks, lamented about. Also, I bring up the old days of adjusting points only to highlight that back then anyone, including dumb old me, could tune up, fix, and otherwise keep our cars and trucks purring with just a little bit of mechanical sense. Not frigging anymore! Also, there were none of these perpetual software downloads, tech bulletins, and the seemingly endless recalls that all these modern "safety features" bring with them. Anyway, we're where we are and there's no going back. I admit, when one gets to my age, one tends to reminisce a bit more than is probably useful. Ha ha.

Sergeant Major.

 

[sanda]

For me the safety group was a must NOT have.

I wouldn’t mind adaptive cruise control, but lane keep assist sucks and the adaptive steering feel in these Rams is atrocious, I hate it. It’s absolutely the worst feeling steering of any rig I’ve driven with it and doesn’t belong in an HD truck.

That’s all aside from the huge blind spot increase that the safety group stuff adds, to me it’s not worth any of it.

I agree 100%. I drove one with adaptive cruise and steering. The cruise would start slowing way to soon and the steering would fight me when I tried to stay exactly in the center of the lane. I did end up with the auto dim feature but turned it off as it would dim the lights on an open road when it saw a sign ahead of me.

 

[JimKIII]

Sergeant Major

I stand corrected.

 

[jsalbre]

I love all the driving assist features, and use them every time I drive. Do I need them? Of course not. But the small assistance they offer make me way less tired at the end of a day of road-tripping.

 

[Enve46]

I agree with you 98%. My 2% disagreement is about the blind spot monitoring. But, as I've said in previous posts, and I'm certainly not alone, I grew up driving in the late 60s with hand-cranked windows, points and condensers, manual chokes, and only needing a 9/16 and 5/8 wrench with a few assorted screw drivers. Oh, and a clutch-spline alignment tool and break adjuster. All this other new-fangled BS - in my most humble opinion - just removes the driver little by little from learning the nuances of actual driving. Similar to flying. I have my father's WWII and later circular airspeed and temp slide rules he used during his 28yr USAAF/USAF flying career.

Ratchet forward to today, and a buddy of mine just retired 26yrs with the US Army Blackhawks. He said with all the new computers, GPS, and other automated navigational stuff crammed into the birds, the young pilots have almost zero knowledge of real hands-on navigation. Probably the same with the jet pilots. Lose the onboard computers and kiss yer ass goodbye as far as trying to make your way home. Here's a tidbit of information for you. If you look at the nose of a B-24 heavy bomber (what my father flew during WWII), you'll notice a plexiglass dome on the top of the nose in front of the cockpit. That's so the navigator can stand with his head in the clear dome, and with a sextant - yes a sextant! - plot his course. Now if that ain't a lost art!

Agreed. I think there’s a place for technology and when used correctly it can be beneficial. However humans are inherently lazy and when technology does something for us, we tend to let it do its job without learning the skill it’s assisting. To me, I just don’t want something else controlling the vehicle.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I agree 100%. I drove one with adaptive cruise and steering. The cruise would start slowing way to soon and the steering would fight me when I tried to stay exactly in the center of the lane. I did end up with the auto dim feature but turned it off as it would dim the lights on an open road when it saw a sign ahead of me.

Both lane assist and adaptive cruise have adjustable parameters, strength, delay, distance, etc.