Used 2022 RAM 3500s

[wyvern]

Hey all,

I'm still waffling hard on my next steps in procuring a 3500.

My local dealer basically told me to pound salt when I asked if they would match Granger/Mark Dodge's below invoice pricing. This has had me hemming and hawing back and forth on whether I should just try to find a used truck to ride out until the 2023/2024 DPF issues are sorted.

I've found a 2022 HO that is precisely everything I want down to the last option with only 48k miles on the clock. It has a build date of 10/21 which seems to be out of the trouble range for the Aisin snap ring failures meticulously and helpfully documented by @mbarber84. Asking price is $68k which isn't too bad.

However, I still see so many scattered reports of HO engine failures on the 2022 model years specifically. The earlier the build date, the more likely your engine is smoked and needs a rebuild.

Problem is, these failures don't seem to show up until around 100k, which by my estimate is about 1/3rd of the life of an HO. There's no way I'd even hit that mileage for another 3-4 years. I feel like I'm wasting too much time going back and forth on this issue but it's still a lot of money and I want to make sure I'm not going to be hung out to dry in a few years when/if the motor goes boom.

Thanks for the 2c, all.

 

[CFE]

Hey all,

I'm still waffling hard on my next steps in procuring a 3500.

My local dealer basically told me to pound salt when I asked if they would match Granger/Mark Dodge's below invoice pricing. This has had me hemming and hawing back and forth on whether I should just try to find a used truck to ride out until the 2023/2024 DPF issues are sorted.

I've found a 2022 HO that is precisely everything I want down to the last option with only 48k miles on the clock. It has a build date of 10/21 which seems to be out of the trouble range for the Aisin snap ring failures meticulously and helpfully documented by @mbarber84. Asking price is $68k which isn't too bad.

However, I still see so many scattered reports of HO engine failures on the 2022 model years specifically. The earlier the build date, the more likely your engine is smoked and needs a rebuild.

Problem is, these failures don't seem to show up until around 100k, which by my estimate is about 1/3rd of the life of an HO. There's no way I'd even hit that mileage for another 3-4 years. I feel like I'm wasting too much time going back and forth on this issue but it's still a lot of money and I want to make sure I'm not going to be hung out to dry in a few years when/if the motor goes boom.

Thanks for the 2c, all.

IMO - given the data being collected here and other SM sites with the AISIN trans failures, I would imagine Stellantis is working on addressing it in the future (or will be forced too - as the failures seem pretty catastrophic). So I wouldn't let that deter you from buying one - although it's your money. I have a 2022 w/ 28k miles and no issues as of yet (May 22 build date) - but I'm not consistently under load w/ the truck.

Your other option is to order from MD and just fly out and drive the truck back - that's what I did with my 22, because my local dealer was like yours and wasn't willing to price match and thought I was nuts when I told them how much I could get it for under sticker - and I was a cash buyer at that.

 

[Thisnthat]

Mark Dodge and Granger both have 3500s on the lot with the same discounts they are offering when ordering ---MD has a few tradesmans they're "only" offering $5k off - but everything else is significant, especially with an additional $1500 rebate that won't be available on a 2024 initially.

Guess it all depends on where you're located...If across the country, there's bound to be some dealers within a day's drive that has inventory they are willing to deal on. Take a hour or so, find 10 trucks using Ram's locator and draft a template email and send it to all the different dealers - see if someone will bite. Any dealer not willing to discount inventory isn't someone I'd want to do business with in the current market

 

[wyvern]

IMO - given the data being collected here and other SM sites with the AISIN trans failures, I would imagine Stellantis is working on addressing it in the future (or will be forced too - as the failures seem pretty catastrophic). So I wouldn't let that deter you from buying one - although it's your money. I have a 2022 w/ 28k miles and no issues as of yet (May 22 build date) - but I'm not consistently under load w/ the truck.

Your other option is to order from MD and just fly out and drive the truck back - that's what I did with my 22, because my local dealer was like yours and wasn't willing to price match and thought I was nuts when I told them how much I could get it for under sticker - and I was a cash buyer at that.

This was my EXACT experience as a cash buyer, absolutely crazy.

 

[wyvern]

Mark Dodge and Granger both have 3500s on the lot with the same discounts they are offering when ordering ---MD has a few tradesmans they're "only" offering $5k off - but everything else is significant, especially with an additional $1500 rebate that won't be available on a 2024 initially.

Guess it all depends on where you're located...If across the country, there's bound to be some dealers within a day's drive that has inventory they are willing to deal on. Take a hour or so, find 10 trucks using Ram's locator and draft a template email and send it to all the different dealers - see if someone will bite. Any dealer not willing to discount inventory isn't someone I'd want to do business with in the current market

True, this is a good point, but I guess I'm still unsure if the 2023/2024 models are any better. It really seems like the 2021 made vehicles take the cake for being issue free.

 

[CFE]

This was my EXACT experience as a cash buyer, absolutely crazy.

Some dealers hate money apparently.

 

[gimmie11s]

Hey all,

I'm still waffling hard on my next steps in procuring a 3500.

My local dealer basically told me to pound salt when I asked if they would match Granger/Mark Dodge's below invoice pricing. This has had me hemming and hawing back and forth on whether I should just try to find a used truck to ride out until the 2023/2024 DPF issues are sorted.

I've found a 2022 HO that is precisely everything I want down to the last option with only 48k miles on the clock. It has a build date of 10/21 which seems to be out of the trouble range for the Aisin snap ring failures meticulously and helpfully documented by @mbarber84. Asking price is $68k which isn't too bad.

However, I still see so many scattered reports of HO engine failures on the 2022 model years specifically. The earlier the build date, the more likely your engine is smoked and needs a rebuild.

Problem is, these failures don't seem to show up until around 100k, which by my estimate is about 1/3rd of the life of an HO. There's no way I'd even hit that mileage for another 3-4 years. I feel like I'm wasting too much time going back and forth on this issue but it's still a lot of money and I want to make sure I'm not going to be hung out to dry in a few years when/if the motor goes boom.

Thanks for the 2c, all.

Links to some of the HO engine failures? I'd love to read up on some of that. What is failing on them?

 

[wyvern]

Links to some of the HO engine failures? I'd love to read up on some of that. What is failing on them?

2022 High mileage motor failures?

I follow a few threads here and a couple of YouTube channels. One channel in particular has a guy with a fleet doing hotshot work. He has around 30 trucks, 8 of them 2022’s. It doesn’t sound like he’s had any transmission issues like some of us have, but all of his 2022’s are near the 100k mark...

hdrams.com

According to a hotshot trucking company owner, the engines begin to experience knock and compression loss at around 100k miles. First sign is a P2459 code --> P242F code. He had 4/8 new 2022 trucks fail on him at around the exact same mileage.

Might be isolated to the batch he bought (fleet), but they all come from the same plant and who knows how many timebombs are out there as most people never get to these mileages as fast as fleet owners.

Might be coincidental, but on the used market the 2022s are far and away the most common years of these trucks.

 

[gimmie11s]

2022 High mileage motor failures?

I follow a few threads here and a couple of YouTube channels. One channel in particular has a guy with a fleet doing hotshot work. He has around 30 trucks, 8 of them 2022’s. It doesn’t sound like he’s had any transmission issues like some of us have, but all of his 2022’s are near the 100k mark...

hdrams.com

According to a hotshot trucking company owner, the engines begin to experience knock and compression loss at around 100k miles. First sign is a P2459 code --> P242F code. He had 4/8 new 2022 trucks fail on him at around the exact same mileage.

Might be isolated to the batch he bought (fleet), but they all come from the same plant and who knows how many timebombs are out there as most people never get to these mileages as fast as fleet owners.

Might be coincidental, but on the used market the 2022s are far and away the most common years of these trucks.

Interesting, but nowhere near a trend if this is one guy and one fleet. Low idle oil psi I suppose could be a contributor if you are excessively idling.

 

[wyvern]

Interesting, but nowhere near a trend if this is one guy and one fleet. Low idle oil psi I suppose could be a contributor if you are excessively idling.

yeah I could be just neurotic. I tend to get this way when making decisions lol.

 

[gimmie11s]

yeah I could be just neurotic. I tend to get this way when making decisions lol.

I don't blame you a bit the way things have been doing. Dang.

Maybe you should just find a one-owner 12 valve with 50k miles, pay $40k for it and call it a day hahahaha.

Geez!

 

[wyvern]

I don't blame you a bit the way things have been doing. Dang.

Maybe you should just find a one-owner 12 valve with 50k miles, pay $40k for it and call it a day hahahaha.

Geez!

brother trust me, I've tried! Haha, I've been at this for months. Almost bought another 1997 12 valve 3500 back in April, the guy wouldn't take a cent less than $17k and the tappet cover was leaking like a stuck pig. Things are just nuts these days.

 

[gimmie11s]

brother trust me, I've tried! Haha, I've been at this for months. Almost bought another 1997 12 valve 3500 back in April, the guy wouldn't take a cent less than $17k and the tappet cover was leaking like a stuck pig. Things are just nuts these days.

Yep. I could easily get $20k for my '99 24v with 180k miles out here in SoCal. Things have gone mad.

 

[mbarber84]

Not at all trying to be a naysayer but I have not heard anything to the effect of “HO engines are prone to failure in 2022’s”. I am aware of the video / company / YouTuber you are referring to and, although he has had a significant number of failures, I don’t believe his failures alone would constitute a major issue. I’ve watched the videos, listen to the ramblings, and at no point did I hear anything concrete. Lots of theories, rambling, etc but not definitive diagnostics. At the same time, I’ve seen some of the idle hours on those trucks and I’m curious if that plays a part. Historically hydraulic lifter engines do not like lower oil pressure or idling. Two things that tend to go hand in hand. Hotshot drivers are notoriously bad for extended idle times. There are for sure some “2022” model year specific issues that are popping up lately but I don’t believe HO engine failure is one of them. Frequent regeneration is another story entirely. There is most definitely an issue there. As is the K1 snap ring failures on the Aisin. (Up to 315 trucks on my spreadsheet as of today). As for the build date, 10/21 would be the same as my 2022. Based on my research I feel like I am in the clear with that build date. However I can’t completely rule it out as there are a few 2022’s built in 2021 that have suffered a k1 failure.

 

[wyvern]

Not at all trying to be a naysayer but I have not heard anything to the effect of “HO engines are prone to failure in 2022’s”. I am aware of the video / company / YouTuber you are referring to and, although he has had a significant number of failures, I don’t believe his failures alone would constitute a major issue. I’ve watched the videos, listen to the ramblings, and at no point did I hear anything concrete. Lots of theories, rambling, etc but not definitive diagnostics. At the same time, I’ve seen some of the idle hours on those trucks and I’m curious if that plays a part. Historically hydraulic lifter engines do not like lower oil pressure or idling. Two things that tend to go hand in hand. Hotshot drivers are notoriously bad for extended idle times. There are for sure some “2022” model year specific issues that are popping up lately but I don’t believe HO engine failure is one of them. Frequent regeneration is another story entirely. There is most definitely an issue there. As is the K1 snap ring failures on the Aisin. (Up to 315 trucks on my spreadsheet as of today). As for the build date, 10/21 would be the same as my 2022. Based on my research I feel like I am in the clear with that build date. However I can’t completely rule it out as there are a few 2022’s built in 2021 that have suffered a k1 failure.

These are all good points. Can't tell you how much your spreadsheet has helped.

I think the mileage of 48k combined with the fact that the truck I'm looking at is a 10/21 build date means it's probably not a snap ring issue right? It seems those failures are typically seen under 3-5k miles, and if you make it much past you're usually in the clear, no?

 

[mbarber84]

These are all good points. Can't tell you how much your spreadsheet has helped.

I think the mileage of 48k combined with the fact that the truck I'm looking at is a 10/21 build date means it's probably not a snap ring issue right? It seems those failures are typically seen under 3-5k miles, and if you make it much past you're usually in the clear, no?

There have been failures at widely varying mileages. However, I can say that failures above 20k are much more rare. I would feel fairly confident that by 48k it would have demonstrated failure. However, since there is no formal definition from Ram as to why this failure occurs, everything is educated guess work. Which is, of course, very sad for the consumers who already went through this ordeal as well as those yet to experience it.

Also….the official count is now 317. I added two more trucks since my previous reply.

 

[Blythkd1]

Some dealers hate money apparently.

They hate cash. They don't make anything on it. They want your financing, they make money on that.

I actually had a deal in writing a couple years ago when a finance guy called to get my financing information. I said thank you but I'll just be writing you a check. He said then the price is going up. That was a very short conversation. Guys like that make me want to give them a big fat deal with a high finance rate, then pay it off before the first payment is due so he gets a big fat chargeback.

 

[Ridered67]

This was my EXACT experience as a cash buyer, absolutely crazy.

Pssss.......dealers don't like cash buyers because they'res less profit. Cash is prince when it comes to negotiating car deals

 

[Cseybert]

You never know what you’re going to get these days. New or old, buying vehicles these days is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get.

 

[Firebird]

True, this is a good point, but I guess I'm still unsure if the 2023/2024 models are any better. It really seems like the 2021 made vehicles take the cake for being issue free.

I completely understand, my 2021 has been fantastic! Just turned 30,000 miles