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Toyota Has Me Tempted To Separate From Power Wagon

Nick said:
The Last LC I had was a 74 FJ 40 loved that truck . Super tough and reliable . Never in all the years I owned it did it ever let me down 4 wheeling . Drove it cross country twice . As much as those L C' s cost these days I couldn't imagine bouncing down trails and scratching and dinging it .
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These new LCs are supposed to start mid 50k…less than a PW. But yeah the 200 series were 80k+ and that was before Covid pricing now everything has jumped
 
Poolmonkey said:
Maybe, but only until it leaves you stranded in the middle of nowhere..if it manages to get in the middle of nowhere.
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Yeah…full electric not for me yet. I think the bigger issue with those rivians is everything is electrical: tailgate, center console, etc. battery dies and NOTHING works. But they do look pretty neat.
 
I came from a 2021 4Runner to a 2022 PW...and honestly, I've never looked back once. So here's my .02 and it can be summed up simply with...do whatever makes YOU happy. For me, not being able to 'effectively' (without beating the **** out of the vehicle) tow 2660 lbs of dry camper trailer (with a 6000 lb tow capacity) over a Colorado mountain pass plain wore me out. I hated the idea of towing, and we camp a lot. Towing was simply a miserable experience. Off road, the 4Runner is a dream but I towed to reach the 4x4 roads. The Toyota performance benefits for the 4Runner were squarely weighted towards near bulletproof reliability and zero weight towards speed, mpg, towing, and tech amenities. I suspect the LC will have a bit more refinement and possibly the vaunted Toyota reliability after a few iterations of the vehicle...but it will take a lot to pull me away from the PW. A turbo 4 cylinder can be a powerful platform but damn...it just doesn't feel sexy. Instead, it feels like Toyota engineers are meeting mpg requirements at the continued expense of across the board performance. Good luck on with whatever you decide.
 
GoAWOL said:
I came from a 2021 4Runner to a 2022 PW...and honestly, I've never looked back once. So here's my .02 and it can be summed up simply with...do whatever makes YOU happy. For me, not being able to 'effectively' (without beating the **** out of the vehicle) tow 2660 lbs of dry camper trailer (with a 6000 lb tow capacity) over a Colorado mountain pass plain wore me out. I hated the idea of towing, and we camp a lot. Towing was simply a miserable experience. Off road, the 4Runner is a dream but I towed to reach the 4x4 roads. The Toyota performance benefits for the 4Runner were squarely weighted towards near bulletproof reliability and zero weight towards speed, mpg, towing, and tech amenities. I suspect the LC will have a bit more refinement and possibly the vaunted Toyota reliability after a few iterations of the vehicle...but it will take a lot to pull me away from the PW. A turbo 4 cylinder can be a powerful platform but damn...it just doesn't feel sexy. Instead, it feels like Toyota engineers are meeting mpg requirements at the continued expense of across the board performance. Good luck on with whatever you decide.
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Thanks for sharing your perspective. I’m also in CO so I know all about how demanding the Colorado roads are on an engine/transmission!
But if we’re being honest it’s unfair to compare the T4Rs ancient 4.0 (270hp/278ftlb before altitude tax) paired with 5 speed auto to this 4 cyl turbo hybrid and an 8 speed auto. Sure it’s pretty simple and reliable, but I don’t ever hear anyone singing praises about its performance.

I agree a 4 cyl isn’t sexy on paper and won’t ever sound like a v8, but neither is a V6. At least the 4cyl is typically easy to work on due to its compact simple size and limited number of parts (example: Hemi has 16 spark plugs lol). I have (too much) experience working on a twin turbo v6 that I have a special appreciation for having space to reach things in the engine bay and not having two of everything
 
el_barto said:
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I’m also in CO so I know all about how demanding the Colorado roads are on an engine/transmission!
But if we’re being honest it’s unfair to compare the T4Rs ancient 4.0 (270hp/278ftlb before altitude tax) paired with 5 speed auto to this 4 cyl turbo hybrid and an 8 speed auto. Sure it’s pretty simple and reliable, but I don’t ever hear anyone singing praises about its performance.

I agree a 4 cyl isn’t sexy on paper and won’t ever sound like a v8, but neither is a V6. At least the 4cyl is typically easy to work on due to its compact simple size and limited number of parts (example: Hemi has 16 spark plugs lol). I have (too much) experience working on a twin turbo v6 that I have a special appreciation for having space to reach things in the engine bay and not having two of everything
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Wasn't trying to compare vehicles and power plants as much as I was trying to capture Toyota's approach to the US market. You get capable off-road vehicles and reliable ones for the most part...but...they don't scratch my itch for all the reasons listed in my original post. I think the new Tundra comes close but that TRD Pro price tag is a high bar for entry. Anywho...OP needs to do what works for him.
 
el_barto said:
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I’m also in CO so I know all about how demanding the Colorado roads are on an engine/transmission!
But if we’re being honest it’s unfair to compare the T4Rs ancient 4.0 (270hp/278ftlb before altitude tax) paired with 5 speed auto to this 4 cyl turbo hybrid and an 8 speed auto. Sure it’s pretty simple and reliable, but I don’t ever hear anyone singing praises about its performance.

I agree a 4 cyl isn’t sexy on paper and won’t ever sound like a v8, but neither is a V6. At least the 4cyl is typically easy to work on due to its compact simple size and limited number of parts (example: Hemi has 16 spark plugs lol). I have (too much) experience working on a twin turbo v6 that I have a special appreciation for having space to reach things in the engine bay and not having two of everything
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It’s also unfair to compare hybrid combined power to non-hybrid power, as hybrid combined power can vary a lot more than non-hybrid power can.

Altitude tax isn’t as bad as it looks, since most engines aren’t using 100% of their available air at sea level. Even turbo motors lose power with altitude, just not as fast. Bottom line is that the 3% difference per 1K feet realistically isn’t 3%/1K feet.
 
edit: TLDR; Own both types of rigs, if forced to pick one would pick the LC for practicality, but the Power Wagon is more fun in the right conditions.

My personal take + personal experience.

Land Cruiser refers to both a family of Toyota vehicles as well as the top model within that family of vehicles.

The new 'Land Cruiser' looks compelling as a well-rounded adventure rig. I put Land Cruiser in quotes because LC enthusiasts here in the USA are upset that Toyota is taking what is the light-duty version sold globally as the Land Cruiser Prado and marketing it as THE Land Cruiser here in the US. They have a valid business reason for doing so .... the real Land Cruisers that were sold here were more than most Americans were willing to pay for a Toyota Badge. So they have taken the Prado and are pushing it as The Land Cruiser.

Why do some people care? The top dog Land Cruiser has a 25 year service life with regards to components' robustness / durability. It is intentionally overbuilt. The rest of the vehicles in the family are generally not built to quite the same pinnacle.

That said, Prados are very nice tough vehicles too and I am sure that this new 'Land Cruiser' will be an awesome platform. I'm a little more excited for the Lexus variant, the GX 550, with its Turbo 6 engine.

Ramble aside, I own both a 2017 PW and a 2006 Land Cruiser (LC100 generation). They are both awesome in their own right.

The LC is smaller and fits better on narrower trails and shelf roads. I am up to 240k miles and all maintenance has been routine stuff... brakes, alternator, battery, fluids, I have full confidence the drivetrain could go to 500K within any rebuilds needed. It is a great family adventure rig for long road trips and moderate trails. It also works as a daily because the size is still OK for parking garages and city parking. Mine is stock aside from 33" tires.

The Power Wagon on 37s can handle rougher more technical terrain, provided it has the space to maneuver, it has also been pretty reliable in the 100K miles driven so far.
 
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The GX looks awesome but only in the “off-road” trim. The Land Cruiser makes me happy that they offer it in a base trim for 50k and i really like the base trim. The last gen LC started around 80k

I would love one. But I’m stuck in my ram forever. it was a stretch to buy it at $39k new vehicles are out of reach. Idk how you guys do it.
 
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Rockcrawlindude said:
The GX looks awesome but only in the “off-road” trim. The Land Cruiser makes me happy that they offer it in a base trim for 50k and i really like the base trim. The last gen LC started around 80k

I would love one. But I’m stuck in my ram forever. it was a stretch to buy it at $39k new vehicles are out of reach. Idk how you guys do it.
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Based on KBB, I think I could resell my PW for about as much or more than I paid originally, and would put me pretty close to a straight trade for a base (1958) LC.
I agree the 200 series was way overpriced and had too much luxo-bloat.
 
Is the new LC sized like a 4Runner/prado/gx now? or bigger like a sequoia or the previous gen LC was? I assume it’s smaller like the GX was smaller than the LC, meaning they’ve bumped it back in size?

The new trd sequoia is wicked although doesn’t have the off-road lineage of the LC it has a larger engine like a tundra
 
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el_barto said:
These new LCs are supposed to start mid 50k…less than a PW. But yeah the 200 series were 80k+ and that was before Covid pricing now everything has jumped
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Power Wagon pricing is ridiculous now. Even through Toyota dealers are almost certainly going to be adding ADMs to LCs as they start appearing on lots, I can't see pricing get up to current PW pricing. Perhaps fully loaded everything LC with ADM vs barebones PW (now without standard winch) and we may see the prices touch.
 
I think the bottom of used PW pricing has tanked.. I got offered $41000 for my 2020 perfect condition,low miles (31000) Power wagon. that is with AEV wheels and near new Toyo 35's and RSI topper. KBB is not keeping with reality. Ford broncos on the other hand are commanding a very high price...still over msrp.
 
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