I know it only hurts your wallet but...

[AH64ID]

For us uninformed, what is TBN, CK, ULSD, & LSD

TBN: Total Base Number, it’s fights the acidity from combustion that ends up in the oil.

CK or CK-4: the current spec for diesel oil.

ULSD: Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel 15ppm

LSD: Low Sulfur Diesel 500ppm

 

[dogbreath650]

Thanks. So, is the TBN higher in the CK-4 spec oil?

 

[AH64ID]

Thanks. So, is the TBN higher in the CK-4 spec oil?

No, TBN on CK-4 is the same as CJ-4, which is lower than CI-4. CI-4 was the spec for LSD and needed the TBN because of the fuel, but OCI’s didn’t exceed 6 months at the time.

Now we have lower TBN and longer intervals, but the fuel we use promotes this. The question is how much longer can we run oil on lower TBN.

This is all diesel spec, I cannot speak to gas specs other than what I’ve seen on UOA’s on 20 year old Toyota gas engines.

 

[dogbreath650]

Sorry I'm trying hard to understand all this but you're killing me with these acronyms. I tried looking up OCI and found: open container initiative; oracle cloud infrastructure; overseas citizen of India and others. I did also find oil climate initiative but can't see the relation. So, what's OCI?

 

[flan]

Sorry I'm trying hard to understand all this but you're killing me with these acronyms. I tried looking up OCI and found: open container initiative; oracle cloud infrastructure; overseas citizen of India and others. I did also find oil climate initiative but can't see the relation. So, what's OCI?

Oil change interval

 

[AH64ID]

Another one you may see is UOA, used oil analysis.

 

[jsalbre]

If you drag your OCI out too long and have a TCN do your UOA in the DMZ your engine might be DOA and you’ll be SOL.

 

[jetrinka]

If you drag your OCI out too long and have a TCN do your UOA in the DMZ your engine might be DOA and you’ll be SOL.

LOL perfection!!!

 

[thecastle]

its interesting to me that ram requires yearly fuel filter changes. My 2000 Ford 7.3 powerstroke and my BMW 335D diesels were both milage only. Every 30K miles. Engine hours make sense as well. But time based changes, I wonder what Cummins Engineers are thinking. Biofilm build up? I've not changed the fuel filters on my 2000 powerstroke since 2019. I had 321K miles on it, and it sits now at 336K, runs fine.

Oh one other observation, my gasoline powered cars have no recommended fuel filter change interval. My 2016 BMW 550i with 90k miles is on its original fuel filter.

I am doing yearly oil and fuel filter changes even though I've not reached their service life, but time, and I follow the recommended maintenance on this truck especially while under the powertrain warranty.

 

[AH64ID]

its interesting to me that ram requires yearly fuel filter changes. My 2000 Ford 7.3 powerstroke and my BMW 335D diesels were both milage only. Every 30K miles. Engine hours make sense as well. But time based changes, I wonder what Cummins Engineers are thinking. Biofilm build up? I've not changed the fuel filters on my 2000 powerstroke since 2019. I had 321K miles on it, and it sits now at 336K, runs fine.

Oh one other observation, my gasoline powered cars have no recommended fuel filter change interval. My 2016 BMW 550i with 90k miles is on its original fuel filter.

I am doing yearly oil and fuel filter changes even though I've not reached their service life, but time, and I follow the recommended maintenance on this truck especially while under the powertrain warranty.

Your 2000 powerstroke is a 15K mile change interval.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/00nmgmg3e.pdf

The reason there is a time limit on many services is because fluids and lubricants degrade over time and filters also can deteriorate, despite low miles. Many older fuel filters have paper in them, and most of not all of them have some sort of glue. Gaskets start to fail, etc.

Even when I ran 3 better than stock fuel filters on my 05 I would change them every 18 months. It’s cheaper than an injection system issue.

Gas fuel filters are nothing like diesel fuel filters, they are basically rock catchers to keep a pump clean. Most cars run only a few psi to their injectors, instead of a few thousand. Some vehicles have no recommended service interval, and some do (such as those gas Ford vehicles in the manual above recommend the filter to be changed every 30K). I have 229K on the OE filter in my 4Runner.

 

[thecastle]

you are correct my old powerstroke is 15,000 miles but with no time limit I was going from memory. Bmw M57 twin turbo diesel inline-6 was every 2nd oil change which would be a maximum of 2yrs or 30k miles. I looked it up.

still I find it fascinating that ram feels strongly enough that the filter media degrades with time to specify a time interval that is only 12 months.

thats not really true on gasoline engines anymore. They are running higher fuel pressures in gasoline engines too. Honda is running at 4300psi on its direct injection v6 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42662418/honda-35-v-6-engine-dohc/

bmw is at 5000+psi on gasoline engines https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/...ne-and-powertrain-award-winner?language=en_US

injection pressures on gasoline gdi engines aren’t what they used to be but they have gotten much higher and certainly aren’t as high as diesels yet... my bmw diesel was 29,000 psi in 2009. Now if your talking old timey port injection gasoline their injection pressures aren’t high. But GDI has really pushed the injection pressures up for the same reasons as diesel, and they two are doing multiple injection events.

my point being only and observation. gasoline engines are rapidly going to high pressures like diesels for injection. But why the time limit on ram diesels on filters, I wonder what issue they are trying to mitigate At Cummins.

i don’t have an issue with changing them other than the dealer wants a premium to do so. They want $400 for the job on my 19 HO

 

[AH64ID]

you are correct my old powerstroke is 15,000 miles but with no time limit I was going from memory. Bmw M57 twin turbo diesel inline-6 was every 2nd oil change which would be a maximum of 2yrs or 30k miles. I looked it up.

still I find it fascinating that ram feels strongly enough that the filter media degrades with time to specify a time interval that is only 12 months.

thats not really true on gasoline engines anymore. They are running higher fuel pressures in gasoline engines too. Honda is running at 4300psi on its direct injection v6 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42662418/honda-35-v-6-engine-dohc/

bmw is at 5000+psi on gasoline engines https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/...ne-and-powertrain-award-winner?language=en_US

injection pressures on gasoline gdi engines aren’t what they used to be but they have gotten much higher and certainly aren’t as high as diesels yet... my bmw diesel was 29,000 psi in 2009. Now if your talking old timey port injection gasoline their injection pressures aren’t high. But GDI has really pushed the injection pressures up for the same reasons as diesel, and they two are doing multiple injection events.

my point being only and observation. gasoline engines are rapidly going to high pressures like diesels for injection. But why the time limit on ram diesels on filters, I wonder what issue they are trying to mitigate At Cummins.

i don’t have an issue with changing them other than the dealer wants a premium to do so. They want $400 for the job on my 19 HO

It’s not just Ram. The current powerstroke has 2 different maintenance schedules, normal and special operating conditions. Under normal you can go 30K miles on one set without a time limit. Under any special operating condition it’s 15K miles, 600 hours, or 6 months. Reading what constitutes special operation conditions there are very few applications that would be “normal”.

Yes gas pressures are getting higher, but we idle above 5K.

 

[thecastle]

It’s not just Ram. The current powerstroke has 2 different maintenance schedules, normal and special operating conditions. Under normal you can go 30K miles on one set without a time limit. Under any special operating condition it’s 15K miles, 600 hours, or 6 months. Reading what constitutes special operation conditions there are very few applications that would be “normal”.

Yes gas pressures are getting higher, but we idle above 5K.

That was true with the 2000 7.3 powerstroke as well, there is a severe duty. The 2000 F-450 I have is a bucket truck, with service body and I tend to follow the severe duty maintenance on this vehicle, which isn't that different than the regular duty. I tow with the F-450 and RAM 3500. For grins, I looked it up, the 2000 7.3L powerstroke runs at 450-3000psi injection pressures. The only reason I care about the design trades Cummins made on the fuel filters, is their replacement is $400 at the dealer. Since the RAM 3500 is owned by my company, I track expenses carefully. My Powerjoke's 2 filters are $135 for both done at the dealer BTW, Which is a big difference in price. Not apples to apples I'm aware.

 

[AH64ID]

That was true with the 2000 7.3 powerstroke as well, there is a severe duty. The 2000 F-450 I have is a bucket truck, with service body and I tend to follow the severe duty maintenance on this vehicle, which isn't that different than the regular duty.

Correct, but it doesn't change the fuel filter service interval or add a time limit like it does on the 6.7 Powerstroke.

For grins, I looked it up, the 7.3L powerstroke runs at 450-3000psi injection pressures. So gasoline is definitely catching up. My engineering mind would still like to know the design choices made by the manufacturers that have us changing diesel fuel filters based on time, as well as fuel flow.

Catching up to 30 year old diesel technology. The VP44 (98-02) was capable of 23,200 psi, and those injectors needed over 4,000 psi just to pop. Even the early Cummins (89-93) with a VE pump took over 3500 psi to pop.

 

[tchur1]

Not

That was true with the 2000 7.3 powerstroke as well, there is a severe duty. The 2000 F-450 I have is a bucket truck, with service body and I tend to follow the severe duty maintenance on this vehicle, which isn't that different than the regular duty. I tow with the F-450 and RAM 3500. For grins, I looked it up, the 2000 7.3L powerstroke runs at 450-3000psi injection pressures. The only reason I care about the design trades Cummins made on the fuel filters, is their replacement is $400 at the dealer. Since the RAM 3500 is owned by my company, I track expenses carefully. My Powerjoke's 2 filters are $135 for both done at the dealer BTW, Which is a big difference in price. Not apples to apples I'm aware.

Not related to service intervals but you can change the fuel filters in your driveway in like an hour for less than $150. I did my truck for the first time a month ago and was surprised how easy it was.