tyler2you
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In addition to the other considerations raised above, I don't see very many charging stations (at least in my area) that can handle a truck/trailer combo that is nearly always going to exceed 40 ft.
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Death of Diesel
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thothtp
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Common misconception, but that is not how the math works. EV's don't spend all their time charging, nor do they all charge at once.
Source:
Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management
One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine. Here’s how.
www.forbes.com
"Let’s do the same calculation for the USA. In 2020, there were 286.9 million cars registered in America. In 2020, while the US grid had 1,117.5TW of utility electricity capacity and 27.7GW of solar, according to the US Energy Information Administration. If all the cars were EVs charging at 7kW, they would need 2,008.3TW – nearly twice the grid capacity. If they charged at 50kW, they would need 14,345TW – 12.8 times the capacity. However, in 2020, the US grid generated 4,007TWh of electricity. Americans drive further on average than Brits – 13,500 miles per year, according to the US Department of Transport’s Federal Highway Administration. That means an American car, if it were an EV, would need 3,857kWh per year, assuming the average efficiency figures above. If all US cars were EVs, they would need a total of 1,106.6TWh, which is 27.6% of what the American grid produced in 2020. US electricity consumption hasn’t shrunk in the same way since 2005 as it has in the UK, but it is clearly not unfeasible for all American cars to be EVs. The US grid could cope too."
So demand will go up, and we need to invest in clean energy to get any environmental benefit out of EV's, but the grid is more than capable, and the spike in demand isn't going to happen overnight, giving time to adapt and upgrade.
thothtp
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Absolutely, hence why I bought a big ass V8 truck as well
It will be a while before we are replacing our tow vehicles, but it will happen. Semi's will be first (Tesla Semi's once they are released will have enough capacity to run a full shift before recharging during mandatory rest breaks.)
brv10
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I believe semis will be last, they will be the only ones allowed to buy diesel in the not to distant future.Now back to Rams, Hemi and Diesel.Absolutely, hence why I bought a big ass V8 truck as well
tyler2you
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ACEd
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Tell that to the people in densely populated areas that have suffered brown-outs already.Common misconception, but that is not how the math works. EV's don't spend all their time charging, nor do they all charge at once.
Source:
Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management
One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine. Here’s how.
"Let’s do the same calculation for the USA. In 2020, there were 286.9 million cars registered in America. In 2020, while the US grid had 1,117.5TW of utility electricity capacity and 27.7GW of solar, according to the US Energy Information Administration. If all the cars were EVs charging at 7kW, they would need 2,008.3TW – nearly twice the grid capacity. If they charged at 50kW, they would need 14,345TW – 12.8 times the capacity. However, in 2020, the US grid generated 4,007TWh of electricity. Americans drive further on average than Brits – 13,500 miles per year, according to the US Department of Transport’s Federal Highway Administration. That means an American car, if it were an EV, would need 3,857kWh per year, assuming the average efficiency figures above. If all US cars were EVs, they would need a total of 1,106.6TWh, which is 27.6% of what the American grid produced in 2020. US electricity consumption hasn’t shrunk in the same way since 2005 as it has in the UK, but it is clearly not unfeasible for all American cars to be EVs. The US grid could cope too."
So demand will go up, and we need to invest in clean energy to get any environmental benefit out of EV's, but the grid is more than capable, and the spike in demand isn't going to happen overnight, giving time to adapt and upgrade.
And as for grid capacity - I doubt many subdivisions have the capacity to deal with even a single EV in every household - could we build that capacity into new subdivisions, yes - but we have enough problems with old power pole mounted lines and outages here already in a 1980's built subdivision and Entergy is not going to foot the bill for an upgrade..
There was an article I saw regarding Ram a few years back saying it’s easier for HD to transition to hydro than to EV.
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gator6
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I watched a program a few years back where a guy had designed a digital roadway. It was built out of thick solar panels that could also act as a monitor to display standard traffic lanes, notify motorists of hazards ahead while moving lanes around the hazards. I want to say this tech was trying to incorporate wireless vehicle charging as well.
This was expensive stuff, but it was said once it was in place the clean energy it would produce would pay for itself in only a few years.
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gator6
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I think it is important to note that even “high efficiency” solar panels today are nowhere near 100% efficient when it comes to capturing solar energy. The use of the electric vehicle has its place in society to cut down the footprint from combustible driven, not eliminate it.
I think everyone can agree that advances in technology move forward daily, and the future is not written. While we can argue that the energy that is needed for the clean vehicle itself isn’t all green, the path to cleaning up our fossil fuel use and eliminating it from our dependence has to start somewhere. It has been noted above that the “horseless carriage” is here to stay, so finding a compromise to its use while lowering emissions overall to zero will be a long road for us and our descendants to continue to develop.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think everyone can agree that advances in technology move forward daily, and the future is not written. While we can argue that the energy that is needed for the clean vehicle itself isn’t all green, the path to cleaning up our fossil fuel use and eliminating it from our dependence has to start somewhere. It has been noted above that the “horseless carriage” is here to stay, so finding a compromise to its use while lowering emissions overall to zero will be a long road for us and our descendants to continue to develop.
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Dasmoetorhead
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Once the gas/diesel vehicle owners succumb to the relentless attack on fossil fuel vehicles and get them into an electric vehicle, the powers to be have you by the short hairs. Then you get your spanky new electric car, and then the guberment will say that the fossil fuel Coal plants will have to shut down due to emissions. Then what, we'll those billionaires will come up with a new plan that they will make billions off of more useless technology that they will force us to use.
I don't have an overall objection to an electric truck. I even would have paid more for one last year when I bought the Ram. This issue, common with expensive technology, is that there is no viable option available for an electric truck that can tow anything of any size. Once that becomes available, and once range and charging options are solved, then people like me will buy it. But for now, the only options are to get a diesel truck, or change your life such that you don't need a tow capable truck at all. Asking people to use new technology that works is fine. Asking people to change their lives because existing technology is causing problems, but making that ask before replacement technology is available, is not fine. I believe we should solve problems to make them go away, not just dictate changes without a solution.
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Dasmoetorhead
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I tow heavy, but not that often anymore. When I do tow however it's usually from TN to Nor-Cal to visit family.
Not sure about pulling into an electric charge station (probably designed for small cars) with my electric dually and 43 ft 5th wheel trailer . Truck stops are a disaster now. Cant imagine the line of trucks waiting to charge up when we go electric. I don't see that happening in my lifetime. No way, no how!
Not sure about pulling into an electric charge station (probably designed for small cars) with my electric dually and 43 ft 5th wheel trailer . Truck stops are a disaster now. Cant imagine the line of trucks waiting to charge up when we go electric. I don't see that happening in my lifetime. No way, no how!
Exactly. And until those issues are solved, diesel is the only option. Trying to make diesel trucks go away just by making it harder or more expensive to run a diesel truck, without first solving these issues, will cause all sorts of problems.
kobra
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Hydrogen fuel cells will be widely tested for long haul trucking. Cummins and Freightliner just announced, and last year GM/Navistar announced a pilot scheduled for this year.
There are already some hydrogen fuel stations up and running in California. Electric does not always equal battery.
Agree that we will not see these solutions in the short term, but in the mid term there are some interesting options coming along.
Brad
There are already some hydrogen fuel stations up and running in California. Electric does not always equal battery.
Agree that we will not see these solutions in the short term, but in the mid term there are some interesting options coming along.
Brad
OldJeepsNewTrucks
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Coincidentally this is the solution if someone thinks that's electric cars are a pathway to government control. Get a horse!I think that's what horse owners would have said about gas vehicles a hundred years ago
Brad
Nick
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People used horses for quite a while until Ford built a reliable vehicle for the masses . The Model T . That has not happened yet and the technology is not there yet . No rare earth mines in this country . China said they will not destroy their economy at the alter of the green . We are hell bent on doing it !I think that's what horse owners would have said about gas vehicles a hundred years ago
Brad
kobra
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Good points; mass adoption is not here yet.
However, as to the comments on rare earth mines, 2 thoughts...
First is that I think there is a rare earth mine in California and several more deposits being looked at. The US actually has some very large deposits of lithium and other rare earth minerals.
Second is that everyone continues to focus on batteries - especially our current crop of lithium variants with their needs for rare earth minerals - as the only way to power EVs. However, there are a lot of other technologies being developed, such as aluminum ion batteries (aluminum being one of the most abundant minerals). Or, as I've repeatedly reminded folks on this forum for a couple years now, hydrogen fuel cells are rapidly coming to the forefront as a technology to replace diesel (ie, when you really need to move significant loads). And, that's just a couple of the many technologies being developed that will not require rare earth minerals.
Of course, the multi-trillion dollar question is as you suggested ... how long until we have the "model T" of EVs? Tesla would sure like to claim they are it, and we are seeing more and more of them out in our rural prairie area, despite us being in oil and gas country. I'm guessing that mass adoption may be sooner than we think. But, I could be completely wrong also
Brad
Poolmonkey
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…how big would an Interstate electric truck stop have to be? What would the startup cost be for a piece of land and the amenities required to make a decent electric charge facility in Podunk, manageable for a Mom & Pop?
We have suffered The EPA cracking down on small stations and purveyors of fuel here over the last decades…has gotten to the point where I haul 15 gas cans just to hunt my favorite deer spots. Signs that say ”90 Miles to Fuel” plus the vast dirt it takes to get to those signs…electric will never be practical for folks that live in those far-flungs or our deer hunts, I believe that is part of the electric impetus. Anti-freedom and the concentration of humanity that provides easier control.
We have suffered The EPA cracking down on small stations and purveyors of fuel here over the last decades…has gotten to the point where I haul 15 gas cans just to hunt my favorite deer spots. Signs that say ”90 Miles to Fuel” plus the vast dirt it takes to get to those signs…electric will never be practical for folks that live in those far-flungs or our deer hunts, I believe that is part of the electric impetus. Anti-freedom and the concentration of humanity that provides easier control.