New Owner Needs Fiver Advice

[xjohnson]

Just bough a 2019 2500 HD 6.7 turbo diesel SB. So far so good with my first diesel truck. We are upgrading from our TT, and in the market for a 5th wheel toy hauler. It has been hard to get the right perspective on what I can/cannot tow. I'm especially frustrated that most of the models I like have a heavier hitch weight than my available payload, which is just under 2200#. Towing capacity is rated just under 19K#, so that doesn't seem to be the issue.

Any feedback on payload vs hitch weight would be appreciated.

 

[RLange]

Just bough a 2019 2500 HD 6.7 turbo diesel SB. So far so good with my first diesel truck. We are upgrading from our TT, and in the market for a 5th wheel toy hauler. It has been hard to get the right perspective on what I can/cannot tow. I'm especially frustrated that most of the models I like have a heavier hitch weight than my available payload, which is just under 2200#. Towing capacity is rated just under 19K#, so that doesn't seem to be the issue.

Any feedback on payload vs hitch weight would be appreciated.

I say watch this video he does a real good job explaining all the weight issues.

The reason why I didn't buy a 6.7 L diesel was the $9000.00 and I needed the 900# of payload it took away. My truck has a payload of 2917# If you have a 6' 4" box you will need a slider hitch. My hitch weighs 310# with the Dodge prep bracket 89# for total of 399# before I put anything in the truck. My Reflection 29RS has a dry pin weight of 1538# but could go 2000# so that leaves 600# for me and my wife and firewood or stuff. I hope this helps.

 

[oaklandopen]

Unfortunately, because you got the diesel in a 2500 (for the most part) your payload is severely diminished. This won't help with a 5th wheel and especially not a toy hauler. Idk what kind of size you're looking for, and I'm sure there are some ultra lightweight ones out there, but that combination isn't great

But like RLange said you'll need a slider. I had a manual one for my 12 3500 SB and worked out just fine, although you have to be more mindful of the steps

Ive also found that campers, in general, are getting heavier. Sort of keeps in line with the ever- increasing tow ratings of trucks as their models come out. So would an older model be in the picture?

 

[Grunt4Life]

Was having similar issue back in 2017 and went with a 3500 6.4 hemi. We were towing a Montana 3911FB with a GVWR of 16K. Our normal load was around 14,400 with a pin weight of 2800+. It pulled it fine but wife couldn't take the high RPM's going up hills or acceleration from dead stop, not to mention all the stops at the gas station.

3 years down the road the wife decided she wanted a new floor plan and her choice required a new truck GVWR of the 5th is 19K with an estimated pin weight of 3200-3500lbs. It didn't matter how I did the math, was left with no choice but to get a DWR diesel. I'm sure someone will jump in and tell you that a single can do it... to that I say to each their own

 

[xjohnson]

I say watch this video he does a real good job explaining all the weight issues.

The reason why I didn't buy a 6.7 L diesel was the $9000.00 and I needed the 900# of payload it took away. My truck has a payload of 2917# If you have a 6' 4" box you will need a slider hitch. My hitch weighs 310# with the Dodge prep bracket 89# for total of 396# before I put anything in the truck. My Reflection 29RS has a dry pin weight of 1538# but could go 2000# so that leaves 600# for me and my wife and firewood or stuff. I hope this helps.

This was a good video, and very helpful. Thank you for sharing. I downloaded his spreadsheet, and it's very helpful in evaluating 5th wheel options. Also, I took my truck to a scale today - that was helpful as well. The truck weighed about 60# more than the shipping weight on the window sticker.

 

[xjohnson]

Unfortunately, because you got the diesel in a 2500 (for the most part) your payload is severely diminished. This won't help with a 5th wheel and especially not a toy hauler. Idk what kind of size you're looking for, and I'm sure there are some ultra lightweight ones out there, but that combination isn't great

But like RLange said you'll need a slider. I had a manual one for my 12 3500 SB and worked out just fine, although you have to be more mindful of the steps

Ive also found that campers, in general, are getting heavier. Sort of keeps in line with the ever- increasing tow ratings of trucks as their models come out. So would an older model be in the picture?

Yep, I'm in the market for a slider as well

Was having similar issue back in 2017 and went with a 3500 6.4 hemi. We were towing a Montana 3911FB with a GVWR of 16K. Our normal load was around 14,400 with a pin weight of 2800+. It pulled it fine but wife couldn't take the high RPM's going up hills or acceleration from dead stop, not to mention all the stops at the gas station.

3 years down the road the wife decided she wanted a new floor plan and her choice required a new truck GVWR of the 5th is 19K with an estimated pin weight of 3200-3500lbs. It didn't matter how I did the math, was left with no choice but to get a DWR diesel. I'm sure someone will jump in and tell you that a single can do it... to that I say to each their own

Thanks Sarge. I did plenty of handwringing before buying the 2500. I was super close to the 3500 DRW.

 

[RiverRunner16]

Was having similar issue back in 2017 and went with a 3500 6.4 hemi. We were towing a Montana 3911FB with a GVWR of 16K. Our normal load was around 14,400 with a pin weight of 2800+. It pulled it fine but wife couldn't take the high RPM's going up hills or acceleration from dead stop, not to mention all the stops at the gas station.

3 years down the road the wife decided she wanted a new floor plan and her choice required a new truck GVWR of the 5th is 19K with an estimated pin weight of 3200-3500lbs. It didn't matter how I did the math, was left with no choice but to get a DWR diesel. I'm sure someone will jump in and tell you that a single can do it... to that I say to each their own

I agree...I used to deliver RV's part time, I would not pull much of a fifth wheel or haul a bigger truck camper with out a Dually.

We have sold our fifth wheel camper and just a have pop-up truck camper and a boat, but still went with a 3500 albeit SRW for the new rig, we do alot camping in the mountains in late fall and think
a SRW does better in the snow.

 

[RLange]

This was a good video, and very helpful. Thank you for sharing. I downloaded his spreadsheet, and it's very helpful in evaluating 5th wheel options. Also, I took my truck to a scale today - that was helpful as well. The truck weighed about 60# more than the shipping weight on the window sticker.

I plan to take my truck and 5th wheel to a cat scale when it warms up here in Michigan to get the true numbers.

 

[DevilDodge]

Download the CAT app. Makes things alot easier.

Anxious to see the results.

 

[Wileykid]

If you want a toy hauler with a 2500, best bet will be a bumper pull. Your truck will be able to pull one, depending on its weight. That is what happened to me (2500 diesel), and finally after some years recently upgraded to a 3500.

 

[MEZZ2006]

Yep, I'm in the market for a slider as well

You don't neccessarily need a slider. Most new fifth wheel front caps are designed so that a slider is most likely not needed. My reccomendation is to look at the Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection. Myself and some others on this forum are running this hitch. It is awesome. I love mine. No need for a slider, it's quiet, and easy enough for anyone to move.

 

[xjohnson]

You don't neccessarily need a slider. Most new fifth wheel front caps are designed so that a slider is most likely not needed. My reccomendation is to look at the Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection. Myself and some others on this forum are running this hitch. It is awesome. I love mine. No need for a slider, it's quiet, and easy enough for anyone to move.

the ability to move it is compelling - I've got a screwed up back. I was concerned about the fact that it's aluminum vs a heavy duty steel rig...

 

[woody284]

I really like my BW Companion hitch slider. The major dislike is its weight. I use a tractor and extra set of hands to load and unload it. I cannot move it by myself. There are advantages to fifth wheel and to goosenecks. Since your buying a new rig if it was me I would be researching hitches, trailers and everything else day and night. I have never been in your shoes and have always been on the flip side trying to make the truck meet my needs and the camper is extra. I only use my slider when backing into our spot at the campground. I probably would not have too but since I have it I use it. It’s never been an issue when just towing.

 

[Lary0071]

Xjohnson, What is the payload on your Cummins 2500? When I was looking in late November I was originally going to go with a 2500 Cummins but I was opening drivers doors and looking at the yellow payload rating and noticed really fast that most were in the 2000-2300 area while my Ford F-150 is almost 1700. I kind of wanted that added MPG because the truck is not my daily driver and is used primarily for towing my equipment and camper, and my old Ram 1500 5.7L was getting around 7MPG towing under 10K lbs. I thought that the 13-ish MPG I was seeing folks claim would be a nice change since we are planning a trip this year with the camper to Kissimmee Florida and another out to the mid west from Pittsburgh, plus my normal regional towing. But the diesel payload penalty and the up-charge made me do some calculating and I could not make it work out in my head.

I ended up at a 2500 gasser to have the 2900 lb payload, and I keep seeing folks claim that they see 9-10 MPG with this gasser and 8 speed while pulling a camper. If it is true, I think I'll be happy. But I am doubtful at the moment since my 1500/5.7L/8 speed was getting 15-16 MPG empty and 7 towing and I am seeing a rock steady 12.5 mpg empty with this 2500. I guess that even if the thing still gives me 7 MPG, at least I have the 2900+ payload and much heavier built truck.

The 3/4 ton diesel thing is super frustrating. You think that going from a half ton to a diesel 3/4 ton would be a major step up, but it really is not much of a step up and yet has a huge cost to buy. I think that the manufactures should bolster the rear suspension on the diesel models and rate them for the 3K lb area payload and keep the max towed item rating at the 14.5K lb area.... make them equally capable as the gas version and then the upcharge would be for the added power and fuel economy without that payload limitation.

The whole experience was frustrating for me since I went into the purchase process expecting one thing and learned that it was not as expected. And then there was the sales folks who mostly had no idea what I was talking about! They would open a sales literature book and show me that a 2500 has some huge payload number on a chart, then I would go look at the inventory and show them the elusive yellow door jam sticker. Most of them had never noticed that sticker, and some felt that it was not something that I should be considering anyways because they sale 2500 trucks all the time to people to tow big and heavy campers. I wish that they never placed that sticker so that I could go back to the old days when I did not know about these ratings!

I was also looking at on stock 2019 inventory to use the employee pricing promotion, and around me the 3500 models were scarce at best and almost everything I found was stripped bare tradesmen models and a couple high dollar up-optioned Laramie models. I wanted a nice in between up-optioned Bighorn, and that was like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I ended up finding the 2500/Bighorn/up-optioned 6.4 gasser that I bought, so I jumped at it.

I spent almost the entire month of November calling around and driving around to look at trucks. It was a frustration for sure.

 

[RLange]

You don't neccessarily need a slider. Most new fifth wheel front caps are designed so that a slider is most likely not needed. My reccomendation is to look at the Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection. Myself and some others on this forum are running this hitch. It is awesome. I love mine. No need for a slider, it's quiet, and easy enough for anyone to move.

You are right in way that some 5th wheels don't need a slide hitch with a 6.4 box. I have a friend that has a momentum toy hauler and a 3500 DRW he didn't have a slider and hit he can. The nose of those are pretty rounded. They might welgh more but the Demco autoslide series is mount it and forget about setup. It slide automatically and you never have to get out your truck or worry about hitting it.
My hitch weighs more because it has longer travel in the slide, for the 5.8 box o a 1500. The 18K model is 50# or so lighter because it only travels 14" not 22".

 

[Grunt4Life]

the ability to move it is compelling - I've got a screwed up back. I was concerned about the fact that it's aluminum vs a heavy duty steel rig...

I currently use the Anderson Hitch and it has served me well. However got tired of removing it every time I needed the bed space. Granted it only takes about 4-5 minutes to remove, it's when I don't know the bed space is needed and I don't have my tools OR simply removing the hitch isn't enough (i.e. it's still in the back of the truck just pushed to the side or something). So I'm moving on to the Gen-Y Hitch. Now all I'll have to do is remove the ball! It can tow up to 30K and a pin weight up to 5.5K

 

[MEZZ2006]

the ability to move it is compelling - I've got a screwed up back. I was concerned about the fact that it's aluminum vs a heavy duty steel rig...

The Andersen Ultimate is rated at 24k lb Tow rating, and 4,500lb pin weight, way more weight than a 2500 should ever see. I have the "Toolbox" version and it gives ~4 more inches of bed space between the cab and hitch frame for a tool box or aux fuel tank.
I had considered the Reese Goosebox, very similar to the GenY Grunt4Life posted, but my current fifth wheel is a little older, so there isn't one made for replacing my pinbox.

 

[Wileykid]

The 3/4 ton diesel thing is super frustrating. You think that going from a half ton to a diesel 3/4 ton would be a major step up, but it really is not much of a step up and yet has a huge cost to buy. I think that the manufactures should bolster the rear suspension on the diesel models and rate them for the 3K lb area payload and keep the max towed item rating at the 14.5K lb area.... make them equally capable as the gas version and then the upcharge would be for the added power and fuel economy without that payload limitation.

The 3/4 ton diesel is a step up as far as pulling ability, but a step down on weight capability due to the weight of the engine, but that is changing now. Chevy has upped the weight of its 3/4 ton up to 11,350 (on some models) from the usual 10,000 lbs everyone else has. I saw a 2020 Chevy 3/4 diesel with everything including the kitchen sink, and the weight tag showed a little over 3,000 lb payload. I would expect RAM and Ford will be following shortly.

The truck war is great.

 

[Marshfly]

Another vote for the Anderson. I love mine. Quiet and smooth. And It stays with my camper so is never in the way when i need my bed.

 

[Marshfly]

The 3/4 ton diesel is a step up as far as pulling ability, but a step down on weight capability due to the weight of the engine, but that is changing now. Chevy has upped the weight of its 3/4 ton up to 11,350 (on some models) from the usual 10,000 lbs everyone else has. I saw a 2020 Chevy 3/4 diesel with everything including the kitchen sink, and the weight tag showed a little over 3,000 lb payload. I would expect RAM and Ford will be following shortly.

The truck war is great.

It will be interesting to see what happens once a lot of those new Chevy and Ford 2500 get delivered in states that have significantly higher registration and taxes for GVWRs of over 10k. My state isn't one of those but there are quite a few.

A lot of guys bought 2500s over 3500s just for that reason. Now they don't even have the option.