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HO 3.73 vs 4.1?

timelinex

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I posted elsewhere but was recpmmended to post here. I'm about to buy a DRW HO ram 3500 to replace my SRW SO 3500. I've finally found a 22 that mostly fits the bill, but then I realized the seller ordered it with 3.73 gearing and not 4.1.

I have trouble getting about 50 when pulling my 20k 5th wheel up our steeeeep hills. I was hoping the HO would help with that. Is the 3
73 gonna make it an issue or should I have no problem atleast reaching 65 with the HO, even with 3.73 gearing?

I saw someone mention that the biggest advantage in 4.1 gears is for 1st gear....I've never had an issue with starts or at low speeds though and that's with even the SO.

What's the disadvantages of 4.1, why doesn't everyone get them?

Thanks!
 
higher revs are not needed so 3.73 is fine besides idk why everyones always so horny to race up hills its less stress and easier on the truck to just take your time 50 is not slow when you have that kind of weight behind you. Hell 60 is usually plenty with a heavy trailer in tow….
 
they're just a bit higher rpm at speed, and from what your describing, the h.o. isn't going to be earth moving different from the s.o.

a steep grade is a steep grade. especially when it has five e's
 
My son's 22 HO has 4.10's and he loves them, but he pulls a heavy 43' 5th wheel
Maybe im missing something but I don't see how it would really help. I pull basically the heavist claas of 5th wheel (20k gvwr) and never have issues starting. I'm sure it will struggle if I want to rip off the line, but you wouldn't do that anyways unless you want to arrive with everything jumbled inside or breaking apart!
 
Maybe im missing something but I don't see how it would really help. I pull basically the heavist claas of 5th wheel (20k gvwr) and never have issues starting. I'm sure it will struggle if I want to rip off the line, but you wouldn't do that anyways unless you want to arrive with everything jumbled inside or breaking apart!
I went with the 4.10 in our 2022. I disagree with the 1st gear thing. I think the only real difference is in the higher gears. You’re running at a bit higher RPM - a bit less lugging with a heavy load and it won’t be downshifting as often. A 3.73 will probably use a bit less fuel with low or no load, but IMO not a big enough difference to offset the benefit.
 
Maybe im missing something but I don't see how it would really help. I pull basically the heavist claas of 5th wheel (20k gvwr) and never have issues starting. I'm sure it will struggle if I want to rip off the line, but you wouldn't do that anyways unless you want to arrive with everything jumbled inside or breaking apart!
It does not help nearly as much as people think my 01 3500 had 4.10s it was awful so i swapped in 3.73 gears and it was so much better all around and i have towed 30k with it yes i know its not apples to apples but really its the same principal just different power plant
 
have a 22 3500 drw ho with 410 wish i would have got 373. pulling 18000 lb 5th wheel can hold 60 up a 6% grade with no problem. with 373 gears it would most likely down shift 1 more gear but still hold the speed. i wouldn't be afraid of it. in my old truck 2006 had 373 i changed to 410 there is a difference of about 200-250 rpm at 65 mph. 1-2 mpg difference empty or loaded. it pulled better loaded but the ho 6.7 makes up for it
 
I’ve owned two DRW’s with the HO. Both were 3.73. A 2017 and my current 2022. At no point have I ever encountered a scenario where I wished I had ordered the 4.10. Both trucks have been more than capable of pulling anything I put in front of them. The 3.73 is a much nicer cruising gear when empty too.

Please be aware: if you’re buying a 2022 HO truck, you want to make sure that the truck has either:

1. Been identified under customer satisfaction notice 71A for the Aisin transmission K1 snap ring failure, and has been previously repaired

Or

2. Has not been identified as falling under the scope of CSN-71A

In either case, just a word of advice, the 2022 Aisin trucks have an increased chance of snap ring failure even if Ram does not list a particular vin under the recall.
 
I posted elsewhere but was recpmmended to post here. I'm about to buy a DRW HO ram 3500 to replace my SRW SO 3500. I've finally found a 22 that mostly fits the bill, but then I realized the seller ordered it with 3.73 gearing and not 4.1.

I have trouble getting about 50 when pulling my 20k 5th wheel up our steeeeep hills. I was hoping the HO would help with that. Is the 3
73 gonna make it an issue or should I have no problem atleast reaching 65 with the HO, even with 3.73 gearing?

I saw someone mention that the biggest advantage in 4.1 gears is for 1st gear....I've never had an issue with starts or at low speeds though and that's with even the SO.

What's the disadvantages of 4.1, why doesn't everyone get them?

Thanks!


Good to see you reposted here from the 1500 forum!

As I said there, going from the SO to the HO will make a far bigger difference, than either engine going from 3.73 to 4.10. Your truck will never have more power than when its in first gear (unless there is some severe torque management going on, but you get the idea).

If you don't have any concerns about power in first, the stronger gear ratio isn't going to help you at 50 mph, so the gear ratio is a pointless "upgrade", but the SO to HO could very well help you better up the steep hills at 50 mph.
 
If you don't have any concerns about power in first, the stronger gear ratio isn't going to help you at 50 mph, so the gear ratio is a pointless "upgrade"
So if there is no benefit to the 4.10 over the 3.73, tell me why a 3.73 is better than a 3.39? Why would a 3.39 be better than a 3.08? Why not just get a 1.0? The same logic applies at all of these comparisons. Where does a higher gear ratio make sense and why, and what are your qualifications or research to make that distinction? Your experience doesn’t count because that is YOUR experience and others’ will be different depending on how they use their truck.

Thousands of heavy duty truck buyers pick the 4.10. Are they all making a mistake? If you are buying an HD truck for use mostly as a daily driver, with occasional heavy towing, or use in mostly flat country, get a 3.73. If you are buying it to tow a heavy trailer in mountainous terrain, you will be happier with a 4.10. With a 3.73, you will spend a lot more time in 5th gear, or 4th gear, and be RPM restricted on speed going up long grades. Your truck will do a lot more shifting.

This ”first gear” only thing doesn’t make sense. A 4.10 provides 10% more power (and yes, 10% higher RPM) in any gear. It gives a different RPM, gear position, and power result across the entire performance range. This will be beneficial to some but not to others, based on the use profile.

The fuel economy issue is also not cut and dried. It takes a certain amount of energy to move a given load over a given distance. Running your engine at the peak efficiency point, for a given use profile, will provide the best fuel economy. The engineers at truck companies aren’t idiots. They offer higher ratio differentials for a reason - they are a better choice for some users. They have picked these ratios as the best compromises for they way customers use their trucks. They are not random choices.
 
So if there is no benefit to the 4.10 over the 3.73, tell me why a 3.73 is better than a 3.39? Why would a 3.39 be better than a 3.08? Why not just get a 1.0? The same logic applies at all of these comparisons. Where does a higher gear ratio make sense and why, and what are your qualifications or research to make that distinction? Your experience doesn’t count because that is YOUR experience and others’ will be different depending on how they use their truck.

Thousands of heavy duty truck buyers pick the 4.10. Are they all making a mistake? If you are buying an HD truck for use mostly as a daily driver, with occasional heavy towing, or use in mostly flat country, get a 3.73. If you are buying it to tow a heavy trailer in mountainous terrain, you will be happier with a 4.10. With a 3.73, you will spend a lot more time in 5th gear, or 4th gear, and be RPM restricted on speed going up long grades. Your truck will do a lot more shifting.

This ”first gear” only thing doesn’t make sense. A 4.10 provides 10% more power (and yes, 10% higher RPM) in any gear. It gives a different RPM, gear position, and power result across the entire performance range. This will be beneficial to some but not to others, based on the use profile.

The fuel economy issue is also not cut and dried. It takes a certain amount of energy to move a given load over a given distance. Running your engine at the peak efficiency point, for a given use profile, will provide the best fuel economy. The engineers at truck companies aren’t idiots. They offer higher ratio differentials for a reason - they are a better choice for some users. They have picked these ratios as the best compromises for they way customers use their trucks. They are not random choices.

I'm a firm believer in gearing, and would have gotten 4.10's in my SRW if I could have. For me it's the low speed towing that I want the lower gears on, you can't downshift past 1st and I spend a fair amount of time slow enough to be towing in 1st and unlocked in 2nd. The truck doesn't lack for power, but I'd like to have the gearing for a cooler transmission and earlier locking of the torque converter.

The difference in response at partial throttle between my '18 HO with 3.42's and '22 HO with 3.73's is huge and at partial power that's not the increased torque rating of the '22 it's the added mechanical advantage of the 9% lower gears.

Just to point out the gearing doesn't increase power it increases torque. There is more power available thru increased rpms, but the torque is what is multiplied and increased. On that same note the engine can make less torque to complete the same work at the same speed as with taller gears, thou it does still need to produce the same horsepower.
 
I'm a firm believer in gearing, and would have gotten 4.10's in my SRW if I could have. For me it's the low speed towing that I want the lower gears on, you can't downshift past 1st and I spend a fair amount of time slow enough to be towing in 1st and unlocked in 2nd. The truck doesn't lack for power, but I'd like to have the gearing for a cooler transmission and earlier locking of the torque converter.

The difference in response at partial throttle between my '18 HO with 3.42's and '22 HO with 3.73's is huge and at partial power that's not the increased torque rating of the '22 it's the added mechanical advantage of the 9% lower gears.

Just to point out the gearing doesn't increase power it increases torque. There is more power available thru increased rpms, but the torque is what is multiplied and increased. On that same note the engine can make less torque to complete the same work at the same speed as with taller gears, thou it does still need to produce the same horsepower.


100% on point. The mechanical advantage of deeper gearing is immediately noticeable when trying to get a heavy load moving from a stop. It is undeniable.

My truck is used primarily as a tow rig or weekend truck. I do not DD it.

Because of those reasons, I opted to get the most capable truck in this platform which was a DRW with HO and 4.10's. Any MPG difference is negligible as the HO harms MPG vs SO more than the 4.10 vs 3.73 choice.

FWIW, my 5er is only 14k lbs loaded down, but the truck will do 70mph up a 6% grade with ease with that trailer connected. It's an absolute beast of a tow'r.
 
So if there is no benefit to the 4.10 over the 3.73, tell me why a 3.73 is better than a 3.39? Why would a 3.39 be better than a 3.08? Why not just get a 1.0? The same logic applies at all of these comparisons. Where does a higher gear ratio make sense and why, and what are your qualifications or research to make that distinction? Your experience doesn’t count because that is YOUR experience and others’ will be different depending on how they use their truck.

Thousands of heavy duty truck buyers pick the 4.10. Are they all making a mistake? If you are buying an HD truck for use mostly as a daily driver, with occasional heavy towing, or use in mostly flat country, get a 3.73. If you are buying it to tow a heavy trailer in mountainous terrain, you will be happier with a 4.10. With a 3.73, you will spend a lot more time in 5th gear, or 4th gear, and be RPM restricted on speed going up long grades. Your truck will do a lot more shifting.

This ”first gear” only thing doesn’t make sense. A 4.10 provides 10% more power (and yes, 10% higher RPM) in any gear. It gives a different RPM, gear position, and power result across the entire performance range. This will be beneficial to some but not to others, based on the use profile.

The fuel economy issue is also not cut and dried. It takes a certain amount of energy to move a given load over a given distance. Running your engine at the peak efficiency point, for a given use profile, will provide the best fuel economy. The engineers at truck companies aren’t idiots. They offer higher ratio differentials for a reason - they are a better choice for some users. They have picked these ratios as the best compromises for they way customers use their trucks. They are not random choices.

The thing about extreme contrasts to disprove a point, is that it doesn't work when the point doesn't have extreme contrasts. We're talking 3.73 vs 4.10, and that difference is insignificant. I didn't say they'll pull equally hard off the line, because the 4.10 will pull harder from a dead stop.

But at 50 mph, the gear in your axle is completely irrelevant. You can get more torque two ways, bumping up your rear axle ratio or just downshifting a gear in your transmission. That's literally its job.

To get the final gear ratio, you multiply your transmission gear by the rear axle ratio. Doesn't matter if you increase the rear axle to increase your final gear ratio, OR, downshift the transmission to increase your final gear ratio.

Yes the rear axle provides more torque across each transmission gear, but you're missing the flipside of that coin which is, you're no longer necessarily using the same transmission gear at the same time in both trucks. If the 3.73 downshifts, it will likely be providing more torque than the 4.10 at the previous gear (haven't done the math on this specific case, but we've argued this on the 1500 forums extensively with the 3.21 vs 3.92)

The only place the transmission can't help you out is when both trucks are in first. At that point, the higher axle ratio always wins.

But there is no rule that says both trucks have to be in the same transmission gear at the same time. In fact, a lot of times they'll be in different gears (the 3.73 will likely be in a lower transmission gear vs the 4.10 a lot of the time.)

You can't bump up the rear axle ratio without also affecting what gear the transmission uses. It's that simple. In first gear, the 4.10 hits redline quicker so it needs to upshift before the 3.73 does, and then loses torque vs the 3.37 still cruising in first.
 
A couple of years ago, my buddy with a 2018 HO dually and I pulled our fifth wheels 1800 miles. His was a 3.73. He asked me how I could walk away from him any time he pulled onto the interstate. My fifth wheel was 6000 pounds heavier. Part of the equation was his HO had a bit less power but part of that should have been taken into account by his lesser weight. Anyway I attributed the performance difference primarily to the 4.10 in my truck. However when all was said and one, we both arrived at our destination at the same time. His mileage was a bit better. Either ratio will get the job done.
 
Test drove both, 3.73 was more pleasant especially gears 1-2 is already jerky enough with aisin
 
There is so much talk about power off the line here. Are you guys really having trouble getting going? Are you really trying to rip off the line with 20k lb behind you? Sounds like a great way to mess up the 5er and everything in it!

I've never towed anything heavier than 20klb so is that just why I'm not complaining about power off the line?
 
With a DRW you may be less likely to go big on tires than the SRW guys. In that case, it probably doesn't matter as much for your use case. The HO will more than offset the need for 4.10's and 3.73 despite all other claims, will net you slightly better mileage (empty) with the HO.

I only pull 16K but run slightly larger tires and have never wanted for more speed up the big passes here in Colorado & NM. I can rip up Raton pass in either direction as fast as I dare if there's no traffic. Wolf Creek pass wasn't any trouble either. If I was on 37's, I'd want the 4.10's. If I was pulling 25K, probably.

As to "off the line" power. I can't put the coals to mine for fear of ripping the pinbox frame off the RV, considering the boat's also in tow back there tugging the other end of the RV frame. The 1-2 shift is too violent if I stay in it too long.

That said, there's a reason they offer 4.44 and 4.88 in the CC trucks. Granted they are essentially "SO" performance but those are big levers that can pull big loads. Gearing does make a difference to the SAE standard they use to rate truck tow capacity.

Thing is, with the HO you get the 12" ring gear set as stated, so there's always the option to replace with OE/AAM gearsets if you find they're not doing the job.
 
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