Hemi tick solved?

[Lord muta]

OK, so I have a 2022 power wagon. I checked all the forms everywhere I could look haven’t seen the subject come up anywhere else. I’ve been watching on YouTube different content creators saying they solved the hemi tick by changing their oil to 5W-30. Has anyone else tried this out? I’m very tempted to start using 5W-30 full synthetic to ensure longevity of my 6.4. I only have the normal startup ticking noise. However, over time eventually, it will beat that rocker to death. Looking for pros and cons of going to 5W-30 on my rig I currently change oil every 5K using 0W-40. I know many are going to say the engine was designed to Ron on zero W-4. I am skeptical because these engines were designed over 20 years ago with an update somewhere around 2008 to 2014 which was minor and they keep going to the lighter watery oils For better fuel economy, and EPA ratings just my humble opinion.

Thanks in advance for your views and opinion.

Muta

 

[Tim_G]

I hope you find a good answer. I can tell you that in my 2024 Rebel, I use Mobil1 Euro 0w-40 and have no hemi-tick that I can hear at any temp or driving condition. And believe me, I'm listening hard for it lol!

 

[silver billet]

All those guys are referring to the 5.7 which calls for a 0w-20 or 5w-20, your 6.4 calls for a 0w-40 so I'd be very careful about dropping viscosity to a 30 grade.

It's not just that simple either, there are thin 40 grades that shear down into 30 grade over the life of the oil, and there are strong 30 grades which don't shear.

As far as the tick goes, define "tick". Do you have the broken manifolds (exhaust leak), do you have the lifter bleed down (a nasty rattle on startup only for a few seconds and then instantly gone), or do you have a tick that is always there on a hot idle (lifter/cam issues).

Some guys have run Redline 5w-30 and got rid of or reduced their lifter tick, but again that was in a 5.7. However Redline (specifically) is a pretty thick oil so you could be safe running that in a 6.4. It has a really good HT/HS as well.

HDRams isn't the place for this discussion to be honest, very little talk about that here, maybe most are running cummins. You could try on bitog, or ramforums.com (RF is where the bulk of the discussion is.

 

[joshuaeb09]

When I had Hemi's - I ran Redline 5w30 in the 5.7 and Redline 5w40 in the 6.4. If wasn't running redline in the 5.7 I was running 0w40 Castrol Edge Euro Car. Now my 6.4 was in a Challenger, but it got run pretty hard regularly. Anything else would sheer down pretty quickly based on oil testing, but again she got run pretty hard in the Texas heat so that was tough on the oil. RF has tons of threads on this matter with oil analysis from both 5.7 and 6.4 guys. At the end of the day lubrication can only help so much due to how the cam's are lubed in the Hemi design. You really want to avoid idling them - Ask any shop that works on Hemi's in cop cars - All that idling just kills em.

 

[silver billet]

When I had Hemi's - I ran Redline 5w30 in the 5.7 and Redline 5w40 in the 6.4. If wasn't running redline in the 5.7 I was running 0w40 Castrol Edge Euro Car. Now my 6.4 was in a Challenger, but it got run pretty hard regularly. Anything else would sheer down pretty quickly based on oil testing, but again she got run pretty hard in the Texas heat so that was tough on the oil. RF has tons of threads on this matter with oil analysis from both 5.7 and 6.4 guys. At the end of the day lubrication can only help so much due to how the cam's are lubed in the Hemi design. You really want to avoid idling them - Ask any shop that works on Hemi's in cop cars - All that idling just kills em.

It's not the idling per se, it's "engine runtime" whether that be city driving, highway driving, or just idling. Some cams or lifters are apparently not hardened enough and when the engine is running, it's just a matter of time though I believe a better oil can play a role in extending the life somewhat.

 

[joshuaeb09]

It's not the idling per se, it's "engine runtime" whether that be city driving, highway driving, or just idling. Some cams or lifters are apparently not hardened enough and when the engine is running, it's just a matter of time though I believe a better oil can play a role in extending the life somewhat.

MMX has a good write up on this. Its a two part problem - namely both how the valvetrain is lubed and the lifters themselves. Idling 1000% exacerbates the issue - If you go by engine hours and compare one that's been mostly driven vs say a cop car that's moslty idled - The cop car is having a failure much sooner.

Gen3 HEMI Lifter Failure Tech Article by MMX

Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, Jeep HEMI Engine Performance Parts

www.modernmusclextreme.com

 

[Lord muta]

All those guys are referring to the 5.7 which calls for a 0w-20 or 5w-20, your 6.4 calls for a 0w-40 so I'd be very careful about dropping viscosity to a 30 grade.

It's not just that simple either, there are thin 40 grades that shear down into 30 grade over the life of the oil, and there are strong 30 grades which don't shear.

As far as the tick goes, define "tick". Do you have the broken manifolds (exhaust leak), do you have the lifter bleed down (a nasty rattle on startup only for a few seconds and then instantly gone), or do you have a tick that is always there on a hot idle (lifter/cam issues).

Some guys have run Redline 5w-30 and got rid of or reduced their lifter tick, but again that was in a 5.7. However Redline (specifically) is a pretty thick oil so you could be safe running that in a 6.4. It has a really good HT/HS as well.

HDRams isn't the place for this discussion to be honest, very little talk about that here, maybe most are running cummins. You could try on bitog, or ramforums.com (RF is where the bulk of the discussion is.

Not broken manifold; had that checked out. It's a minor tick on startup, and cold days (arizona 40's) it ticks for upto about 3min. Not on a hot idle, I've been very observant of the noise. It's mostly just annoying and likely not an issue since it goes away 97% of the time within 15sec. or less.

 

[silver billet]

MMX has a good write up on this. Its a two part problem - namely both how the valvetrain is lubed and the lifters themselves. Idling 1000% exacerbates the issue - If you go by engine hours and compare one that's been mostly driven vs say a cop car that's moslty idled - The cop car is having a failure much sooner.

Gen3 HEMI Lifter Failure Tech Article by MMX

Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, Jeep HEMI Engine Performance Parts

www.modernmusclextreme.com

Except we have plenty of reports of guys with almost 2000 idle hours and no lifter failure, and previous to 2009 there was almost 0 lifter failure but the block/cam/oiling did not change in 2009.

MMX is wrong on this. It's a materials issue, not a lubrication issue.

 

[Firebird]

I run Redline 0w40 in my 2023 6.4, and the engine has zero lifter tic at all, the engine is smooth at startup all the time. Even after sitting for several days, there is no noise at startup.

My 2021 Durango RT gets Redline 5w30

 

[609er]

It's not the idling per se, it's "engine runtime" whether that be city driving, highway driving, or just idling. Some cams or lifters are apparently not hardened enough and when the engine is running, it's just a matter of time though I believe a better oil can play a role in extending the life somewhat.

It’s not the cam it is a lifter failure which eats the cam lobe when the roller seizes. I’ve replaced a lot of lifters with the rollers wasted and the cam perfectly fine. Mopar has changed vendors on lifters I don’t know how many times. At one point they would approve the use of aftermarket lifters on a warranty job because they had no supplier of lifters. Does idling accelerate the problem. He’ll yes it does. Most police cars the push rods are not turning and get egg shaped on the ends. That’s from idling. But hats not the sole cause. It’s garbage roller bearings or the roller itself and piss poor oiling to the lifter. These things rap so much after putting new new lifters in you would think you screwed the job up. But ten minutes later it goes away.

 

[silver billet]

It’s not the cam it is a lifter failure which eats the cam lobe when the roller seizes. I’ve replaced a lot of lifters with the rollers wasted and the cam perfectly fine. Mopar has changed vendors on lifters I don’t know how many times. At one point they would approve the use of aftermarket lifters on a warranty job because they had no supplier of lifters. Does idling accelerate the problem. He’ll yes it does. Most police cars the push rods are not turning and get egg shaped on the ends. That’s from idling. But hats not the sole cause. It’s garbage roller bearings or the roller itself and piss poor oiling to the lifter. These things rap so much after putting new new lifters in you would think you screwed the job up. But ten minutes later it goes away.

It's both, there are guys on ramforum who have pulled out their cam which is clearly on the way out but the lifters are surprisingly in perfect condition. Also note that the engineers originally called for a more hardened cam which they cheaped out on in production. The vast majority are fine despite that.

Idling "accelerates" it in the same way that driving your truck does. Idling is not any worse than driving when it comes to lifer failure, it's just how long your engine is running.

 

[609er]

It's both, there are guys on ramforum who have pulled out their cam which is clearly on the way out but the lifters are surprisingly in perfect condition. Also note that the engineers originally called for a more hardened cam which they cheaped out on in production. The vast majority are fine despite that.

Idling "accelerates" it in the same way that driving your truck does. Idling is not any worse than driving when it comes to lifer failure, it's just how long your engine is running.

I’m not gona argue with you. I repair these vehicles on a daily basis. I don’t read forums to get knowledge on these motors. I’m trying to spread knowledge.

 

[silver billet]

I’m not gona argue with you. I repair these vehicles on a daily basis. I don’t read forums to get knowledge on these motors. I’m trying to spread knowledge.

If I had nickle for every time I've seen a technican and mechanic and engineer leaving their opinion on this topic I could stop working lol.

I'm not discounting your experience, but other mechanics have other experiences and stories to tell. I've researched this for 5 years and watched every video, read all the forums threads etc etc. Everybody has an angle, but nobody has a definitive answer because Ram won't say what's going on and they're the only ones that know.

When reports come up that show cam failure without lifter failure and the evidence is there on YT, then I'm not going to discount that evidence just because another mechanic says he's never seen that.

When guys show they have 2000+ idle hours on a truck with over 300k miles and no lifter failure, then I think we can safely say that idling by itself is not the issue.

When cars without MDS (6.4 manual challenger) still get lifter failure, then we can safely assume that MDS and the oiling system is not the reason because those engine use the block off plates and would be getting the additional oil but they still fail.

Most people want to pick one theory as to why something is failing but most likely its a combination of factors. I do believe a materials/QC issue is the main reason though. Cop cars do idle excessively, so that "gives proof" right, but those cars are supposed to be serviced under severe duty cycle which for a car in constant rotation would be like every 3 weeks and we all know those cars aren't serviced that often and they're getting the cheapest oil they can find. Lots of stuff like this going on.

 

[BJD4204]

OK, so I have a 2022 power wagon. I checked all the forms everywhere I could look haven’t seen the subject come up anywhere else. I’ve been watching on YouTube different content creators saying they solved the hemi tick by changing their oil to 5W-30. Has anyone else tried this out? I’m very tempted to start using 5W-30 full synthetic to ensure longevity of my 6.4. I only have the normal startup ticking noise. However, over time eventually, it will beat that rocker to death. Looking for pros and cons of going to 5W-30 on my rig I currently change oil every 5K using 0W-40. I know many are going to say the engine was designed to Ron on zero W-4. I am skeptical because these engines were designed over 20 years ago with an update somewhere around 2008 to 2014 which was minor and they keep going to the lighter watery oils For better fuel economy, and EPA ratings just my humble opinion.

Thanks in advance for your views and opinion.

Muta

The cold start tick has nothing to do with the “hemi tick” the noise at start up comes from the sodium filled exhaust valves and is a normal sound at startup.

Your truck is fine man. All 6.4 hemi trucks make that sound when it’s cold.

 

[HarryN]

Does running 91 octane help at all ?

 

[jsalbre]

No

 

[GrumpyolMan]

I bought my '24 Bighorn 2500 w/6.4 Hemi "new" from a dealer in Ohio, it had 1500 miles on it. Since I didn't know how those miles were put on I changed the oil and filter as soon as I got it home in Western New York. I'm running Pennzoil 0w-40 with Champ XL filters and changing every 2000 miles until the odometer hits 10k and sending samples into speed diagnostics. The results for the first two are showing high copper wear that's improving but still higher than normal according to Lake Speed jr.. A mechanic friend had suggested I switch to Castrol Edge Euro. 0w40 since that's what he runs in his 3500 tow truck with over 125k on it and no problems. Lake had suggested if the copper wear doesn't improve substantially after the next change to move up to 5w40 but I live up north so I'm hesitant. I have been running 5w20 in my 5.7 Hemi with 98k on it but apparently that's a bad idea in the 6.4.

 

[Units]

I bought my '24 Bighorn 2500 w/6.4 Hemi "new" from a dealer in Ohio, it had 1500 miles on it. Since I didn't know how those miles were put on I changed the oil and filter as soon as I got it home in Western New York. I'm running Pennzoil 0w-40 with Champ XL filters and changing every 2000 miles until the odometer hits 10k and sending samples into speed diagnostics. The results for the first two are showing high copper wear that's improving but still higher than normal according to Lake Speed jr.. A mechanic friend had suggested I switch to Castrol Edge Euro. 0w40 since that's what he runs in his 3500 tow truck with over 125k on it and no problems. Lake had suggested if the copper wear doesn't improve substantially after the next change to move up to 5w40 but I live up north so I'm hesitant. I have been running 5w20 in my 5.7 Hemi with 98k on it but apparently that's a bad idea in the 6.4.

Personally I’d stick with what the owners manual specifies viscosity wise at least until your warranty is up. Brand is up to you, as long as it meets the manufacturer oil standards. I’ve used castrol in other vehicles without issue. I wouldn’t jump to conclusions on the UOA so quick, sounds like you have a fairly new engine and it can take quite a while for the assembly lubes / sealants used in manufacturing the motor to go away, as long as they are trending downwards I wouldn’t worry about it.