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Diesel/Gas justification banter?

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Pressure_welder

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Good day fellas just thought id throw this up for a bit of banter and see where everyones head space is at admist these insane prices for new diesels. Ive been a pretty dedicated diesel guy since 2004 when i bought my first new GMC ext cab LB7 loaded right up, loved that truck if i remember correctly it was 45,000$ out the door. Fast forward 7 trucks and i am now in a 24 limited chassis cab thats a welding rig/family truck. I also love this truck, i paid 105,000$ as a leftover in early 2025. I thought this was alot but hey whatever. Fast forward to 2026.... speaking with my friend who owns a dealership.... i would be so close to 130k to replace this truck with a 2026, call it 123 ish for a laramie. This to me is absurd, because i do not see 130k truck here.

I usually trade every 2.5-3 years, as i put on about 30-35k a year with the business, I dont tow much but i do run around close to max GVWR on the daily, and get an average of about 13.5-14mpg, highway i can see about 16.5-17mpg. Love the cummins even though its de-tuned.

Enter my friend who owns a very large construction company that i do alot of welding for... dozers/hoes/rock trucks you name it. He had a fleet of 2020+ 6.7 powerstroke 3/4 tons that he started to swap out with 3/4 ton 7.3 Godzilla in 2021 due to emissions related issues. Both from our cold winters and idle time. As of now his entire fleet of pickups is now 3/4 ton 7.3's a few of which have 200+ km on them. So i asked him how they were doing and if the change was worth it, he laid out all the numbers and charts for me granted hes a huge business compared to myself. But he said he'll never go back to another emissions equipped diesel truck in the pickup world. The fuel economy advantage of the diesel is almost null when compared to the higher diesel price vs gas, hes seeing roughly 11.7-13 mpg with the godzillas on average, about 7-8 when towing skid steers or mini hoes. With 10 trucks he has yet to see any major engine issues, more driveline related things or ball joints etc. From a business stand point he's saving thousands with going back to gas, as a diesel mechanic he made a good point that sort of hit home. These manufacturers are going backwards with diesels.... while they may be "reliable" in a sense, all the mandatory emissions equipment are making them less reliable long AND short term. The short term being def tank pumps, frozen def tanks that cant unthaw themselves, sensors etc. I dont disagree with this as ive also had my share of def problems in winter, alot have went away since i insulted my def injection line.

I have to say that chat with my buddy, in real world testing for 3+ years sort of opened my eyes a bit.... granted i dont know if id ever see myself in a Ford. But being so die hard diesel for so many years, I feel a bit of a shift in my mind set as to what is becoming justifiable. I am really curious to see if Ram releases a 6.7 cummins gas. I am still really on the fence but my friend certainly spoke alot of truth..... i believe while these diesels are great, i think they are also really flawed with all the emissions equipment both in a reliability sense long and short term. 130,000$ for a cummins or equivilent dually is getting a little out of hand i feel for what we are actually getting. The 10 year warranty is certainly a good incentive but is it worth an additional 13K over a gas powered truck? I really dont know. Curious to see what you guys think, or if any of you have switched back to gas. Certainly pro's and cons to both.
 
When I decided to go with a gas DRW truck to haul my truck camper my friends were giving me a hard time. But I only put a few thousand miles a year on my truck and do a lot of start/stop cycles and short trips when my camper isn't on my truck which is hard on any engine but harder on a diesel, especially an emission equipped one. I didn't need to tow heavy loads, I just needed the rear wheels to handle the weight of a large camper. The maintenance costs are more with a diesel and, where I live, diesel costs $1 per gallon than gas. The numbers and my duty cycle just didn't justify the upfront and maintenance costs for my use case.
 
Yes while a diesel was maybe more of an easier decision its maybe becoming a more seriously considered case by case basis. But yes as of right now diesel is 1.55$ a liter and gas is 1.11$ a liter. So essentially if you take my tank which is 196 liters i am paying 217$ for a tank of gas, and 303.80 for a tank of diesel. If my maths right thats an 86$ difference per tank. The slight better fuel economy from the cummins would chip away at that 86$ though i am sure. As of right now the diesel option costs about 12,000$ in canada vs gas. I will say though, its -47 today and def hasnt frozen up yet! knock on wood. Supposed to be -57 on sunday so well see how she performs on the way to kiddos hockey.
 
If you’re in Canada, there sure is an easy solution to any emissions system issues. I’d be all over that.

Diesels are spendy though, there is no denying it. I definitely didn’t buy mine because it was a sound financial decision.
 
Trash Panda said:
If you’re in Canada, there sure is an easy solution to any emissions system issues. I’d be all over that.

Diesels are spendy though, there is no denying it. I definitely didn’t buy mine because it was a sound financial decision.
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Is it really these days? Wouldn't your powertrain warranty be voided? Once out of warranty I could see it.
 
RKCRLR said:
Is it really these days? Wouldn't your powertrain warranty be voided? Once out of warranty I could see it.
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Yes, it really is that easy.

Of course your power train warranty would be voided, but the warranty period on these truck emissions systems are so much shorter than the powertrain policy. There is no way I’m paying cash to put those parts back on the truck after I experience problems.

To each their own, I guess.
 
Yea i seriously considered deleting my 22 5500 during my def issues. Although after the service manager showed me an invoice for an engine replacement it changed my mind pretty quick. It also becomes an issue during annual safeties. For myself anyway its a huge gamble to run a truck like this without warranty. Service manager they can deny warranty right down to your power seats if you've tampered with the computer. Its a crazy world, if i had F you money id do it in a heart beat
 
I have driven many years and miles in 3/4 ton crew cab pickups, both diesels and gassers. I used to track all my expenses and ALWAYS came out significantly better on the gassers. Granted, driving more miles and towing more would shift the dynamics in favor of the diesel. I drive a diesel because I prefer the low-stress pulling capabilities of the diesel engines (way less rpm and noise when towing). Having said that, I have enjoyed both the gassers and diesels. My brother currently has a SRW F350 with the 7.3L gasser and 4.30 gears, running 35" tires. He uses it as a work truck and really loves, it works very well for what he does. As a side note, expect a lot of criticism from your die-hard diesel fan boys though, if you driver a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser!
Also, I have a fleet of 3500 and 5500 trucks, mostly diesels, but some gassers. They all drive short distances, with over 50% driving with a trailer behind, the fuel economy is bad on all of them, single digits (only have Duramax and Cummins diesels, and Chev 6.6 gassers)...
 
Pressure_welder said:
Yea i seriously considered deleting my 22 5500 during my def issues. Although after the service manager showed me an invoice for an engine replacement it changed my mind pretty quick. It also becomes an issue during annual safeties. For myself anyway its a huge gamble to run a truck like this without warranty. Service manager they can deny warranty right down to your power seats if you've tampered with the computer. Its a crazy world, if i had F you money id do it in a heart beat
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I mean, if you’re covering 35k miles a year, the warranty on most of the truck is going to be up very quickly.

I see your point, to be sure, but either way you’re looking at repairs out of pocket very quickly when using a truck that much.
 
Pressure_welder said:
Good day fellas just thought id throw this up for a bit of banter and see where everyones head space is at admist these insane prices for new diesels. Ive been a pretty dedicated diesel guy since 2004 when i bought my first new GMC ext cab LB7 loaded right up, loved that truck if i remember correctly it was 45,000$ out the door. Fast forward 7 trucks and i am now in a 24 limited chassis cab thats a welding rig/family truck. I also love this truck, i paid 105,000$ as a leftover in early 2025. I thought this was alot but hey whatever. Fast forward to 2026.... speaking with my friend who owns a dealership.... i would be so close to 130k to replace this truck with a 2026, call it 123 ish for a laramie. This to me is absurd, because i do not see 130k truck here.

I usually trade every 2.5-3 years, as i put on about 30-35k a year with the business, I dont tow much but i do run around close to max GVWR on the daily, and get an average of about 13.5-14mpg, highway i can see about 16.5-17mpg. Love the cummins even though its de-tuned.

Enter my friend who owns a very large construction company that i do alot of welding for... dozers/hoes/rock trucks you name it. He had a fleet of 2020+ 6.7 powerstroke 3/4 tons that he started to swap out with 3/4 ton 7.3 Godzilla in 2021 due to emissions related issues. Both from our cold winters and idle time. As of now his entire fleet of pickups is now 3/4 ton 7.3's a few of which have 200+ km on them. So i asked him how they were doing and if the change was worth it, he laid out all the numbers and charts for me granted hes a huge business compared to myself. But he said he'll never go back to another emissions equipped diesel truck in the pickup world. The fuel economy advantage of the diesel is almost null when compared to the higher diesel price vs gas, hes seeing roughly 11.7-13 mpg with the godzillas on average, about 7-8 when towing skid steers or mini hoes. With 10 trucks he has yet to see any major engine issues, more driveline related things or ball joints etc. From a business stand point he's saving thousands with going back to gas, as a diesel mechanic he made a good point that sort of hit home. These manufacturers are going backwards with diesels.... while they may be "reliable" in a sense, all the mandatory emissions equipment are making them less reliable long AND short term. The short term being def tank pumps, frozen def tanks that cant unthaw themselves, sensors etc. I dont disagree with this as ive also had my share of def problems in winter, alot have went away since i insulted my def injection line.

I have to say that chat with my buddy, in real world testing for 3+ years sort of opened my eyes a bit.... granted i dont know if id ever see myself in a Ford. But being so die hard diesel for so many years, I feel a bit of a shift in my mind set as to what is becoming justifiable. I am really curious to see if Ram releases a 6.7 cummins gas. I am still really on the fence but my friend certainly spoke alot of truth..... i believe while these diesels are great, i think they are also really flawed with all the emissions equipment both in a reliability sense long and short term. 130,000$ for a cummins or equivilent dually is getting a little out of hand i feel for what we are actually getting. The 10 year warranty is certainly a good incentive but is it worth an additional 13K over a gas powered truck? I really dont know. Curious to see what you guys think, or if any of you have switched back to gas. Certainly pro's and cons to both.
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Lots of great points and truths in there. It's a tough decision these days. Fortunately for me, mine is primarily a tow vehicle only. We have other vehicles for stop and go stuff. But even so, I worry about some of the costs that are likely headed my way at some point. Disappointing when compared to the pre-EPA diesels I own/owned. Given my circumstances and given I pull through the very hilly Ozark Mts, I'd probably go diesel again.
 
Unfortunately the ‘’game’’ is rigged. Poor Rudolph has a battle to fight. The EPA wants his elimination and are accomplishing this through emissions regulations. Technically it’s not their fault that the manufacturers are using expensive and unreliable solutions but the OEM’s hands are tied. It’s also criminal that diesel prices are higher than gasoline as it costs less to produce. Maybe our governments should look into that for us ……er they are too busy sweeping collusion under the rugs. They need more rugs. :oops: :mad:
 
I have a 2022 Cummins mega I bought new to replace my 2018 Cummins mega that replaced my 2017 duramax. All loaded trucks. I have been fortunate to not have major issues. But, I understand why your buddy didn’t have the in his fleet. My business we stick to gas trucks for the same reasons your friend said, they are super reliable and have plenty of power. My friend owns a big landscaping, concrete and excavation business so he has roughly 15 trucks pulling stuff all the time and running around. He went all gas too for the same reasons you mentioned.

I will say though that what I do enjoy about the diesel over the gas, by a lot actually is how it doesn’t rev up like a gas so it’s very quiet and smooth. Sounds silly but dang I like it lol.
 
I will agree with that statement!, even with just the welding bed rigged out on the truck its nice to climb hills and not have the truck downshift! It could just be a placebo effect as I've seen a few instances of people changing over in my immediate circle to HD gas, after almost 25 years of diesels father in-law just got rid of his 22 at4 duramax that he had decent luck with, but still def and emissions related issues. He went to the 6.6 gas in an AT4 this time around just to get away from emissions equip. He seems to like the 6.6 gas, his main take away's is obviously no def, 13k less upfront, and while I've never paid much attention to it or factored it in... less maintenance costs (fluid, filters,) Hes about 14-15mpg highway best case scenario.

again could just be me, but i feel like the general contemplation/decision making people make around a diesel vs gas has become more pronounced? possibly the combination of diesels being less reliable, more expensive, and the gas engines being more refined or more "bullet proof" has made them worth stronger consideration? I am still very much on the fence, as a business owner dollars and cents certainly matter and if there's money to be saved its certainly worth a discussion. But again, 20+ years as a diesel owner..... that's a DIFFICULT ship to jump off of.

I think its likely a safe statement that all 3 brands make fairly comparable vehicles, i still think the ram interior is hands down the best, father inlaws 25 at4 is ok, seats are garbage though! as for ford i havent sat in one since i test drove 22's, the lariat i was in seemed a bit plasticky, seats were comfortable, biggest plus i found was the cab size was huge, especially in the back seat.
 
My $.02

I wanted diesel, but too many factors shut that down fast. I tow the camper for 7 to 10 trips a year, tow a flat bed several times full of stuff for the family farm, and haul all the time( between 1k and 2k lbs). Diesel would have been great for those moments but terrible as a daily driver, family hauler and grocery getter. Add in that the cost is well above gas for pretty much everyone but a hotshot or full time commercial (even then an arguement could be made for gas).

So given that diesels aren't the best for short trips or daily driver use, require deletion and bulletproofing to prevent catastrophic failure/last, and the cost of ownership makes gas to ideal and only choice.

I drive HD gassers (gm 6.6,ram 6.4, ford 6.2 and 7.3) and diesels (international, frieghtliner, cat, Cummins 500+, ram Cummins SO and HO, ford 6.7) at work and they all have their place, pros and cons. Not a hater or lover of either diesel or gas. But reality gas made the most sense by a mile.
 
mdsonofthesouth said:
My $.02

I wanted diesel, but too many factors shut that down fast. I tow the camper for 7 to 10 trips a year, tow a flat bed several times full of stuff for the family farm, and haul all the time( between 1k and 2k lbs). Diesel would have been great for those moments but terrible as a daily driver, family hauler and grocery getter. Add in that the cost is well above gas for pretty much everyone but a hotshot or full time commercial (even then an arguement could be made for gas).

So given that diesels aren't the best for short trips or daily driver use, require deletion and bulletproofing to prevent catastrophic failure/last, and the cost of ownership makes gas to ideal and only choice.

I drive HD gassers (gm 6.6,ram 6.4, ford 6.2 and 7.3) and diesels (international, frieghtliner, cat, Cummins 500+, ram Cummins SO and HO, ford 6.7) at work and they all have their place, pros and cons. Not a hater or lover of either diesel or gas. But reality gas made the most sense by a mile.
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Can agree with some of that, but can’t agree with most of it.
 
jebruns said:
Bulletproofing hasn't been a thing since the Ford 6.0 PSD disaster. Just saying.
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Grid heater and Hydraulic lifters come to mind. Now I get the grid heater might be considered a "delete", but its still a fix that caused catastrophic engine damage and not just limp mode like other emissions changes. Going to solid lifters is another big issue that should be done that isn't a "delete". But even then deleting emissions is a bulletproofing in my book as the amout of regen issues, limp mode and so on causes reliability issues that can't exist on a "bullet proofed" platform.


Vdrsnk said:
Can agree with some of that, but can’t agree with most of it.
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Thats what makes the world great! Its YOUR purchase or MY purchase and niether of us is involved or should have a say. My $.02 is just from my anecdotal experience with what I listed above and research I have done. Nothing set in stone.

Id be curious what you don't agree with and why. Just for my etification.
 
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mdsonofthesouth said:
Grid heater and Hydraulic lifters come to mind. Now I get the grid heater might be considered a "delete", but its still a fix that caused catastrophic engine damage and not just limp mode like other emissions changes. Going to solid lifters is another big issue that should be done that isn't a "delete". But even then deleting emissions is a bulletproofing in my book as the amout of regen issues, limp mode and so on causes reliability issues that can't exist on a "bullet proofed" platform.




Thats what makes the world great! Its YOUR purchase or MY purchase and niether of us is involved or should have a say. My $.02 is just from my anecdotal experience with what I listed above and research I have done. Nothing set in stone.

Id be curious what you don't agree with and why. Just for my etification.
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Similar to what jebruns said. “Bulletproofing” hasn’t been a thing or been needed for decades. I also don’t agree with the part about daily driving them. I’ve been daily driving my last 3 diesel trucks the last 10 years without issue. I do minimum six times a day an 8 minute drive to work and back home. So they do fine there too. They also don’t require being deleted to last or for reliability, I did delete one and I didn’t actually like it as much.
 
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