Dealer Review (warning): First CJDR

[UglyViking]

I wrote this to help others that may be looking at buying a new Ram and visit these forums prior to purchase. I let some time pass since purchasing so that I can write this with a more clear head and also to choose my words carefully so as to not misrepresent myself or First CJDR. Warning, this is a rather long post.

TL;DR - I would avoid buying at First CJDR, there are some sketchy tactics being used and my experience was so bad that I had to threaten legal action in addition to numerous calls to FCA.

I had reached out to First Jun 27th inquiring about the vehicle. At the time I was between the Ram and the Ford and I thought the Ford would win so much so that I almost pulled the trigger. They were persistently emailing (both the internet manager and his secretary) until I got back to them on July 1st. I responded with a few questions about the truck, a FCA pin (the company I work for has affiliate rewards deals) and what I wanted for my truck. The dealer then called me over the phone and talked with me about the vehicle. I wanted to confirm the price I saw online was indeed the price I was going to pay as far too often the price online includes multiple rebates that are basically impossible for any single person to be eligible for. The internet manager informed me that since it was the first the deals were changing and he would get back to me in a few hours. I said that I understood but I was trying to get a sense of how they prices their trucks online, I explained my concern and asked what the price would be, assuming no further discounts from FCA and that since it was a 2019 truck and the 2021s should be out in a few months I hardly thought that FCA would change the discount up much. Here is where is started to go wrong, the dealer wouldn't give me the information, even after I pressed with the reason I was concerned. Finally after a bit of back and forth, clearly agitated he gave in and told me. I thanked him and moved on to my trade, to which he claimed he couldn't value it sight unseen.

I informed him that I already had three dealers value my trade, two came in at the same price with one of them offering to buy it outright and another came in lower trying to play games of "if I can get you x more can I get your business today". I informed him of this and also that I used the NADA guide which is the same guide they would use. I said I can send photos and all details but both dealers offered right on the NADA guide number to the dollar and that I wasn't going to drive in almost 2 hours each way if we were that far off. After some additional aggressive back and forth he finally caved. I emailed him data and pictures trying to be as clear as possible of the condition and what was good and bad about it. He later emailed me back and agreed that the numbers were spot on and they may even be able to get me a few dollars more if it would seal the deal. Great. He then informed me that FCA still hadn't released the numbers and so they would have to get back to me tomorrow.

This, again is odd. It's been a while and I didn't work directly with the manufacture previously but when I sold cars there was a few day overlap into the month before the numbers changed. Perhaps it was the specific brand but when the new numbers came in it was an instant switch. No guessing, not back and forth. Just one day they were X the next they were Y. Regardless I said sure but please let me know early in the morning as I was still looking at the Ford and wanted to know the final numbers. Next day (July 2nd) I hear nothing in the morning and after following up around 10:00am I get a call just before noon that the deal didn't change. I say great I'm gonna head down to do paperwork in a few hours. I asked about cutting a check from my bank, I already had financing so do they work directly with my bank or do I need to bring a check down?

This is where things start to go real bad. He informs me that they don't allow outside lending. After some back and forth he informed me he wouldn't even sell me the truck if I paid cash, I have to finance through them. I confronted him about this saying that I specifically asked about if there were any deals that needed to be done for buying the truck at the price as listed online and he told me no. He now claimed that since I never specifically asked about financing he didn't lie. I should have cut the deal off right here, the dealer is already being shady but since the truck was a good deal and exactly how I wanted I figured I wouldn't cut my nose to spite my face. I was very annoyed with him over the phone and got a little heated claiming multiple times that he lied by omission and I wasn't getting a good feeling but I decided to do it anyway and made a plan to come down. I then tried to get a sense of what their financing looked like as he told me "we've never lost a deal to financing" (which I feel is something that you say to people with low credit that are concerned with getting approval, which I was not)

He wasn't real willing to tell me over the phone since "everyone is different" but I told him that I've recently ran my numbers and I was at XXX number on each, I was going to be putting X down, plus trade and wanted to finance for 5 years. His response to me "we will probably be able to get you in the single digits". To which my response was no ****, double digit financing hasn't been a thing for high tier credit scores for decades. This initially started to frame the thought they are going to do something to mess with my rate. I'm sure they are planning on a large kickback and I don't expect them to play fair.

Once I got down there I apologized for getting heated over the phone, said that I was used to getting toyed with and didn't want to play the games but it was uncalled for me to get angry. (I didn't curse or anything, just got angry and made it known) I figured I didn't want to start off paperwork on the wrong foot and since I know my rights I can always just turn around and refinance through my own bank as long as there was no stipulation in the contract that I would have a prepayment penalty. We didn't haggle on price at all, they got the 23k that I asked for on my truck, I agreed to their outrageous dealer fees and window etching cost (I guess dealers have moved on from lojack) and went in to sign paperwork.

Now, it's important to call out that the number they gave me for a deal with FCA pin was identical to the number they had initially quoted from online. Either way if they got kicked back a few extra bucks then so be it. I presented my Pin as well as a printed copy of employment from my HR dept with contact information. They took it all and said they needed a copy of my badge or paystub. I said that I didn't have either on me but I could send in a photo of my badge. They pushed and said or paystub so I said I'd send in a pic of my badge, I purchased a new Wrangler for my wife not 2 years ago and they used it without issue. We do paperwork, they try and push all the normal stuff and I decline and move on. To my surprise they actually got me better financing numbers than my own credit union. So while my initial plan was to just transfer it over I figured I'd see if my bank could match it. Again, while I was annoyed with this dealer playing games with me I wasn't about to hurt myself just to get to them. We sign everything and they give me proof of sale and some other standard financing docs. I'm now on my way.

But wait, I live in NH and this dealer is in MA, I've never bought a vehicle from another state and I don't normally transfer plates so what do I do? No worries the dealer claims, you can use your current plates and slaps my old plates on the new truck. I later found out that this is completely illegal and the dealer should have known that since it's illegal in both states.

So now I've got the truck home and since it's the 4th of July weekend my town isn't open to register the truck. So I have to wait until Monday to go register it. So I'm already annoyed at this, brand new truck that I buy on Thursday and can't drive it till Monday. Bummer but it is what it is. So Monday comes along (July 6th) and I go down to town hall to register it, they tell me they need an MCO/MSO, which I don't have. (The dealer still has it and initially told me that they would give it to the bank who will do paperwork.) I email the dealer to get the MCO and send along my badge at 12:31pm on Monday. I spoke to the dealer over the phone at some point Monday and they tell me the MCO is being overnighted via FedEx. The dealer gets back to me on July 7th at 11:13am and tells me the badge doesn't have a company name on it and can't be used, they need a paystub. (I work for a large tech company so for security reasons we don't have our company name on it, however this same badge did work when I recently bought my wifes wrangler) I then pointed to the fact that I had a printed proof of employment from my HR department. The dealer then told me I could have easily forged it they need something better.

I called FCA affiliates to confirm that I could use my badge. FCA was not helpful as they couldn't really tell me how their system worked for vetting employment. The person I spoke to first seemed to indicate that the dealer validated employment, but later indicated they sent it via their system. I said my badge design should be in your system and it doesn't say anywhere on the site any details that I could find about the specifics about the badge requirements (I later did find some indicating it needed a name). I then asked about other forms of identification and they waffled a bit but did confirm that a recent W2 would work. Since I figured that would be less they could use against me I decided to go with that.

Part 1 of 2

 

[UglyViking]

Part 2 of 2

Now at this point he has confirmed with me twice that the MCO is being overnighted to me via FedEx. Ok cool, I inform him that I can't get him a copy of my paystub since I am currently out on paternity leave and there are legal requirements that I stay off the system. Now, I'll be up front here, there are legal requirements that I don't work while on leave but my guess would be that I would be more than ok to go online and get a paystub. I didn't want to do that as I already "knew" what the expectation was, they were going to try and screw around with me on my rates. I've seen this before, you get an awesome rate, all of a sudden they need to see a paystub, some information is off and your rate goes up by x%. I've got not clue if this is illegal or not, nor do I know for sure if this was their game, but with the shady tactics up to this point I wasn't going to have any of it. I am still asking about tracking for the MCO and haven't received any information.

He ends up calling me up and saying they need a paystub, and they can't send out the MCO until they get it. This is where I blew up, I had more than one choice word for them and lost my temper. In addition to some sailorly words I told them to call the number on my HR form and get proof that way, I already had all my legal documents signed, I submitted what I was supposed to and I didn't care one way or another they needed to get my MCO. The dealer then said it doesn't matter they need the paystub they had told me they would from the beginning (they said paystub or badge) and that was it. I told them I was confirming with FCA but that I'd have the truck taken back to them and the deal unwound before I gave them a paystub. I told them they haven't let me know they were still holding onto my MCO and that they told me it was overnighted. They said sorry, it's not going out until they get a pay stub.

At this point I'm so set against getting them a paystub I would have literally turned the truck over or sued. I am not for games and even if they were trying to just do their job they weren't being up front (not telling me they were holding onto the MCO until they get my paystub). They are just trying to run out the clock until I can get back to them with a paystub, my guess is so they can then inform me that the bank had to rework the rate based off my paystub or something.

I called FCA again and confirmed that a W2 would work. I then contact the dealer, July 7th 3:52pm, and send along my W2. I apologize for my heated language and let them know that I'm aggravated as it feels like they are playing games with me and having a newborn son and the stress of a single vehicle wasn't adding to the happy mood. The dealer then responds at 5:17pm July 7th, says thanks, apologizes for his part and says there is no change to funding, the deal is done and they are just trying to wrap up their part in the paperwork. Their staff that deals with this is currently gone but he will get back to me between 9am and 10am the next day.

I hear back the next day (July 8th at 11:25am) that they submitted my W2 and are awaiting confirmation from FCA so they can send out my MCO. Mind you it's now Wednesday whenI purchased the truck Thursday the week before. I've not been able to drive at all except to use my wifes jeep around town. We have a newborn son so I can't leave them without a vehicle in case there is an emergency. I follow up with an email 10 minutes later and ask about timeline, minutes, hours, days? How long until I get my MCO. No word from them for the rest of the day.

July 9th I called the internet manager about an hour and a half after they opened. Phone goes straight to voicemail. Hmm, odd well maybe it's his day off or he is busy. Ok I'll try the sales dept randomly. Call gets forwarded to the internet managers voicemail. Ok, thats really odd. I call the service dept and ask if the sals dept is open, they say yes so I asked to be forwarded. Again I go to the internet managers voicemail. I try one more time, go to service, ask for any person on the sales floor, but not the internet manager, I wanted to ask about a specific vehicle. Ok she says, I again am forwarded to the internet managers voicemail. So now I'm pretty confident that he is dodging my calls and that they have setup an auto forward to his voicemail for my number. To test this out I call with my wifes phone, get the sales dept the first time, I ask to speak to the internet manager, she forwards me and he answers. Look at that, he picks up on the first call, after I had tried 5 times to get him (2 calls direct, 1 call to the sales floor and 2 routed via service). I follow up about where my MCO is, well guess what, still not sent. He claims he is waiting for FCA to process my W2. Ok, I'm gonna speed this up by calling them.

I call FCA again, get routed through a few people and finally find someone who can help. This person is trying to dance around but she says she doesn't see my W2 in the system, claims maybe they are having "computer problems". She then confirms that there is nothing in the system but if I call them back and give them her number maybe they can get it sorted that day (Thursday). At this point I'm so over this that I'm not even angry anymore like before. I calmly state that I can't get a hold of the dealer as they are blocking my calls, they have my MCO they are holding hostage because I refuse to give a pay stub for this FCA pin. They claimed on the 8th (Wednesday) that they submitted my W2, but its still not in the system. I said that she needs to call and get this handled because if I don't have my MCO in hand by end of day Friday then the dealership was getting served with legal docs on Monday. I wait on hold while she calls, she then claims they are currently getting someone to submit it as we speak. I confirmed that they said they had not yet submitted it, she said they had not. Ok, so they have lied to me about submitting it when they actually hadn't. Again my guess is they are waiting until the day I said I'd be back to work to get my paystub so they can say it's faster with that and just use that.

Now maybe at this point they are being just as strongly willed as I was or maybe it is simpler to submit a paystub over a W2. I have no idea, but I do know they outright lied to me on numerous occasions now (both telling me my MCO was sent out and also that my W2 was submitted). What I do know is that I'm now looking up local lawyers that handle this and what I can do. They have my title from my old truck and cash and I've got their truck without MCO and the bill of sale. As I'm looking into lawyers I get a call late in the day (Thursday July 9th) from the general manager. He lets me know he wants to make it "easy" for me and that they are going to send a runner with the MCO to meet me at town hall on Monday. Now at this point I figured even if they overnighted it that second it wouldn't be here Friday while my town hall was open and I already had plans for Sat so I agreed. I warned him that if the guy wasn't there at the agreed upon time I would be filing a lawsuit against them. He promised it would be handled.

From here on it's smooth sailing. I get a call from the driver Sunday to confirm time and place. Driver meets me at Monday with all the docs, no issue.

To wrap. This was by far the worst experience I've ever had buying a new vehicle. I should have walked away numerous times but I didn't. I can't believe that FCA didn't step in sooner during the numerous calls I gave to them and that it took me threatening legal action to make progress. The amount of stress I had from this process has likely taken time off my life. I definitely blew up with the dealer multiple times, and I'm sure that didn't help the situation. I did apologize for my blowups both times (one of which was minor and the other major). How they acted should not have caused me to lose my temper like I did and I'm sure the internet manager has learned some new curse words due to me but this process was unforgivable. For a little while after this process I thought about taking legal action against the dealer but I honestly don't want to go through the process and headache. I am still looking into the process to file some sort of claim with FCA so they can reprimand this dealer. Frankly I'm less concerned with my own outcome and more concerned with others who may be taking advantage of because of this dealers shady tactics.

Below is the list of ways that this dealer messed up:

• Dealer wasn't up front about financing via dealer requirement when discussing price of vehicle
• Dealer put my old plates on a new vehicle which is illegal in both purchasing and registering state (they should have known as we boarder each other and they claimed to do business with residents)
• Dealer claimed that I forged HR paperwork (or rather "you could have made that", which isn't a legal accusation but it's close enough for me)
• Dealer wasn't up front with the fact they were holding onto the MCO until they finalized the FCA pin process
• Dealer wouldn't respond to my calls which required me to use my wifes phone to get in contact with them
• Dealer claimed they submitted my W2 to FCA when they had actually sat on it for over 2 days