Are the lubricity additives working? Are CP4 failures occurring anyway?

[Indian Country]

We have a 2020 3500 and scheduled a 4 month road trip with our trailer this year. However, it looks like the CP4 issue will be not resolved by our planned mid March departure. Losing power in the mountains or getting stranded in the desert has me clenching my jaw?

Thanks

 

[jeffn]

can’t plan your life around fear.

I have a 2020, drive FL to CA regularly.
- fillup at 1/4 tank.
- use 2 shots of Hotshots LX4 and 1 shot of EDT per tank. 50 gallon tank, fill up with 10 remaining so 2x and 1x per 40 gallons

Just drive. If a pump failure happens to you, it is a 100% probability but across the population of trucks sold the CP4 issue is affecting a small % of trucks. I don’t understand the idea of garage queening these trucks until Ram puts out a fix, just drive them.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Additives wont make a difference its not a lack of lube thats the issue you will be most likely fine just keep driving and if parts come availible while on your trip see if you can get the truck in at a near by dealer for the recall

 

[Indian Country]

can’t plan your life around fear.

I have a 2020, drive FL to CA regularly.
- fillup at 1/4 tank.
- use 2 shots of Hotshots LX4 and 1 shot of EDT per tank. 50 gallon tank, fill up with 10 remaining so 2x and 1x per 40 gallons

Just drive. If a pump failure happens to you, it is a 100% probability but across the population of trucks sold the CP4 issue is affecting a small % of trucks. I don’t understand the idea of garage queening these trucks until Ram puts out a fix, just drive them.

Agree, 100% probability we're going anyway.

 

[Indian Country]

Additives wont make a difference its not a lack of lube thats the issue you will be most likely fine just keep driving and if parts come availible while on your trip see if you can get the truck in at a near by dealer for the recall

Yep, seems like the plunger rotation might be the root cause.

 

[elephantrider]

I put 43k miles on my cp4 with zero issues. it was loud and rattly, but never gave up.

always use ps every other tank.

 

[John Jensen]

Additives wont make a difference its not a lack of lube thats the issue you will be most likely fine just keep driving and if parts come availible while on your trip see if you can get the truck in at a near by dealer for the recall

^^^^^ I disagree. I use additives in case ^^^^^ is wrong and for other reasons. I haven't seen any proof either way, just a lot of opinions, but see a lot of posts where owners are using additives to hopefully preclude failure. Additives are cheap insurance and IMO good preventative maintenance.

 

[fuchsroehre]

^^^^^ I disagree. I use additives in case ^^^^^ is wrong and for other reasons. I haven't seen any proof either way, just a lot of opinions, but see a lot of posts where owners are using additives to hopefully preclude failure. Additives are cheap insurance and IMO good preventative maintenance.

Hi John,
I do not want to state you are wrong here, not trying to start a fight and I would like to respect your opinion.
Please continue to use additives as long as it gives you an advantage. I am just trying to have a casual discussion.

I am rather writing to ask if anyone has found reasonable data to show that additives for Diesel fuel beyond what's mixed into fuel at gas stations gives any advantages.
My professional live has thought me to always ask for data, if there is no data then it is an experiment.
Right now it sounds that I am doing something wrong when not using Diesel fuel additives, I value my truck and engine and definitely look for doing the right things.

Ram and Cummins have approved Clean Diesel products but I have not found the statements that there are any advantages and recommendations beyond anti gelling.
It needs to be neutral info and not done or paid by the additive provider otherwise you have the fox guarding the henhouse.

In fact I fear that unapproved additives do more harm than help.

 

[Indian Country]

^^^^^ I disagree. I use additives in case ^^^^^ is wrong and for other reasons. I haven't seen any proof either way, just a lot of opinions, but see a lot of posts where owners are using additives to hopefully preclude failure. Additives are cheap insurance and IMO good preventative maintenance.

I've used Diesel Kleen intermittently but will be more vigilant going forward. However, if the plunger rotates I don't think an additive will help.

 

[John Jensen]

Hi John,
I do not want to state you are wrong here, not trying to start a fight and I would like to respect your opinion.
Please continue to use additives as long as it gives you an advantage. I am just trying to have a casual discussion.

I am rather writing to ask if anyone has found reasonable data to show that additives for Diesel fuel beyond what's mixed into fuel at gas stations gives any advantages.
My professional live has thought me to always ask for data, if there is no data then it is an experiment.
Right now it sounds that I am doing something wrong when not using Diesel fuel additives, I value my truck and engine and definitely look for doing the right things.

Ram and Cummins have approved Clean Diesel products but I have not found the statements that there are any advantages and recommendations beyond anti gelling.
It needs to be neutral info and not done or paid by the additive provider otherwise you have the fox guarding the henhouse.

In fact I fear that unapproved additives do more harm than help.

Howdy,
You ask, "I am rather writing to ask if anyone has found reasonable data to show that additives for Diesel fuel beyond what's mixed into fuel at gas stations gives any advantages."

The answer is yes.
1 - There is an older test of diesel fuel lubricity that proves additives add lubricity.
2 - There are public reports of how diesel fuel requirements vary across the states, some have good fuel requirements, some do not. Thus, some benefit from additives that bring the duel to desired specs.
3 - PRI-D additives keep fuel fresh or restore old fuel. If they didn't, they would be out of business.
4 - There are many examples of prescribed oil additives removing and preventing stiction.

Additives are so subjective, they have followers and nay sayers. There are owners who have never used an additive and never have a problem (their words). There are owners, like me, who use additives for added lubrication and for preventative maintenance. For example, I believe and from what I have read, as advertised, they do provide other long term benefits such as fuel system cleansing, etc. Mileage increase is not a reason to buy as that is the most subjective of all their advertised claims.

You say, "In fact I fear that unapproved additives do more harm than help."
I have never heard of, read about, or seen reported where current day additives have done HARM. And I'm certain that if there was such a case, all the nay sayers would present it. They never have.

I used to sell additives, had many conversations with additive engineers and have many testimonies documenting additive success stories. I'm a believer and I accept the nay sayers as it is such a personal choice.

That's all I can say about additives. I enjoyed the casual discussion.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

^^^^^ I disagree. I use additives in case ^^^^^ is wrong and for other reasons. I haven't seen any proof either way, just a lot of opinions, but see a lot of posts where owners are using additives to hopefully preclude failure. Additives are cheap insurance and IMO good preventative maintenance.

Additives are not a bad thing but it will never stop or prevent the lifter in the cp4 from rotating as its not caused by wear… i run powerservice most fill ups but not for the CP4

 

[Brutal_HO]

Howdy,
You ask, "I am rather writing to ask if anyone has found reasonable data to show that additives for Diesel fuel beyond what's mixed into fuel at gas stations gives any advantages."

The answer is yes.
1 - There is an older test of diesel fuel lubricity that proves additives add lubricity.
2 - There are public reports of how diesel fuel requirements vary across the states, some have good fuel requirements, some do not. Thus, some benefit from additives that bring the duel to desired specs.
3 - PRI-D additives keep fuel fresh or restore old fuel. If they didn't, they would be out of business.
4 - There are many examples of prescribed oil additives removing and preventing stiction.

Additives are so subjective, they have followers and nay sayers. There are owners who have never used an additive and never have a problem (their words). There are owners, like me, who use additives for added lubrication and for preventative maintenance. For example, I believe and from what I have read, as advertised, they do provide other long term benefits such as fuel system cleansing, etc. Mileage increase is not a reason to buy as that is the most subjective of all their advertised claims.

You say, "In fact I fear that unapproved additives do more harm than help."
I have never heard of, read about, or seen reported where current day additives have done HARM. And I'm certain that if there was such a case, all the nay sayers would present it. They never have.

I used to sell additives, had many conversations with additive engineers and have many testimonies documenting additive success stories. I'm a believer and I accept the nay sayers as it is such a personal choice.

That's all I can say about additives. I enjoyed the casual discussion.

Just pointing out the same study you reference did show some additives, notably MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil), reduced lubricity, which in theory would cause more wear.

Otherwise, I agree with your general premise and also used the data in the reports (even if sponsored by the additives brands) to decide if and what brand product to use. After the CP4 replacement, I will being going back to the approved Power Service products primarily for anti-gelling in the winter.

 

[jetrinka]

I used Optilube in my VP44 2001 Cummins. Never noticed any obvious differences other than that it didn’t blow up. Had the Mopar in tank lift pump too.

Take the sulfur out of diesel and lose some lubricity benefits. Stands to reason it would be good to run something as opposed to not.

 

[fuchsroehre]

I think premium Diesel (all year) has the same additives already included.
In our area Diesel fuel is winterized during the winter month and some suppliers add the Kleen Diesel additive. It is shown on the pump but the main purpose is the anti gel function. The #1 Diesel might not be added to the pump Diesel due to the additive package provided.
So, when using these 2 options, you should not need to add anything even if you want additives.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I think premium Diesel (all year) has the same additives already included.
In our area Diesel fuel is winterized during the winter month and some suppliers add the Kleen Diesel additive. It is shown on the pump but the main purpose is the anti gel function. The #1 Diesel might not be added to the pump Diesel due to the additive package provided.
So, when using these 2 options, you should not need to add anything even if you want additives.

Diesel clean is not an anti gel they typically will run a mix of diesel and stove oil as stove oil wont gel until extreme temps

 

[John Jensen]

I used Optilube in my VP44 2001 Cummins. Never noticed any obvious differences other than that it didn’t blow up. Had the Mopar in tank lift pump too.

Take the sulfur out of diesel and lose some lubricity benefits. Stands to reason it would be good to run something as opposed to not.

Good choice. Optilube XPD was # 2 rated, behind biodiesel, in the report I mentioned in post #10 above.

 

[John Jensen]

I think premium Diesel (all year) has the same additives already included.
In our area Diesel fuel is winterized during the winter month and some suppliers add the Kleen Diesel additive. It is shown on the pump but the main purpose is the anti gel function. The #1 Diesel might not be added to the pump Diesel due to the additive package provided.
So, when using these 2 options, you should not need to add anything even if you want additives.

I believe all cold weather states add an anti-gel to their winter blend. Doesn't Minnesota have, by law, 20% biodiesel at the pump? That gels at much warmer temps than petroleum diesel and definitely needs the anti-gel help. I read where owners in severe cold States and Canada that get by with the pump fuel, and also of as many that add an anti-gel. Glad I'm in sunny SoCal and only make short trips to the cold country. Califunny also changes to a winter blend. Not sure what they change, but is sure does reduce MPG. You deserve a reward for surviving what your weather brings you.

 

[Blythkd1]

Additives are not bad but will they keep a CP4 from grenading? Likely not since the biggest problem is the pump has no plunger guides of any kind to keep the plungers from rotating. Air in the fuel is likely the biggest killer of these pumps. I'm new here but come from the GM world where we've been dealing with the CP4 issue for 10+ years now. What most of the GM owners agree on is to keep air and water out of the system and run a fuel additive if you like. If you're running biodiesel, probably no need to worry about any other additive other than for anti-gel. I did run Power Service year round because I found that it gave me enough of a fuel mileage bonus to pay for itself plus a little bit. It wasn't a big deal one way or the other but it wasn't costing me anything so why not?

 

[tkabrick]

I believe all cold weather states add an anti-gel to their winter blend. Doesn't Minnesota have, by law, 20% biodiesel at the pump? That gels at much warmr temps than petroleum diesel and definitely needs the anti-gel help. I read where owners in severe cold States and Canada that get by with the pump fuel, and also of as many that add an anti-gel. Glad I'm in sunny SoCal and only make short trips to the cold country. Califunny also changes to a winter blend. Not sure what they change, but is sure does reduce MPG. You deserve a reward for surviving what your weather brings you.

The 20% requirement for Minnesota is only applicable from mid April through September. They allow B5 during the winter

 

[Indian Country]

Just found this great video today. It shows a blown CP4 being disassembled at what looks like a factory. The comments are in
Italian .