Alt ride height with Andersen WDH...new 2500

[miketx]

Hi all.......just got a new Rebel 2500 Cummins with Alt Ride Height. I currently tow a ~7k lb camper with a ~1k lb tongue weight. I was using an Andersen WDH system with my previous truck. Any tips for setting up the new truck? I know there is a whole measurement process in the manual, but it seems confusing. To me, it seems like the Alt Ride Height should be turned off until the Andersen setup is installed, then turn it back on. But all the instructions I read say the opposite (set it Alt Ride Height or Normal height and let the system adjust while installing the WDH). Or am I completely off on my interpretation? (BTW, I"m not implying that I will switch between Alt Ride Height and Normal on a whim. Whatever mode I use to setup the trailer, that's what will be used from that point forward).

Thanks, Mike

 

[Darkside]

The weight distribution hitch needs to be set up by doing the measurements on the front wheel well, measure what it is with the trailer off the hitch, then again with the full weight on the hitch and split the difference. The rear will self adjust, you can use either alt. ride height or normal height, whichever you prefer, you will just want to use the same setting every time you haul that trailer with the WDH.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Alt ride hight should be used for every step if you will be towing with it in alt ride height.

If you are not towing in alt ride height then do not use it at all.

Why would you set everything up using one mode then haul in a different mode thats just odd

 

[jebruns]

I don't know that I've ever used Alt ride height in my '22 2500. I did on my 18, but only as a bed lowering method. Since the '22 has a Bed Lowering Mode (18 did not have that), I only use it and normal ride height. I setup my WDH using the Normal setting.

 

[miketx]

Thanks for all the replies and helping me sift through all the info I had read in this forum and others. I just need to decide whether to use the alternate height or normal, but leave the air suspension running (and the truck running) when taking measurements and setting up.
Do you turn it off when unhitching? I had my former Ram with air suspension fight me a few times trying to unhitch the WDH....it was tricky unless I turned it off.

 

[Units]

I’ve got the Anderson I use. It says in the manual to use the trailer jack and raise the rear truck up approximately 2” and then hand tighten the chains onto the bushings and then lower the vehicle back down and use that as the starting point for adjustments. Not sure how the alt height works but maybe the alt height could be 2” above normal (or if it’s the other way around just reverse it) you could set up and then lower back to normal? Your TT setup sounds very similar to mine.

 

[miketx]

So I looked up the instructions in my Ram 2500/3500 manual. This states to have the air suspension running in either height mode when setting up.
Per the manual:
RECOMMENDED DISTRIBUTION HITCH ADJUSTMENT Towing With 2500/3500 Air Suspension
1. Position the truck to be ready to connect to the trailer (do not connect the trailer). NOTE: Standard Ride Height (SRH) or Alternate Trailer Height (ATH) can be used. The vehicle must remain in the engine running position while attaching a trailer for proper leveling of the air suspension system. It may not be possible to enter Alternate Trailer Height (ATH) while lightly loaded.
2. Measure the height from the top of the front wheel opening on the fender to the ground, this is height H1.
3. Attach the trailer to the vehicle without the weight distribution bars connected.
4. Measure the height from the top of the front wheel opening on the fender to the ground, this is height H2.
5. Install and adjust the tension in the weight distributing bars per the manufacturers’ recommendations so that the height of the front fender is approximately (H2-H1)/2+H1 (about 1/2 the difference between H2 and H1 above Standard Ride Height [H1]).
6. Perform a visual inspection of the trailer and weight distributing hitch to confirm manufacturer’s recommendations have been met.

 

[miketx]

I’ve got the Anderson I use. It says in the manual to use the trailer jack and raise the rear truck up approximately 2” and then hand tighten the chains onto the bushings and then lower the vehicle back down and use that as the starting point for adjustments. Not sure how the alt height works but maybe the alt height could be 2” above normal (or if it’s the other way around just reverse it) you could set up and then lower back to normal? Your TT setup sounds very similar to mine.

Yeah, I'm used to using the trailer jack to raise the rear, and then putting the bushing on with 3-4 thread turns visible. With my new heavier trailer, I had to tweak that to about 5-6 turns with my 1500, but I don't think I ever had it setup right. I used the Andersen on a previous, much lighter trailer and had no issues. I plan to take my time setting this up, even if it means taking everything off the trailer and starting from scratch. I may give Andersen a call or email and see what they say.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Look for posts by (I think ) @jsalbre on setting up WDH with air.

 

[jsalbre]

I've not used the Anderson WDH, or the auto-level, but the basic premise is you need the hitch height to be the same when you set it up and every time you tow afterwards. This means you'll need to stick with regular or alt-height for everything. You can't go back and forth.

The auto level will add some complication for setup as when it adjusts it's going to take pressure back off the WDH, so you may need to make more adjustments to get everything right. I'm not sure how to deal with the tension stuff on the Anderson, as that hitch is sort of an odd-ball compared to other WDH.

As with any WDH set-up I highly recommend verifying on a scale afterwards. The end goal isn't the change in suspension height, it's the weight restoration to the front axle.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I've not used the Anderson WDH, or the auto-level, but the basic premise is you need the hitch height to be the same when you set it up and every time you tow afterwards. This means you'll need to stick with regular or alt-height for everything. You can't go back and forth.

The auto level will add some complication for setup as when it adjusts it's going to take pressure back off the WDH, so you may need to make more adjustments to get everything right. I'm not sure how to deal with the tension stuff on the Anderson, as that hitch is sort of an odd-ball compared to other WDH.

As with any WDH set-up I highly recommend verifying on a scale afterwards. The end goal isn't the change in suspension height, it's the weight restoration to the front axle.

Must be another member I was thinking of...

 

[jsalbre]

Must be another member I was thinking of...

Could be me. I comment on it a lot because I’ve done a lot of research, and because there’s a lot of false info out there from a few companies.

 

[miketx]

I've not used the Anderson WDH, or the auto-level, but the basic premise is you need the hitch height to be the same when you set it up and every time you tow afterwards. This means you'll need to stick with regular or alt-height for everything. You can't go back and forth.

The auto level will add some complication for setup as when it adjusts it's going to take pressure back off the WDH, so you may need to make more adjustments to get everything right. I'm not sure how to deal with the tension stuff on the Anderson, as that hitch is sort of an odd-ball compared to other WDH.

As with any WDH set-up I highly recommend verifying on a scale afterwards. The end goal isn't the change in suspension height, it's the weight restoration to the front a

You are correct, and I think that is why they have you take multiple measurements and then try to setup the WDH. The end goal is to transfer weight back to the front axle. With a 1k lb tongue weight, my 1500 felt very light in the front end, even with the WDH. You can only transfer so much. Thus the reason I moved to a 2500 (and the Cummins in the front doesn't hurt either!).

 

[daemonic3]

I have a 3500 so my rear suspension has more stiffness than yours, but here is what I found works (and I think I used @Brutal_HO 's suggested order but maybe it was someone else). I may not have every number right off the top of my head but they should be close enough for reference.

The truck unloaded, with normal ride height will have I think 2" of rake where the rear fender is higher. Using normal height mode and knowing my hitch weight was about 1000#, I used the rule of thumb of have your unloaded ball height about 1/8" per 100# of hitch weight, above the top of your hitch's coupler (I don't remember where I got that rule of thumb from though but I've used it on past 2 trailers). The truck and trailer must be COPLANAR for this first hitch setup, don't use a bubble level, use frame height measurements on the trailer, as some parking surfaces may have a slight grade and if you level the trailer it wont be coplanar with your truck. I set up my shank holes to get this desired ball height once verifying trailer was coplanar to the ground.

Then I hooked up, no WDH. The rear barely squatted, and the front fender only lifted I think 3/8". I wasn't focused on the rear though because I know it will drop level when I set the alt height mode. I wanted to make sure my front came down after applying the tension. I lifted the hitch+truck using the tongue jack (you can hear the air suspension doing something, either fighting or entering jack mode, not sure), got the spring bars loaded then dropped back down and set the recommended tension (weighsafe hitch will tell you how much using an app). I measured the front fender height and indeed half of it was restored.

Then I set the alt height mode in the truck. Once it was done, I measured and front and rear fenders were height matched, no more rake. Trailer was level (within my measurement tolerances, and shank hole quantization). Trailer may not be perfectly level if shank holes adjust only every 1.25" or so, but it needs to be the closest hole you can get.

 

[daemonic3]

I have a 3500 so my rear suspension has more stiffness than yours, but here is what I found works (and I think I used @Brutal_HO 's suggested order but maybe it was someone else). I may not have every number right off the top of my head but they should be close enough for reference.

The truck unloaded, with normal ride height will have I think 2" of rake where the rear fender is higher. Using normal height mode and knowing my hitch weight was about 1000#, I used the rule of thumb of have your unloaded ball height about 1/8" per 100# of hitch weight, above the top of your hitch's coupler (I don't remember where I got that rule of thumb from though but I've used it on past 2 trailers). The truck and trailer must be COPLANAR for this first hitch setup, don't use a bubble level, use frame height measurements on the trailer, as some parking surfaces may have a slight grade and if you level the trailer it wont be coplanar with your truck. I set up my shank holes to get this desired ball height once verifying trailer was coplanar to the ground.

Then I hooked up, no WDH. The rear barely squatted, and the front fender only lifted I think 3/8". I wasn't focused on the rear though because I know it will drop level when I set the alt height mode. I wanted to make sure my front came down after applying the tension. I lifted the hitch+truck using the tongue jack (you can hear the air suspension doing something, either fighting or entering jack mode, not sure), got the spring bars loaded then dropped back down and set the recommended tension (weighsafe hitch will tell you how much using an app). I measured the front fender height and indeed half of it was restored.

Then I set the alt height mode in the truck. Once it was done, I measured and front and rear fenders were height matched, no more rake. Trailer was level (within my measurement tolerances, and shank hole quantization). Trailer may not be perfectly level if shank holes adjust only every 1.25" or so, but it needs to be the closest hole you can get.

Actually just thought more about this, and you don't need ANY rule of thumb on unloaded ball height when setting up the shank. You just need to know the default amount of rake, and that there will be a little bit of post-distributed front fender left, and subtract the two. This will tell you approximately how much higher to set your ball above the coupler, because the truck's alt height will level it once you're done.

Example: You measure your rake at 2". You expect probably 1/4" lift on the front once distributed. Go ahead and set your ball height 1.75" above the coupler. Maybe on a 2500 you get 3/8" of lift on the front, or more on a lighter gasser engine, not sure.

 

[miketx]

Actually just thought more about this, and you don't need ANY rule of thumb on unloaded ball height when setting up the shank. You just need to know the default amount of rake, and that there will be a little bit of post-distributed front fender left, and subtract the two. This will tell you approximately how much higher to set your ball above the coupler, because the truck's alt height will level it once you're done.

Example: You measure your rake at 2". You expect probably 1/4" lift on the front once distributed. Go ahead and set your ball height 1.75" above the coupler. Maybe on a 2500 you get 3/8" of lift on the front, or more on a lighter gasser engine, not sure.

Yeah, I plan to tow my camper to a flat parking lot with all my tools and tape measure, and get it setup sometime in the next two weeks. Thanks!

 

[Darkside]

Actually just thought more about this, and you don't need ANY rule of thumb on unloaded ball height when setting up the shank. You just need to know the default amount of rake, and that there will be a little bit of post-distributed front fender left, and subtract the two. This will tell you approximately how much higher to set your ball above the coupler, because the truck's alt height will level it once you're done.

Example: You measure your rake at 2". You expect probably 1/4" lift on the front once distributed. Go ahead and set your ball height 1.75" above the coupler. Maybe on a 2500 you get 3/8" of lift on the front, or more on a lighter gasser engine, not sure.

The rake of your truck has nothing to do with setting up a WDH properly and should never be used as a guide for setting it up, it should only be based off the amount of weight you remove from the front end by measuring the height of the front wheel well. Going by rake is a good way to either overload your torsion bars or not put enough weight back on the front axle.

 

[daemonic3]

The rake of your truck has nothing to do with setting up a WDH properly and should never be used as a guide for setting it up, it should only be based off the amount of weight you remove from the front end by measuring the height of the front wheel well. Going by rake is a good way to either overload your torsion bars or not put enough weight back on the front axle.

I wasn't suggesting using the rake to adjust the WDH tension, just to set the initial ball height guess to avoid trial and error. The alt-ride height will level the truck and remove the rake, so it can mess with traditional methods and rules of thumb. Instead of the trailer weight squatting the rear some TBD quantity and raising the front, in this case it the alt height setting should lower the rear a mostly known value with the upper bound being the rake of normal height mode, and we can use that to our advantage.

I agree the goal is to adjust the tension to restore the front height by about 1/2 the lift before applying tension, as mentioned in my first post.

 

[miketx]

Update:
I setup my WDH system with the truck yesterday afternoon. First baffling thing: it's 100% ok from the settings I had with my 16 Rebel 1500. That's weird....the 2500 Rebel is higher (I measured the hitch before I bought it). Maybe I had the 1500 setup wrong....who knows. It worked fine. Anyway, I took a bunch of measurements, with and without the air suspension on (jack mode on/off).
If I followed my WDH manufacturer, it was jack mode off. And everything measured ok when I finally turned Alt Height on. And if I followed Ram's instructions (leave it at Alt Height or Normal the whole time), the Ram measurements/calculations worked out ok with Alt Height Mode (Normal would have been too high, with the WDH too loose). So I'll leave it Alt Height Mode. Alt Height Mode must be close to my old Rebel 1500 setup.
I did try out a cool trick I saw on Youtube: using "Bed Lowering Mode" to release the truck from the hitch ball. I still had to raise the trailer jack a bit, but much much less than normal. Pretty cool.

 

[jsalbre]

Glad you got it worked out!