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2500 vs 1500 and TT weight

jdefoe0424

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We've had our first TT for almost a year now. I originally had a 5th gen 1500 Laramie 5.7 w/ 3.92 gears. Was a minimally optioned Laramie and had decent payload at 1615lbs.
Early this year I jumped to a 2500, mostly because of the good trade-in values. Didn't get the 2500 I wanted, but it was in the desired budget. I now have a Tradesman 2500 with the 6.4 and 3.73 gears, sticker says 3036lb payload.
The TT is a 2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 282BHDS, sticker says 7,700 GVWR.
I have a Husky centerline WDH, bought a drop shank for the 2500.

DD comparison. Obviously the 1500 got better mileage and was more comfortable. Though I feel like the 6.4 drives better with the higher shift points. Obviously there's a huge discrepancy in creature comforts, so I'm not going into that.
I will definitely have to get an aftermarket LSD/posi etc. when one becomes available, this thing is terrible in the snow with the Transforce HT's, 4x4 works well though. Due to $$$, and other priorities I likely won't change the tires until absolutely needed.

Towing Comparison. The 2500 feels more stable, much less movement when big vehicles pass. But it does feel like less power than the 1500, probably due to extra weight (~1500lbs) and less gearing. I still get the same undulations I got with the 1500, though it does feel like it's more controlled and dampens them quicker. When on the highway, you can definitely tell the 6.4 has more torque at 2k RPM's than the 5.7 does. It would pull slight grades at 65-70 mph in 7th gear if you let it, I found myself locking it out of 8th so it wouldn't shift back and forth.
Full disclaimer, I did not actually measure or truly set up the WDH for the 2500(other than being close on height). I pulled one washer out and figured it would be good enough for this trip, and it was.
I was amazed at how much cooler the temperatures stayed, trans temp on the 1500 would follow coolant temp whereas the 2500 held 165-170 the whole time.
Didn't see oil temps above 230ish, but didn't push that hard either because I wasn't in a hurry to get anywhere.

Weights. I finally made the time to get to a cat scale, and I'm glad that I did. I found out that the trailer weighs ~6700lbs, this is all tanks empty after the weekend of camping. Though the fridge did have food in it, water bottles were mostly gone. We typically travel with ~1/3 tank for bathroom and lunch stops, but the first trip this year was 1.5hrs away and I haven't sanitized the fresh water side yet.
Tongue weight is 760lbs w/out WD, spec on the trailer is 737lbs. Now this definitely surprised me as we have all the chairs and outdoor kids toys in the front storage compartment. We also recently upgraded the mattress to something that is 95lbs vs the worthless one that was probably under 40lbs. I was fully expecting it to be over 800lbs.
Tongue weight w/ WD is right at 12%, w/o is closer to 11%. Camper total is 6700lbs.
That's where I start to get some understanding from what I've felt various times I've pulled it with the 1500. I always packed most of the stuff in the rear(suitcases and water), occasionally a few last minute things on the bed in the front. This was to help with payload on the 1500 as I thought it was higher than it actually was.
One trip I put too much water in the fresh tank(it was over 2/3 full), figured it wasn't a big deal as we weren't going that far anyways....well the water tanks are above/behind the axles...no more explanation needed there.

I now am 100% confident that I was still within all ratings of my 1500 by 2-250lbs, BUT I also could have kept it a little longer and still been OK, load range E's probably would have made me extremely happy. I'm sure that there were trips where I was within 100lbs of max GVWR and we have another baby coming so it would only get tighter in the coming years.
I now know that I need to load more stuff in the front of the camper and that will help load the springs on the truck more and hopefully make it behave better.
I need to measure truck and trailer to get the drop specified in the manual, and that will likely determine the path forward.

I'm sure there's more, if I think of anything else I'll come back and edit here.

edit 5/18. added pics too.
Gas mileage I think is about the same as the 1500, I traveled mostly 2 lanes and a little bit of highway and the EVIC was telling me 9.2 mpg. I'll know more when we make our yearly trek from the midwest to the northeast to visit family.
I'm mixed on the tow mirrors, definitely better than the standard mirrors but was hoping for a little bit better view than what they have when flipped up.
 

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As you have learned, half tons are not proper camper tow vehicles no matter what the RV and auto industries tell people. I made the same jump with a similar size trailer because the 1500 just wasn't cutting it. I was a little aggravated in that I made sure I left a healthy cushion on all weights and did not get the floor plan I really wanted. The one thing I don't see here is how it handles wind. The higher curb weight offsets the wind force against a longer trailer. That is not something any manufacturer can engineer in a half ton, especially Ford who is getting their payloads by cutting curb weight.
 
As you have learned, half tons are not proper camper tow vehicles no matter what the RV and auto industries tell people. I made the same jump with a similar size trailer because the 1500 just wasn't cutting it. I was a little aggravated in that I made sure I left a healthy cushion on all weights and did not get the floor plan I really wanted. The one thing I don't see here is how it handles wind. The higher curb weight offsets the wind force against a longer trailer. That is not something any manufacturer can engineer in a half ton, especially Ford who is getting their payloads by cutting curb weight.
Yes, the biggest help by far is the higher curb weight of a 2500. I think the 1500 handled the trailer really well, there was not any scary moments and I drove through maybe 2 decent storms. I still think with a "proper" tire for towing ( E instead of XL passenger) it would have been much better. I only towed at or below the speed limit, 70 at the most.
 
You are much better off with the 2500, it’s always nice to have extra margin
 
I’m about to be in the same predicament I currently tow an RV fish house with my 2020 1500 Ecodiesel with 3.92 gears. My current trailer is 4,700 dry weight and 680 hitch weight. I’m guessing its at least 5k lbs or more when it’s loaded up. It’s called a 17’ but with the v-nose and hitch it’s 26’ long or so and it’s a big sail. My truck has plenty of power to pull it but if there is any kind of cross wind It gets uncomfortable.

my new custom ordered trailer is going to be 4’ longer and 1,500 to 2k lbs heavier. Being a fish house we use it year round and as much as 15 times a year. My plan was to wait until the new rig is ready and try pulling it home with my current truck since it will be a 2hr drive. I figured I’d know for sure after that if I wanted a bigger truck or not. Now I’m starting to wonder if I should just start looking now and make the switch before the new trailer is done. Because I’m almost positive I’m not going to like pulling it with my 1/2 ton.
 
You are much better off with the 2500, it’s always nice to have extra margin
Indeed. I'm thinking of we go often enough we might pick up a golf cart to put in the bed...Wouldn't be able to do that with a 1500!
Also generator for lunch stops etc. Never took firewood with us before etc etc
I’m about to be in the same predicament I currently tow an RV fish house with my 2020 1500 Ecodiesel with 3.92 gears. My current trailer is 4,700 dry weight and 680 hitch weight. I’m guessing its at least 5k lbs or more when it’s loaded up. It’s called a 17’ but with the v-nose and hitch it’s 26’ long or so and it’s a big sail. My truck has plenty of power to pull it but if there is any kind of cross wind It gets uncomfortable.

my new custom ordered trailer is going to be 4’ longer and 1,500 to 2k lbs heavier. Being a fish house we use it year round and as much as 15 times a year. My plan was to wait until the new rig is ready and try pulling it home with my current truck since it will be a 2hr drive. I figured I’d know for sure after that if I wanted a bigger truck or not. Now I’m starting to wonder if I should just start looking now and make the switch before the new trailer is done. Because I’m almost positive I’m not going to like pulling it with my 1/2 ton.
Yeah, without a WDH I wouldn't attempt it. I did have to pull my TT home an hour and a half without it and luckily it was good weather, UPS damaged my package and had to wait for the replacement.
 
Last truck: '17 ecodiesel laramie. Payload was about 1400 ish. Added camper shell, plus towed a 27' trailer. Was way over payload, hitting the stops, got timbren stops, and would just ride on those. However it still towed well, shifted better than my 2021 3500 6.7 SO.

New truck: '21 3500 Mega cab Laramie. Drives way stiffer, MPG's are 18 combined as opposed to 22 on ecodiesel. Towing is awesome, except for hills. The six speed shifts weird, revving up and then settling back to it's correct gear. Overall I'm happy with the truck.
 
Last truck: '17 ecodiesel laramie. Payload was about 1400 ish. Added camper shell, plus towed a 27' trailer. Was way over payload, hitting the stops, got timbren stops, and would just ride on those. However it still towed well, shifted better than my 2021 3500 6.7 SO.

New truck: '21 3500 Mega cab Laramie. Drives way stiffer, MPG's are 18 combined as opposed to 22 on ecodiesel. Towing is awesome, except for hills. The six speed shifts weird, revving up and then settling back to it's correct gear. Overall I'm happy with the truck.
Yup, the ZF 8 speed is way better than any transmission that has been designed by Dodge/RAM. I can't wait until they get the 8 speed behind the SO Cummins, it might even out tow the Aisin without the extra power. Though I think the rumor is the new 8 speed is going to be good for 1,000 ftlbs.
I am not anticipating needing a diesel for 5-10 years, then we will probably get a large 5th wheel and I will go 3500 dually. The gasser will do just fine until then.

I like my 2500, it's stiffer than the 1500 but not overbearing for daily driving. I'd equate it to how 1/2 tons used to ride before they started becoming lifted cadillacs.
 
Yup, the ZF 8 speed is way better than any transmission that has been designed by Dodge/RAM. I can't wait until they get the 8 speed behind the SO Cummins, it might even out tow the Aisin without the extra power. Though I think the rumor is the new 8 speed is going to be good for 1,000 ftlbs.
I am not anticipating needing a diesel for 5-10 years, then we will probably get a large 5th wheel and I will go 3500 dually. The gasser will do just fine until then.

I like my 2500, it's stiffer than the 1500 but not overbearing for daily driving. I'd equate it to how 1/2 tons used to ride before they started becoming lifted cadillacs.
Coming from a 2019 1500 to a 2020 2500 CTD....6 speed performs much better than the 8 speed for towing IMO. The 8 speed in tow mode was reluctant to downshift when you got on the throttle and would be racing the rpms by the time you got what you needed. I don't even notice shift patterns on my 2500. There are some areas near me where you have to take a curve at 10mph then climb straight up hill...shifts right where I need it and delivers power instantly.
 
Coming from a 2019 1500 to a 2020 2500 CTD....6 speed performs much better than the 8 speed for towing IMO. The 8 speed in tow mode was reluctant to downshift when you got on the throttle and would be racing the rpms by the time you got what you needed. I don't even notice shift patterns on my 2500. There are some areas near me where you have to take a curve at 10mph then climb straight up hill...shifts right where I need it and delivers power instantly.
I've not towed with one recently, but I remember driving my dad's 04.5 manual(years ago now) and also experience with my turbo BMW with the 8 speed. IMO, some of that's just the difference between NA and turbo. NA you need RPM to get power out of the engine, with a turbo you just spool and it will build power anywhere in the RPM range. It becomes more obvious under load, of course.
I can agree to an extent though, it would be nice if the engine would lug a little bit more before changing down a gear. I'm sure some of that is also done to help with engine longevity, decreasing peak cylinder pressures and staying away from load conditions which could lead to knock/detonation.
 
Well, we took our long trip to see family and on the way out there got 9.1 MPG...on 3 tanks. Mostly traveling with semi's at 65-70.
Return trip wasn't as good to start off as we took a less traveled, but more scenic(and hilly) route. One tank was 7.8 with quite a bit of elevation change, 8.8 MPG overall for the return trip.
Overall average after ~2000 miles towing and 3-400 miles unloaded, was 9.1. Pretty similar mileage to what I got with the 1500. $800 in fuel beats staying in hotels by a large margin!

I'm amazed at how much cooler the 2500 runs, only time the oil temp went to 230 was when we were climbing up to 2080ft in the southern tier of NY. Other than that it held a pretty consistent 224-226, trans ran under 170 the whole time even climbing mountains in Mass to get to one of our campsites.
Overall the 2500 feels less powerful getting up to speed than the 1500, but I can guess that if I had 4.10's I'd be saying something different. Regardless, when cruising the highway the 2500 seems to shift less and you can tell it's got more torque at lower RPM's.
Stability is obviously no comparison, a truck that's 1500lbs heavier and nearly 2ft longer is much more stable.
The solid front axle though is something to experience...the first time going through a curve and hitting a large frost heave is interesting to say the least. I think some upgraded shocks and steering stabilizer in the future will make it a little more comfortable. Also can't wait until the firestones are toast and can put some good rubber on too.

Definitely loving the 8ft bed, we were able to take 2 strollers, a wagon, a bin of firewood, generator and the oh sh*t box of tools with room to spare. No real complaints about the truck other than the cheap seating and interior pieces that comes with having a tradesman.
 

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Well, we took our long trip to see family and on the way out there got 9.1 MPG...on 3 tanks. Mostly traveling with semi's at 65-70.
Return trip wasn't as good to start off as we took a less traveled, but more scenic(and hilly) route. One tank was 7.8 with quite a bit of elevation change, 8.8 MPG overall for the return trip.
Overall average after ~2000 miles towing and 3-400 miles unloaded, was 9.1. Pretty similar mileage to what I got with the 1500. $800 in fuel beats staying in hotels by a large margin!

I'm amazed at how much cooler the 2500 runs, only time the oil temp went to 230 was when we were climbing up to 2080ft in the southern tier of NY. Other than that it held a pretty consistent 224-226, trans ran under 170 the whole time even climbing mountains in Mass to get to one of our campsites.
Overall the 2500 feels less powerful getting up to speed than the 1500, but I can guess that if I had 4.10's I'd be saying something different. Regardless, when cruising the highway the 2500 seems to shift less and you can tell it's got more torque at lower RPM's.
Stability is obviously no comparison, a truck that's 1500lbs heavier and nearly 2ft longer is much more stable.
The solid front axle though is something to experience...the first time going through a curve and hitting a large frost heave is interesting to say the least. I think some upgraded shocks and steering stabilizer in the future will make it a little more comfortable. Also can't wait until the firestones are toast and can put some good rubber on too.

Definitely loving the 8ft bed, we were able to take 2 strollers, a wagon, a bin of firewood, generator and the oh sh*t box of tools with room to spare. No real complaints about the truck other than the cheap seating and interior pieces that comes with having a tradesman.


These are great write ups. Thank you for the honest feedback and not putting up another "MY TOWING MPG NETTED 13 MPG--IM AMAZED" type of nonsense.

To be honest (and it sounds like you might agree) you were right on the line with needing a more capable truck. It sounds like your 1500 did the job just fine.

I'll agree, an 8ft bed when out towing/comping is an awesome thing to have. Did you get the larger fuel tank with your new 2500?
 
These are great write ups. Thank you for the honest feedback and not putting up another "MY TOWING MPG NETTED 13 MPG--IM AMAZED" type of nonsense.

To be honest (and it sounds like you might agree) you were right on the line with needing a more capable truck. It sounds like your 1500 did the job just fine.

I'll agree, an 8ft bed when out towing/comping is an awesome thing to have. Did you get the larger fuel tank with your new 2500?
Yeah, there's lots of people out there who switched but few really say how it goes. Then there's just the people who make the blanket statement that you need a 3/4 ton for a 32' TT...The 1500 did well, and upgrading the tires and shocks and/or airbags/timbrens etc. would have made it handle much better. However we are going to go bigger one day, so it just made sense to upgrade the entire truck now instead of later when used values were down again.

Yes, I was right on the edge. When we went camping I was probably within 200lbs of payload(maybe less) depending on what we took with us and as the kids grow that extra payload will disappear.

Unfortunately I do not have the 50 gallon tank, it would be very nice though.
 
Yeah, there's lots of people out there who switched but few really say how it goes. Then there's just the people who make the blanket statement that you need a 3/4 ton for a 32' TT...The 1500 did well, and upgrading the tires and shocks and/or airbags/timbrens etc. would have made it handle much better. However we are going to go bigger one day, so it just made sense to upgrade the entire truck now instead of later when used values were down again.

Yes, I was right on the edge. When we went camping I was probably within 200lbs of payload(maybe less) depending on what we took with us and as the kids grow that extra payload will disappear.

Unfortunately I do not have the 50 gallon tank, it would be very nice though.

Yep.. if you plan to upgrade your RV, the bigger truck is the obvious choice.

However, if you were going to stay with your current RV, that 1500 with some 10 ply's and air bags would tow like an animal!

All good stuff...
 
Yep.. if you plan to upgrade your RV, the bigger truck is the obvious choice.

However, if you were going to stay with your current RV, that 1500 with some 10 ply's and air bags would tow like an animal!

All good stuff...

This is true but the tow nazis will argue otherwise. I always ran E rated tires on my half tons.

The one thing that may cause you grief on a half ton, when closing in on max payload, is overheating the transmission.


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Payload schmayload. A 7,700lb TT kicked my 2016 Silverado 1500s ass. There's a lot of stuff that gets glossed over when the gen pop compares a 1500 to an HD. "Oh it's heavier, that's why it's more controlled". Have you seen the steering knuckles under an HD? The frame sections? Suspension arm thickness? All that extra weight is from that larger, thicker, stronger metal EVERYWHERE. Tires and shocks and party tricks to get a 1/2 ton to handle an 11x35ft wind sail are bandaids to cover up the fact that they are over-rated and if towing anything close to what their ratings say, should only be a low stacked pallet of bricks with great trailer brakes. There's moving it, and then there is properly towing it. They move it on those rating tests. Let me know when they start doing SAE towing rating tests on 1/2 tons moving fully loaded RVs down the I-17 switchbacks south of Flagstaff in a Monsoon.
 
Payload schmayload. A 7,700lb TT kicked my 2016 Silverado 1500s ass. There's a lot of stuff that gets glossed over when the gen pop compares a 1500 to an HD. "Oh it's heavier, that's why it's more controlled". Have you seen the steering knuckles under an HD? The frame sections? Suspension arm thickness? All that extra weight is from that larger, thicker, stronger metal EVERYWHERE. Tires and shocks and party tricks to get a 1/2 ton to handle an 11x35ft wind sail are bandaids to cover up the fact that they are over-rated and if towing anything close to what their ratings say, should only be a low stacked pallet of bricks with great trailer brakes. There's moving it, and then there is properly towing it. They move it on those rating tests. Let me know when they start doing SAE towing rating tests on 1/2 tons moving fully loaded RVs down the I-17 switchbacks south of Flagstaff in a Monsoon.

I couldn’t agree more. This is especially true on a TT that is 35 ft long. But a half ton will tow a 30 ft ultra lite with ease. Of course this means using a high quality WDH also.


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Payload schmayload. A 7,700lb TT kicked my 2016 Silverado 1500s ass. There's a lot of stuff that gets glossed over when the gen pop compares a 1500 to an HD. "Oh it's heavier, that's why it's more controlled". Have you seen the steering knuckles under an HD? The frame sections? Suspension arm thickness? All that extra weight is from that larger, thicker, stronger metal EVERYWHERE. Tires and shocks and party tricks to get a 1/2 ton to handle an 11x35ft wind sail are bandaids to cover up the fact that they are over-rated and if towing anything close to what their ratings say, should only be a low stacked pallet of bricks with great trailer brakes. There's moving it, and then there is properly towing it. They move it on those rating tests. Let me know when they start doing SAE towing rating tests on 1/2 tons moving fully loaded RVs down the I-17 switchbacks south of Flagstaff in a Monsoon.
Yep! I've towed with a half ton, hated it. I'm of the camp where it's much better to have more truck than less truck.
 
Payload schmayload. A 7,700lb TT kicked my 2016 Silverado 1500s ass. There's a lot of stuff that gets glossed over when the gen pop compares a 1500 to an HD. "Oh it's heavier, that's why it's more controlled". Have you seen the steering knuckles under an HD? The frame sections? Suspension arm thickness? All that extra weight is from that larger, thicker, stronger metal EVERYWHERE. Tires and shocks and party tricks to get a 1/2 ton to handle an 11x35ft wind sail are bandaids to cover up the fact that they are over-rated and if towing anything close to what their ratings say, should only be a low stacked pallet of bricks with great trailer brakes. There's moving it, and then there is properly towing it. They move it on those rating tests. Let me know when they start doing SAE towing rating tests on 1/2 tons moving fully loaded RVs down the I-17 switchbacks south of Flagstaff in a Monsoon.

Oh boy…. We got a live one!
 
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