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2019 Power Wagon suspension has become “floaty”

Hopefully you've fixed this issue but thought I would add something that I learned from a good local tire shop. Run your tires with the max cold tire pressures printed on the tires. Our trucks say 65 PSI on them because they were engineered with 33" tires. I run Toyo Open Country M/T's in 37x12.50R17 on factory 75th rims at 50 PSI cold in warm weather, and let them naturally go down to 40 PSI cold now that it's winter for added traction. It's not much but noticeable since it's my daily.

My truck has about 80,000 miles now and I'm also experiencing the wag with a fibreglass cap and a (admittedly overbuilt ) drawer system. Was looking at the 5160s or 8100s, Kings would be nice but overkill since I only off road for a couple weeks each year. I'm glad I read through here though, a Thuren track bar seems like a good addition as well.
 
Are you running your truck fully loaded? If not, that's too much pressure. Your "tire" guy is telling you that for legal reasons due to the Firestone tire issue back long ago.
I too have a 75th PW. Went and had it weighed empty. 4000 Lb front axle, 3200 rear axle.
So running 35s on the factory bead lock capable rims, I run 35/30 and get the best even tire wear. Anything higher, and it wears out just the center of the tire.
Best thing to determine the correct pressure is to look at the tire manufactures recommended tire pressure chart for the tires you run and the actual weight on each axle.
As for your 5160 shocks, they are twice the price of the 5100s. Only difference between the two is the little bit of extra oil that is in the remote resivour. Most of that resi is full of nitrogen and the Floating Piston.

As for el bartos issue, as I've recently found out, it's the shocks. Mine started going out around 30 to 35K miles. That's why I'm now gathering parts to rebuild them.
 
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I'm guessing I have 500-600 lbs in the rear at all times with heavy cap, drawers, and edc tools/recovery gear. About half of my camp kitchen is in there all the time to make coffee while river fishing in the fall.

The tire is what recommends 50 cold, which the tire guy brought to my attention when I bought my first set of 37s. My wear is nice and even, but I will say, that tire pressure with the beefier (and heavier at 84 lbs each) Toyo M/Ts is much harsher than my previous K02s (weigh 64 lbs each). They are both 8-ply. The K02s wore even as well but only gave me 45,000 miles, hoping to get more out of these guys.

I'll have to find a scale near me that does per axle, that would be nice info to have for furthering my build.
 
Mine got “floaty” at around 35k miles, the last 22k or so were mine. It became dang floaty this hunting season.
The previous owner was a realty company that used it driving folks to houses, I have used it hard off road and it is almost always above payload when doing that. Strange that the float was pronounced when running light, not much when the bed was packed and the trailer tongue on it. Thinking that the loaded truck had already compressed the coils a bit when heavy and less susceptible to travel due to road input.
They say the track bars on a PW will go about 20k if used hard.
Replaced them last Tuesday with fairly cheap Rough Country, the working ends are much larger than stock and new, the bars much more robust..float mostly gone, at least back to what it was when I got it.
Now that I know the symptom for sure, it will get better next time.
 
Poolmonkey said:
Mine got “floaty” at around 35k miles, the last 22k or so were mine. It became dang floaty this hunting season.
The previous owner was a realty company that used it driving folks to houses, I have used it hard off road and it is almost always above payload when doing that. Strange that the float was pronounced when running light, not much when the bed was packed and the trailer tongue on it. Thinking that the loaded truck had already compressed the coils a bit when heavy and less susceptible to travel due to road input.
They say the track bars on a PW will go about 20k if used hard.
Replaced them last Tuesday with fairly cheap Rough Country, the working ends are much larger than stock and new, the bars much more robust..float mostly gone, at least back to what it was when I got it.
Now that I know the symptom for sure, it will get better next time.
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How can you tell the track bar is shot? I had 91,150 miles on my Limited, when I put on the Thuren track bars. My stock track bars show no signs of being worn out, they are tight as new. I'd bet the stock track bars go well over 200K without wearing out... By the way, I stuck a pry bar into the bushing hole, to test the firmness of the bushing.
 
MAKwagon said:
I'm guessing I have 500-600 lbs in the rear at all times with heavy cap, drawers, and edc tools/recovery gear. About half of my camp kitchen is in there all the time to make coffee while river fishing in the fall.

The tire is what recommends 50 cold, which the tire guy brought to my attention when I bought my first set of 37s. My wear is nice and even, but I will say, that tire pressure with the beefier (and heavier at 84 lbs each) Toyo M/Ts is much harsher than my previous K02s (weigh 64 lbs each). They are both 8-ply. The K02s wore even as well but only gave me 45,000 miles, hoping to get more out of these guys.

I'll have to find a scale near me that does per axle, that would be nice info to have for furthering my build.
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I run 37s Toto MTs on my 1500 Chevy and run them at 33/30 when empty

Ive run KO2, MT Baja Boss and Kenda Klevar in 35 on my PW. All set at 35/30. When fully loaded, I'll bump it up to about 45.
Going by the load of inflation tables, I should be running 30/25 empty on my PW. But the tires look too flat and I don't like it . Unless I'm going off road and need to air down.

In our 5500 lb off road race truck running 40" BFG race tires, we only run between 25 and 27, depending on the terrain in Baja
 
johanh13 said:
How can you tell the track bar is shot? I had 91,150 miles on my Limited, when I put on the Thuren track bars. My stock track bars show no signs of being worn out, they are tight as new. I'd bet the stock track bars go well over 200K without wearing out... By the way, I stuck a pry bar into the bushing hole, to test the firmness of the bushing.
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I couldn’t tell except for experiencing the wallowing/floating that guys describe when their bars are shot and the same that is supposedly eliminated by replacing with better aftermarket.
Replacing mine with new stopped it 95%, so assuming mine were not great.
 
MAKwagon said:
I'm guessing I have 500-600 lbs in the rear at all times with heavy cap, drawers, and edc tools/recovery gear. About half of my camp kitchen is in there all the time to make coffee while river fishing in the fall.

The tire is what recommends 50 cold, which the tire guy brought to my attention when I bought my first set of 37s. My wear is nice and even, but I will say, that tire pressure with the beefier (and heavier at 84 lbs each) Toyo M/Ts is much harsher than my previous K02s (weigh 64 lbs each). They are both 8-ply. The K02s wore even as well but only gave me 45,000 miles, hoping to get more out of these guys.

I'll have to find a scale near me that does per axle, that would be nice info to have for furthering my build.
Click to expand...
The tire definitely doesn’t recommend 50 PSI cold. It recommends 50 PSI cold at max load. The tire manufacturer has charts that list the proper inflation by weight.

Running far outside of that recommended pressure will result in increased wear and decreased control.
 
Crusty old shellback said:
I run 37s Toto MTs on my 1500 Chevy and run them at 33/30 when empty

Ive run KO2, MT Baja Boss and Kenda Klevar in 35 on my PW. All set at 35/30. When fully loaded, I'll bump it up to about 45.
Going by the load of inflation tables, I should be running 30/25 empty on my PW. But the tires look too flat and I don't like it . Unless I'm going off road and need to air down.

In our 5500 lb off road race truck running 40" BFG race tires, we only run between 25 and 27, depending on the terrain in Baja
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So first off, thank you for pointing the tables out to me, I had no idea they existed. It's very useful information to have with carrying different loads for trips vs daily driving. How I read the tables is that that's the amount of weight the tire can handle at that pressure and not that that's the pressure you should be running with that weight on board. With your race truck running 40s while hauling ass off road, low tire pressure makes sense to absorb some shock while maintaining a good contact patch for traction.

All that being said, I'll play with the pressures to see if I can make what I'm happy with better from the experience you shared with me.
 
jsalbre said:
The tire definitely doesn’t recommend 50 PSI cold. It recommends 50 PSI cold at max load. The tire manufacturer has charts that list the proper inflation by weight.

Running far outside of that recommended pressure will result in increased wear and decreased control.
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You're right it does word it that way, not the way I had said it previously, thanks for the correction.

As I was saying to crusty, the language I found in the tables from Toyo seem to point to the tires ability to carry a certain weight at a certain pressure, not necessarily a recommended pressure for that weight or range of weight for that matter. As in if each tire is carrying more than that weight it can't go below that tire pressure.

So far my tires are wearing evenly and at an expected rate. As for the control I find the truck more compliant at my road pressure of 50 (which ends up being 56-58 after an hour on the highway), whereas my FSR pressures of 30 makes steering inputs feel more suggestive than direct on short runs between trailheads or FSRs up north. Our trucks aren't go carts by any means but that doesn't mean it couldn't be better, so as I mentioned to crusty I will play with the pressures a bit to see how it feels.
 
Mine increase about 5 PSI when hot.

35s at 60 PSI are rated to carry about 3000 Lbs, so twice the weight of the rear axle load.
Manufactures put a PSI on there which is for the maximum weight the vehicle can carry, plus the weight of the truck. It's a legal thing.
It's all due to the Firestone fiasco when people were running at a lower unsafe pressure and cars were flipping under the right circumstance. It was basically a bunch of BS and made a bunch of lawyers rich. So now tire shops put the max pressure in and tell you to run that due to legal reasons to cover their butts.
Trying running about 10 PSI less and see how it feels.
Also with the pressures you are running, look at the outer edge of the tire and see if it's actually touching the ground. At those pressures, mine weren't
As far as our race tires, they will gain anywhere from 10 to 15 PSI when we do a tire change.
I was the tire changer on the race truck during the races and would check pressures after the tires came off
 
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It's amazing how much engineering goes into the tires. Since BFG has been our tire sponsor for over 30 years they do a lot of testing with our owner/drive and the truck. Often there would be a BFG engineer in our pit. Hed record tire pressure, temp and condition when they came off the race truck. He would also record ground temp, air tem, moisture in the air and dew point. And at times, the tires were sent back to them after the race
 
That's really cool you have the opportunity to work with a company like that. That would be really cool data to look over. To see how the natural world affects something many people take for granted under extreme performance circumstances would be really sweet!

I've got a good on-board air set up so I'll be able to do some out and back testing in relatively similar conditions.

Back to the shocks I had mentioned earlier, the 5160s, it seems that there is only a few extra ounces of oil in the reservoir when it's cold and the rest nitrogen like you said. Arguably doesn't seem worth double the money for that small amount of oil dealing with more heat. Wouldn't the properties of Nitrogen help keep the oil cool as well? They aren't touching but there would be heat transfer through the piston in the reservoir.

Just thinking out loud!
 
Had the same feeling around 35,000 miles.
New Carli track bar took care of it (was torn between a Carli and a Thuren at the time - I'm sure the Thuren will also work well on the front as I have a Thuren on the rear now).
Now at almost 95,000 miles, still no issue.
 
MAKwagon said:
That's really cool you have the opportunity to work with a company like that. That would be really cool data to look over. To see how the natural world affects something many people take for granted under extreme performance circumstances would be really sweet!

I've got a good on-board air set up so I'll be able to do some out and back testing in relatively similar conditions.

Back to the shocks I had mentioned earlier, the 5160s, it seems that there is only a few extra ounces of oil in the reservoir when it's cold and the rest nitrogen like you said. Arguably doesn't seem worth double the money for that small amount of oil dealing with more heat. Wouldn't the properties of Nitrogen help keep the oil cool as well? They aren't touching but there would be heat transfer through the piston in the reservoir.

Just thinking out loud!
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I can't justify double the cost for little to no gain.
They pressureize the shocks to keep the oil from caviating as the piston cycles. There's a video on you tube that shows the effect.
I'm no expert, but here's my thoughts from what I know about gasses and some research
They use nitrogen as it has no oxygen in it. It's inert. So as it goes thru it's heat cycles, there is no moisture in it to be released, there by preventing rust/ corrosion inside the tube. The nitrogen provides no cooling effect as it heats and cools as it goes thru the cycles. The aluminum can provided some heat disapation. If you ever look at some of the big 3 and 4 inch shocks and their resis used for racing, you will see fins on the resis for heat disapation.
 
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PJElko said:
Had the same feeling around 35,000 miles.
New Carli track bar took care of it (was torn between a Carli and a Thuren at the time - I'm sure the Thuren will also work well on the front as I have a Thuren on the rear now).
Now at almost 95,000 miles, still no issue.
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I did Carli front as it was adjustable and I was able to perfectly center the axle at ride height. Did Thuren on the rear.
 
PJElko said:
Had the same feeling around 35,000 miles.
New Carli track bar took care of it (was torn between a Carli and a Thuren at the time - I'm sure the Thuren will also work well on the front as I have a Thuren on the rear now).
Now at almost 95,000 miles, still no issue.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I had Thuren front and rear in the cart. The extra work involved with the rear, being uncertain that the wallowing was track bar related, that the Rough Country bars were over the counter here and a ton cheaper..went that way, probably shouldn’t have.

FWIW…my issue was a feeling that the rear would dip out to the right, a weird rocking/oscillation that would manifest especially in a sweeping left hand turn at freeway speed and far worse when the road surface featured significant dips, bumps or other imperfection.
The truck would sometimes feel that way since fresh a little, it had gotten more pervasive and worse.
The front had started a severe rocking after road bump/dip etc., left to right and back at speed, worse at really high speed.
The rocking would start and then get progressively worse until scary unless I slowed it down.
 
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Rockcrawlindude said:
Reservoir shocks are much better. It’s not a marginal difference.
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Shock surplus says different for the 5100 vs 5160 shocks.

For hard core off roading and racing, yes there is a difference. For what most people do with their trucks, no it's not worth it as they are not pushing as hard to really use the shock.
 
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