Ram Heavy Duty Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

To Ceramic...or not to Ceramic....

Scubaz66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
564
Reaction score
799
Enjoyed reading the thread regarding Ceramic or not..... Thought I'd give my take on the product and attache pictures of a finished 2022 2500 Big Horn Black Edition.

Lots of hype regarding Ceramic coatings and as as Brutal HO identified, Graphene is the newest product on the shelves. While looking for a Wax product to put over my Ceramic Product I noticed every company with every product mentions Ceramic on their label. Even the self serving car wash in my town tries to up sale Ceramic in their wash for an additional charge.

I'm sure we have Chemical Engineers here on the forum.... I'd really like their take on these products.

Took delivery in Jan so because of snow and salt on the roads couldn't get to the project for a few weeks. Feb gave us a week with temps in the mid 60's. Perfect Weather for detailing a truck. Day one included a drive through the touchless car wash. Just a basic wash because I wanted a clean truck without added chemicals or waxes.

Took the truck home and wiped it down with a bucket of hot water and a microfiber towel to remove all the dirt and scum the car wash left behind, then proceeded to polish the paint with a 6" orbital hand buffer. This process took me about 5 hours, but I wanted to ensure the paint was ready for Ceramic. I'm one of the guys that likes to baby my ride and I don't use my truck for construction. I then started applying the Turtle Wax Ceramic Spray and buffing it out with a second microfiber towel until all streaks were gone and I had a nice flat mirrored surface. See the attached pictures. Took me about 2 hours to apply the Ceramic Spray. Yes! I already know it's not a true Ceramic coating according to the professional Detailer's who do this for a living and want your hard earned dollars in their pockets instead of yours. I've been detailing my own vehicles since 1972 so I've used hundreds of different products and Turtle Wax Hard Shell Paste has always been my go to product, but at my age I'm looking for something a little easier to apply and remove. I DO NOT work for Turtle Wax nor do I endorse their products. Just happens to the the one I felt got the best reviews on U-Tube.

I waited a couple days and applied a second coat of the Ceramic Spray as per the directions (24 hours). The Ceramic coating has been holding up quite nice after several washes and my trucks sits outside because it doesn't fit in my garage. Yes! Truck was wiped down prior to the second coat to remove any dust or pollen that may have accumulated overnight.

About a week ago I used the Touchless Car Wash to remove some heavy dirt from being out at my sisters farm. Muddy Road! LOL When I wiped down my truck I used the Ceramic Spray as I wiped the water that had beaded up and didn't sheet off the truck. This is what I considered a third coat or a touch up coat.

A few days later after sitting in a down pour at a friends house I started the drive back to my place and noticed the water was beading well, but the water wasn't sheeting and being blown off the truck.. I posted my comment on a Turtle Wax Users Group on FB and received many answers. I concluded the Ceramic Spray was doing its job to protect the paint, but there wasn't enough slickness in the Ceramic to allow the water to sheet. I've purchased the Graphene Wax Brutal HO mentioned and have spent the day applying. According to the directions I can also use this product as a maintenance or a TopCoat Product. It does seem to have more slickness to it than the Ceramic Spray, maybe because it has Wax in it.

As picky as I am on the condition and looks of my vehicles (OCD'd) I'm very satisfied with how the products work. I've got $40 in product and materials as well as less than 12 hours in the entire process with a second coat. Not including the Graphene Wax Procuct I purchased today for $26. I also know the whereabouts of every tiny scratch and rock chip on my truck. The Ceramic Coating will not keep your vehicle from being scratched as I noticed a few tiny hairline scratches here and there. Nothing that won't buff out.

I'll do another Polish and Buff come October to prepare for the winter months as well as another couple coats of Ceramic Spray. May try a different brand to compare products.

All said and done I enjoy getting up close and personal with my truck so the labor intensive process wasn't bad and the costs surely outweighs the price of a Professional Ceramic Coating with the so called Professional Detailers. I'm not knocking the guys who do this for a living, they need to get paid for their professional knowledge, but $1-2K I personally think is too much.

So! If you don't mind a few hours of labor and getting to know your truck, I'd say this is a great DIY project most anyone who can read and understand instructions can accomplish. Take the other $900-$1800 and treat yourself to a nice little vacation, use it to buy that nice set of wheels or or save it for a couple tanks of fuel..... LOL
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1592.jpg
    IMG_1592.jpg
    369.6 KB · Views: 45
  • IMG_1593.jpg
    IMG_1593.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 42
  • IMG_1597.jpg
    IMG_1597.jpg
    631.5 KB · Views: 42
  • IMG_1599.jpg
    IMG_1599.jpg
    382.7 KB · Views: 42

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,033
Reaction score
21,374
Location
Douglas County, CO
I'll do another Polish and Buff come October to prepare for the winter months as well as another couple coats of Ceramic Spray. May try a different brand to compare products.

Many still use the TW ICE as a topcoat on Ceramic/Graphene for the sheeting. TW says all their products are "chemically" compatible and can be used together as desired.
 

Scubaz66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
564
Reaction score
799
Many still use the TW ICE as a topcoat on Ceramic/Graphene for the sheeting. TW says all their products are "chemically" compatible and can be used together as desired.
Thanks Brutal HO! Good to know!
 

2500Ram

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
228
Reaction score
233
Location
Maryland
I unknowingly bought something with graphene in it...didn't think twice about it just wanted a wipe and shine type product. It was ordered online so I really just thought I was getting a Meguiars style shine enhancer. I don't really care about anything but shiny and protected like wax. This graphene shows up and I spray it on a panel and notice its basically like water. Theres a ton of gray particles in the bottle. They are insoluble particles. It didn't do anything lol. So I try it on an old faded machine we have...nothing. Same as water. I am confused what it was supposed to do or did I use it wrong? Do you heat these things before applying with a paint brush? Seems unlikely heat would be involved because its packaged in a plastic spray bottle and the modern consumer couldn't handle that without burning their home down in the process. Should I try a different product or just stick to wash/polish/wax?
 

Scubaz66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
564
Reaction score
799
I unknowingly bought something with graphene in it...didn't think twice about it just wanted a wipe and shine type product. It was ordered online so I really just thought I was getting a Meguiars style shine enhancer. I don't really care about anything but shiny and protected like wax. This graphene shows up and I spray it on a panel and notice its basically like water. Theres a ton of gray particles in the bottle. They are insoluble particles. It didn't do anything lol. So I try it on an old faded machine we have...nothing. Same as water. I am confused what it was supposed to do or did I use it wrong? Do you heat these things before applying with a paint brush? Seems unlikely heat would be involved because its packaged in a plastic spray bottle and the modern consumer couldn't handle that without burning their home down in the process. Should I try a different product or just stick to wash/polish/wax?
WASH, POLISH AND WAX!!

I also purchase a bottle of TW Flex Wax with Graphene infused product. Did my truck a couple days ago. It went on and was buffed out much like the Ceramic Spray product I used back in February of this year. I agree your comment regarding the grey insoluble particles. I vigorously shook the bottle as per directions during application because the nozzle kept getting clogged.

I liked the ease of doing my ride with the TW Ceramic Spray and the mirror paint results it provided however, I wasn't satisfied with the beading process. It beads water very well, but doesn't allow the beads to group and sheet off the vehicle. This spells disaster in areas where the local water supply is hard water because as the sun evaporates the water it will leave those nasty water spots that are a pain to remove. I lived in Phoenix, AZ for 15 years and know the damage hard water can do to a paint job if you don't have a good coat of wax on your ride.

I've been told by the Face Book TW Community I need to apply a wax over the Ceramic coating to cause the surface to become slippery so the water will sheet. This tells me all my truck really needed was a few good coats of a major wax product like a Carnauba based wax. I used TW Hard Shell for 40+ years and every vehicle I've owned looked as good the day I sold it as it was when new, minus a few paint chips and scratches which no liquid or paste product can stop.

My personal opinion: These new Ceramic/Graphene infused products are just the hype. The old fashion Wax products still do the best job of protecting your paint. Use a good Polish to remove the build up of accumulated road grime, then apply a good coat of wax. Do this 2-4 times a year and you'll be happy with the shine and protection it produces. Use a spray on wax with a wet vehicle as you dry after each wash.

These new spray on waxes and detailers are the bomb now-a-days because they don't leave a white residue in the nooks and cannies that must be removed with a brushing.

Again! This is only "MY" opinion based on 50+ years of detailing vehicles. If you like the Ceramic or the Graphene infused products or are willing to pay $1-2K to let someone else do you vehicle by all means go for it! The Sun will destroy pretty much anything it touches, if you don't take care of it.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,033
Reaction score
21,374
Location
Douglas County, CO
I unknowingly bought something with graphene in it...didn't think twice about it just wanted a wipe and shine type product. It was ordered online so I really just thought I was getting a Meguiars style shine enhancer. I don't really care about anything but shiny and protected like wax. This graphene shows up and I spray it on a panel and notice its basically like water. Theres a ton of gray particles in the bottle. They are insoluble particles. It didn't do anything lol. So I try it on an old faded machine we have...nothing. Same as water. I am confused what it was supposed to do or did I use it wrong? Do you heat these things before applying with a paint brush? Seems unlikely heat would be involved because its packaged in a plastic spray bottle and the modern consumer couldn't handle that without burning their home down in the process. Should I try a different product or just stick to wash/polish/wax?

Sounds like it was at one time frozen and the product separated.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,033
Reaction score
21,374
Location
Douglas County, CO
WASH, POLISH AND WAX!!

I also purchase a bottle of TW Flex Wax with Graphene infused product. Did my truck a couple days ago. It went on and was buffed out much like the Ceramic Spray product I used back in February of this year. I agree your comment regarding the grey insoluble particles. I vigorously shook the bottle as per directions during application because the nozzle kept getting clogged.

I liked the ease of doing my ride with the TW Ceramic Spray and the mirror paint results it provided however, I wasn't satisfied with the beading process. It beads water very well, but doesn't allow the beads to group and sheet off the vehicle. This spells disaster in areas where the local water supply is hard water because as the sun evaporates the water it will leave those nasty water spots that are a pain to remove. I lived in Phoenix, AZ for 15 years and know the damage hard water can do to a paint job if you don't have a good coat of wax on your ride.

I've been told by the Face Book TW Community I need to apply a wax over the Ceramic coating to cause the surface to become slippery so the water will sheet. This tells me all my truck really needed was a few good coats of a major wax product like a Carnauba based wax. I used TW Hard Shell for 40+ years and every vehicle I've owned looked as good the day I sold it as it was when new, minus a few paint chips and scratches which no liquid or paste product can stop.

My personal opinion: These new Ceramic/Graphene infused products are just the hype. The old fashion Wax products still do the best job of protecting your paint. Use a good Polish to remove the build up of accumulated road grime, then apply a good coat of wax. Do this 2-4 times a year and you'll be happy with the shine and protection it produces. Use a spray on wax with a wet vehicle as you dry after each wash.

These new spray on waxes and detailers are the bomb now-a-days because they don't leave a white residue in the nooks and cannies that must be removed with a brushing.

Again! This is only "MY" opinion based on 50+ years of detailing vehicles. If you like the Ceramic or the Graphene infused products or are willing to pay $1-2K to let someone else do you vehicle by all means go for it! The Sun will destroy pretty much anything it touches, if you don't take care of it.

I've been very happy with the results using TW spray on hybrid ceramic. It also works on ABS/plastics without leaving a residue. Seems too many don't read the directions and put it on too thick, causing streaks.

For long term ABS protection, I put on G-Techniq C4 first. That stuff is expensive but truly gives amazing results and also brings back old faded trim.

Properly developed modern chemical formulations really do work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CFE

Cseybert

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
453
Reaction score
437
Just picked up my truck from Mark Dodge a couple weeks ago. Hopefully you guys are waiting to put wax and graphene on the paint has to cure minimum 60 days according to all Paint manufactures baked or not. If anyone knows anything different let me know?
 

Scubaz66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
564
Reaction score
799
I've been very happy with the results using TW spray on hybrid ceramic. It also works on ABS/plastics without leaving a residue. Seems too many don't read the directions and put it on too thick, causing streaks.

For long term ABS protection, I put on G-Techniq C4 first. That stuff is expensive but truly gives amazing results and also brings back old faded trim.

Properly developed modern chemical formulations really do work.
I've been happy with the results of the TW Ceramic Spray with the exception of the sheeting process. I wanted to attach a video of my truck and I doing 55-65mph and the water just sitting in place but I don't think the Forum allows for video.

I just used the TW Flex Seal with Graphene you mentioned earlier on my Peace Officer Blue 2013 Harley Ultra Classic. If your familiar with the Touring Class of the newer Harley's there is a lot of plastic involved. Bat Wing, Tour Pax, Saddle Bags and a couple Side Covers. You are 100% correct this stuff is amazing on plastic!!

Of the two products I personally think the Graphene Infused product did a better job even though the particals seem to clog up the spray bottle! This stuff seems to be way slicker than the Ceramic Spray. I think I'll use the TW Flex with Graphene as my maintenance topper on both the Truck and the Harley and see how the product holds up.

I usually don't follow the hype on new products until they are tested and proven by main stream. I once purchased a frying pan from one of those informational commercials and tried frying scrambled eggs. I had to use a scrubbing pad to remove the egg from the pan after letting it soak for 30 minutes in Dawn. I also have a set of Ceramic Coated pots/pans that absolutely noting will stick to.

If you ave the ability to post my short 30 second video I'll try sending it to you so you can see what I'm talking about regarding the beads not sheeting. May or may not help other members to make decisions on what products to purchase.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,033
Reaction score
21,374
Location
Douglas County, CO
If you ave the ability to post my short 30 second video I'll try sending it to you so you can see what I'm talking about regarding the beads not sheeting. May or may not help other members to make decisions on what products to purchase.

Please don't.

You can put in a link to any supported video type:

1652491287316.png

Not sure where this is on tapatalk if used.
 
Last edited:

Scubaz66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
564
Reaction score
799
Please don't.

You can put in a link to any supported video type:

View attachment 37742

Not sure where this is on tapatalk if used.
Thanks! I tried again to input this video file taken with my IPhone 12 Pro. It's a .MOV file and doesn't look like the Forum will accept it. It isn't a problem. Have a Great Day! I also see the system may still be slow do to maintenance so that too could be a reason.
 

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,033
Reaction score
21,374
Location
Douglas County, CO
Thanks! I tried again to input this video file taken with my IPhone 12 Pro. It's a .MOV file and doesn't look like the Forum will accept it. It isn't a problem. Have a Great Day! I also see the system may still be slow do to maintenance so that too could be a reason.

You have to put it online.

1652564985136.png

5thgenrams has been experiencing a ton of outages so there's new servers going in...
 

Scubaz66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
564
Reaction score
799
You have to put it online.

View attachment 37760

5thgenrams has been experiencing a ton of outages so there's new servers going in...

You have to put it online.

View attachment 37760

5thgenrams has been experiencing a ton of outages so there's new servers going in...
Thanks Brutal HO! You're one of the best Admins I've dealt with in years. Thanks for all you do to keep the members in order and the provide assistance when needed! You're the Best!
 

2500Ram

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
228
Reaction score
233
Location
Maryland
Sounds like it was at one time frozen and the product separated.
That could be one explanation for sure. There is no way those particles were gonna spray out nor were they dissolving back into the liquid.
 

DebH

Active Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2021
Messages
77
Reaction score
211
My truck was built on Feb. 16 and sat waiting for a train ride for a while. Took delivery on April 11, 2022. The last week of April I left it for 4 days at Classic Details and had the entire front end covered with EXPEL PPF, the entire truck SB3 5 year Ceramic coated and windows/interior coated. The ease of care is well worth the expense in the long run. My total was $4,600.
CloseLeftHoodMetallicApril282022.jpgCloseLeftRearApril282022.jpgDashRightSideApril282022.jpgInteriorfrontApril282022.jpgLeftfrontApril282022.jpgLeftrearApril282022.jpgPPFinstalledfront.jpgPPFinstallfender.jpgPPFinstallfront.jpgDashRightSideApril282022.jpgFrontinsideshop.jpgInteriorfrontApril282022.jpg
 
Last edited:

Brutal_HO

The Mad Irishman
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
12,033
Reaction score
21,374
Location
Douglas County, CO
Just picked up my truck from Mark Dodge a couple weeks ago. Hopefully you guys are waiting to put wax and graphene on the paint has to cure minimum 60 days according to all Paint manufactures baked or not. If anyone knows anything different let me know?

I'm going to let mine cure for a couple years before I get around to the PPF and tint.
 

2500Ram

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
228
Reaction score
233
Location
Maryland
Just picked up my truck from Mark Dodge a couple weeks ago. Hopefully you guys are waiting to put wax and graphene on the paint has to cure minimum 60 days according to all Paint manufactures baked or not. If anyone knows anything different let me know?
I got the optional Chrysler paint cure - its an awesome package where they leave your truck in the Mexican and Texan sun for 63 days. Super hard paint when it arrives. No cost for the option.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top