Soliciting Opinions on SO/HO Cummins

[wyvern]

Greetings all.

I'm looking to submit a build sheet for my first new diesel pickup. I've spent a great deal of time lurking these forums and as a result I'm feeling a bit apprehensive ordering a 2023 high output truck as a result of the widespread 2022 Aisin failures and the alleged early 2022 high output motor blowups.

Being someone who drives 800 miles one way frequently enough to justify the 50 gallon fuel tank, I am somewhat sensitive to MPG, which seems to sway in favor of the SO motor. However, I am very used to Aisin products and in all of my applications they have never once let me down. I really wish I could get the Aisin product with the SO, but since this is impossible I'm wondering if the risk is worth the reward in this case. Have the issues been addressed for new builds? It seems the word is still mostly out on the 2023 models.

Thanks for taking a look, happy to be a new member here.

 

[Cseybert]

Loved my 2019 standard output 18 miles a gallon all day long in the hill country. My 22 I get 16 miles per gallon in the hill country.

 

[AH64ID]

The Aisin issues are fixed and I wouldn’t hesitate to order another Aisin.

The high mileage failures are hard to really consider since not many SO’s, HO’s, or CC motors have that many miles on them. From what I recall hearing failed those parts aren’t HO specific. Run the correct oil and don’t idle it excessively, then just enjoy the truck.

Loved my 2019 standard output 18 miles a gallon all day long in the hill country. My 22 I get 16 miles per gallon in the hill country.

You’re also paying the dually tax on the 22, so 16 is actually pretty good.

 

[wyvern]

Loved my 2019 standard output 18 miles a gallon all day long in the hill country. My 22 I get 16 miles per gallon in the hill country.

16 MPG with the HO Dually is still pretty impressive! I'm definitely looking to go SRW + 8ft box, which I think based on your numbers could potentially do at or around 20MPG on the freeway.

 

[AH64ID]

16 MPG with the HO Dually is still pretty impressive! I'm definitely looking to go SRW + 8ft box, which I think based on your numbers could potentially do at or around 20MPG on the freeway.

I don’t have many empty freeway tanks on my 22, but breaking 20 at 70 seems reasonable depending on the terrain, wind, etc. I did a 70 mile trip last night with up to 68-70 mph, couple towns, lots of stop signs and the computer said 21.1. My average error on the computer mileage is 8%.

 

[wyvern]

The Aisin issues are fixed and I wouldn’t hesitate to order another Aisin.

The high mileage failures are hard to really consider since not many SO’s, HO’s, or CC motors have that many miles on them. From what I recall hearing failed those parts aren’t HO specific. Run the correct oil and don’t idle it excessively, then just enjoy the truck.



You’re also paying the dually tax on the 22, so 16 is actually pretty good.

Thanks for the encouragement, @AH64ID. I feel like when you're spending this amount of cash it's easy to get caught in logic loops and never make a solid decision. Very happy to hear the issues are resolved with Aisin, I wouldn't want any other transmission behind my new Cummins.

I don’t have many empty freeway tanks on my 22, but breaking 20 at 70 seems reasonable depending on the terrain, wind, etc. I did a 70 mile trip last night with up to 68-70 mph, couple towns, lots of stop signs and the computer said 21.1. My average error on the computer mileage is 8%.

Very happy to hear this should be possible. 50*20 = nearly 1,000 miles of range on one tank, which is what I'm most excited for. Despise having to stop to fuel up. I'm not trying to hot rod this truck and am pretty easy on the throttle. Definitely optioning Adaptive Cruise on this bad boy to take some of the strain away on these long drives.

 

[tchur1]

I second what others have stated about AISIN issues being resolved. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another, I love mine. I do have some long highway trips and even with 37s can get ~20MPG on the highway at about 70. Anytime I go over 70 though MPGs drop really quickly. At ~80 I get like 16-17.

You didnt mention much about your use case other than driving long distances. How much and how often are you towing?

 

[mbarber84]

After having tracked and documented the Aisin failures since January, I have high confidence the issue with the flawed snap rings has been fully addressed at this point. I wouldn’t hesitate to order an HO / Aisin truck. My personal opinion: buy the HO / Aisin. You’re going to be dropping $100k on a truck. I can’t justify spending that amount of money on a truck that is less capable. Buy the truck that gives you the option and the ability to use the truck at its maximum potential if needed. The Aisin is far more reliable and better built to handle the torque of the Cummins. I have owned two Aisin trucks in the past five years and have utterly enjoyed them both. I personally feel the complaints you hear from some about the harshness of the shifting are greatly over exaggerated. Both of mine have been very smooth and ultra reliable. I think if you look at the service history of each transmission, you’ll see definitively that there have been far fewer issues with the Aisin overall. The 68 has been plagued with issues pretty much since its introduction. Although it can prove to be reliable under normal use, I don’t believe it’s the best option given the amount of issues those have demonstrated. There is a whole aftermarket empire that has been built up around rebuilding and modifying that transmission to make it more robust and reliable.

In terms of the engine failures, I think those are hard to pin down due to the complexity of the engine and the nature of how each user maintains and operates their truck. There also seems to be little factual evidence to support that the HO is more prone to failure over the SO. There have been some trucks experiencing premature valvetrain failure but I believe that a good portion of those can be attributed to users (or dealers) using 15w40 in an engine not designed for that weight of oil.

Get the most truck for your money. That’s going to be the HO / Aisin.

 

[IndyRamMega]

If you're worried about mpg's....you're doing it wrong....

 

[John Jensen]

Greetings all.

I'm looking to submit a build sheet for my first new diesel pickup. I've spent a great deal of time lurking these forums and as a result I'm feeling a bit apprehensive ordering a 2023 high output truck as a result of the widespread 2022 Aisin failures and the alleged early 2022 high output motor blowups.

Being someone who drives 800 miles one way frequently enough to justify the 50 gallon fuel tank, I am somewhat sensitive to MPG, which seems to sway in favor of the SO motor. However, I am very used to Aisin products and in all of my applications they have never once let me down. I really wish I could get the Aisin product with the SO, but since this is impossible I'm wondering if the risk is worth the reward in this case. Have the issues been addressed for new builds? It seems the word is still mostly out on the 2023 models.

Thanks for taking a look, happy to be a new member here.

It seems like you've done your homework and have the answers, now it boils down to what you want. I knew an SO would get better mileage but I wanted an Aisin and a 50 gal tank so that's what I bought. I've never considered mileage when buying a truck. My 2020 HO is the best truck I've ever owned, a great truck!

 

[CaptainMike]

I've never met a truck owner who wished they had less power and torque.

 

[wyvern]

After having tracked and documented the Aisin failures since January, I have high confidence the issue with the flawed snap rings has been fully addressed at this point. I wouldn’t hesitate to order an HO / Aisin truck. My personal opinion: buy the HO / Aisin. You’re going to be dropping $100k on a truck. I can’t justify spending that amount of money on a truck that is less capable. Buy the truck that gives you the option and the ability to use the truck at its maximum potential if needed. The Aisin is far more reliable and better built to handle the torque of the Cummins. I have owned two Aisin trucks in the past five years and have utterly enjoyed them both. I personally feel the complaints you hear from some about the harshness of the shifting are greatly over exaggerated. Both of mine have been very smooth and ultra reliable. I think if you look at the service history of each transmission, you’ll see definitively that there have been far fewer issues with the Aisin overall. The 68 has been plagued with issues pretty much since its introduction. Although it can prove to be reliable under normal use, I don’t believe it’s the best option given the amount of issues those have demonstrated. There is a whole aftermarket empire that has been built up around rebuilding and modifying that transmission to make it more robust and reliable.

In terms of the engine failures, I think those are hard to pin down due to the complexity of the engine and the nature of how each user maintains and operates their truck. There also seems to be little factual evidence to support that the HO is more prone to failure over the SO. There have been some trucks experiencing premature valvetrain failure but I believe that a good portion of those can be attributed to users (or dealers) using 15w40 in an engine not designed for that weight of oil.

Get the most truck for your money. That’s going to be the HO / Aisin.

Thank you for the response sir, this was EXACTLY my logic as I was going through the spec sheet for my truck. The price on these vehicles means any compromise feels much worse than it normally would. If the issues are fully addressed, I will definitely be going with the Aisin. I would like to use this truck as an asset for the next 10 years if possible.

It seems like you've done your homework and have the answers, now it boils down to what you want. I knew an SO would get better mileage but I wanted an Aisin and a 50 gal tank so that's what I bought. I've never considered mileage when buying a truck. My 2020 HO is the best truck I've ever owned, a great truck!

Haha, yes sir. I've been at this since March and decided only recently to put a fully custom order in on account of a lack of trucks with my specific build specifications available on dealer lots. The 50 gallon tank is a must for me, how has your range been with it?

 

[John Jensen]

Thank you for the response sir, this was EXACTLY my logic as I was going through the spec sheet for my truck. The price on these vehicles means any compromise feels much worse than it normally would. If the issues are fully addressed, I will definitely be going with the Aisin. I would like to use this truck as an asset for the next 10 years if possible.

Haha, yes sir. I've been at this since March and decided only recently to put a fully custom order in on account of a lack of trucks with my specific build specifications available on dealer lots. The 50 gallon tank is a must for me, how has your range been with it?

Range depends on the mileage. I'm averaging 16mpg on my trips., 16mpg x 50 gal = 800 miles.
On my trips, my fuel stops are 325 - 575 miles. I've never tested the range but it's really nice to know I have extra if needed.

 

[gimmie11s]

Loved my 2019 standard output 18 miles a gallon all day long in the hill country. My 22 I get 16 miles per gallon in the hill country.

I had a '16 SO 2500 and now a '21 DRW 3500 HO. My mpg fall right inline with what's posted above on both trucks.

I love the HO/Aisin, no complaints. Ive knocked down 18 with it, but average is closer to 16 as noted above.

That is all about to change though as she's currently getting a 2.5" Carli level and 6 35" tires lol. Oh well.

 

[mbarber84]

The 50 gallon tank was one of the best options I ordered on my 2022 HO DRW. Not only does it provide a substantial increase in range, but it also lets me take advantage of fuel prices. I live in SW PA and have access to both Ohio and West Virginia within a short distance. I regularly frequent both states for farm business. Many times over the past year the price of diesel was over a dollar cheaper at one of those neighboring states. It was nice to save $50 or more every tank for a few months.

 

[wyvern]

Range depends on the mileage. I'm averaging 16mpg on my trips., 16mpg x 50 gal = 800 miles.
On my trips, my fuel stops are 325 - 575 miles. I've never tested the range but it's really nice to know I have extra if needed.

It's excellent knowing you can keep on trucking and not have to constantly babysit the fuel gauge. Hoping if I go easy on the throttle I can get low 20s, but 800 miles of range is still pretty much the best I can think of in any vehicle I'd consider anyway.

I had a '16 SO 2500 and now a '21 DRW 3500 HO. My mpg fall right inline with what's posted above on both trucks.

I love the HO/Aisin, no complaints. Ive knocked down 18 with it, but average is closer to 16 as noted above.

That is all about to change though as she's currently getting a 2.5" Carli level and 6 35" tires lol. Oh well.

Haha, wow! That thing is going to be an absolute beast. Would love to see how massive that rig is once the work is all done. Do you primarily tow? Is this mainly just for cosmetics?

The 50 gallon tank was one of the best options I ordered on my 2022 HO DRW. Not only does it provide a substantial increase in range, but it also lets me take advantage of fuel prices. I live in SW PA and have access to both Ohio and West Virginia within a short distance. I regularly frequent both states for farm business. Many times over the past year the price of diesel was over a dollar cheaper at one of those neighboring states. It was nice to save $50 or more every tank for a few months.

Options are power! Glad to see another rust belt friend here. I am originally from NE Ohio and have a home there. I currently reside in NH. I'm frequently driving between the two states for both family and work reasons, hence my obsession with 50 gallon tank option, haha!

 

[henrys]

'22 3500 SRW Laramie mega cab 6.7 SO. I get 19-22 mpg unloaded on the freeway running 75-80mph which is really impressive to me for such a heavy truck. I went with SO because I don't tow heavy, I carry a heavy truck camper which doesn't put much load on the drivetrain at all. If I was going to be pulling heavy I would have gone with HO.

 

[jetrinka]

Before my PW seduced me at the local dealer I had a 21 HO on order. I ordered it for the Aisin and a long bed for the 50 gallon tank.

 

[gimmie11s]

Haha, wow! That thing is going to be an absolute beast. Would love to see how massive that rig is once the work is all done. Do you primarily tow? Is this mainly just for cosmetics?

TBH, what it does most is sit in my garage. That said, it's primary duty is towing our 14k toybox, but it did it with such ease at stock height/tires, I figured I might as well make it look as good as it performs lol.

Ill have some pics up this weekend. Gonna be pretty sharp.

 

[BikePilot]

I would not hesitate to do the HO. The Aisin is a workhorse and more power is always nice. I think mpg will be close enough not to matter if you aren't using that extra power.