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Ram 2500 brakes

SteelWagon88 said:
Same truck and the pedal travels almost to the floor before it slows truck.
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So I replaced the calipers and the master cylinder. I'm confident it was the master cylinder but either way it has gotten rid of the inconsistency in the break pedal. They still don't engage at the top like I'd like them to but there is now resistance and it doesn't sink to the floor nor does it nearly bottom out anymore.
 
jsalbre said:
You’ve got it backwards. The software isn’t causing more travel most of the time, it’s reducing the travel when ACC is engaged by “prefilling” the brakes to bring the pads closer to the rotors. It’s basically stepping on the brakes part way to reduce reaction time, because the system assumes that while ACC is running that the reason you’re most likely to step on the brakes is a panic stop. Disabling ESP and ACC will make it so it’s never “extra firm”.
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So what do the rest of us do if we don’t have ACC equipped but still have a soft pedal? This document from FCA means nothing to us without ACC. I agree with the guy who said that the brakes need to be firm at the top regardless. I know of a TSB I read on AllData about the ABS module needing to be flashed, but I think the previous owner of this truck had that done already. But to no avail, I still don’t have a firm pedal.
 
SteelWagon88 said:
So what do the rest of us do if we don’t have ACC equipped but still have a soft pedal? This document from FCA means nothing to us without ACC. I agree with the guy who said that the brakes need to be firm at the top regardless. I know of a TSB I read on AllData about the ABS module needing to be flashed, but I think the previous owner of this truck had that done already. But to no avail, I still don’t have a firm pedal.
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Mine's been in the dealer several times. Outside of leaving it with them for a month or more while they make a star case nothing was mentioned about flashing the ABS module. They did replace my abs module and had zero effect/change with the symptom, and I do not have active cruise control. Replacing the master cylinder made the pedal more consistent. I'm still not happy with it but it is way better than what it was. The brake pedal needs to engage within the first half to 1 inch of travel like any other truck. It's not normal for the pedal to travel halfway or more before you feel the brakes engaged. There's no adjustment on the booster, there are no leaks, it's not sucking air etc. I have made my local service manager and their director of operations aware of this form and the folks complaining about it. I have also called the Florida highway safety and submitted a complaint with them as well. More people need to do this in order to get a resolution. Otherwise it's going to wind up with a lawsuit like there was it for 2017 and 2018 2500 pickups.
 
Mattpwfl said:
So I replaced the calipers and the master cylinder. I'm confident it was the master cylinder but either way it has gotten rid of the inconsistency in the break pedal. They still don't engage at the top like I'd like them to but there is now resistance and it doesn't sink to the floor nor does it nearly bottom out anymore.
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That’s good to hear. It’s sad that since I’ve bought this truck I’ve had to replace the heater core and thermostat. Also, the parts availability of these trucks are extremely sparse which makes them EXTREMELY expensive. My 96 Ram that I’ve owned since 2014 needs less work and obviously parts are readily available and at a reasonable cost. It’s confusing to me why FCA or MOPAR won’t provide their consumers with affordable parts or even aftermarket vendors with the ability to provide them.
 
Mattpwfl said:
Mine's been in the dealer several times. Outside of leaving it with them for a month or more while they make a star case nothing was mentioned about flashing the ABS module. They did replace my abs module and had zero effect/change with the symptom, and I do not have active cruise control. Replacing the master cylinder made the pedal more consistent. I'm still not happy with it but it is way better than what it was. The brake pedal needs to engage within the first half to 1 inch of travel like any other truck. It's not normal for the pedal to travel halfway or more before you feel the brakes engaged. There's no adjustment on the booster, there are no leaks, it's not sucking air etc. I have made my local service manager and their director of operations aware of this form and the folks complaining about it. I have also called the Florida highway safety and submitted a complaint with them as well. More people need to do this in order to get a resolution. Otherwise it's going to wind up with a lawsuit like there was it for 2017 and 2018 2500 pickups.
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Yeah it’s sad that they’ve forgotten to listen to the folks who buy their products. Hopefully Tim can fix that.
 
SteelWagon88 said:
Yeah it’s sad that they’ve forgotten to listen to the folks who buy their products. Hopefully Tim can fix that.
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Yeah well I had mine in for this issue before it ran out of the bumper to bumper. It had to go back in 1,000 miles after it was out and the manufacturer refused to cover the ABS repair. Of course they ended up replacing the water pump under the powertrain. Cost me almost $1,000 for a rental that week because I have to have an equivalent truck to run my business. After lots of complaining they put a 3-year $36,000 mi extended warranty on it paid for by them but they said it wouldn't take care of any pre-existing conditions.

At this point their master mechanic was going to just throw parts at it and said the next thing on the list is the master cylinder. At that point I had already bought calipers so I just added that to the list. I will say though since replacing that the truck doesn't feel like it's nose diving anymore. The pedal definitely doesn't go to the floor although it feels like two or three inches of travel right off the top before it engages but it gets there fairly quick.

It definitely needs to come up higher and something needs to happen but unfortunately they clearly don't stand by their product and they're not interested in resolving it. Which is clearly the case with their 2017-18 lawsuit. And it may come to that again for these.
 
Mattpwfl said:
Yeah well I had mine in for this issue before it ran out of the bumper to bumper. It had to go back in 1,000 miles after it was out and the manufacturer refused to cover the ABS repair. Of course they ended up replacing the water pump under the powertrain. Cost me almost $1,000 for a rental that week because I have to have an equivalent truck to run my business. After lots of complaining they put a 3-year $36,000 mi extended warranty on it paid for by them but they said it wouldn't take care of any pre-existing conditions.

At this point their master mechanic was going to just throw parts at it and said the next thing on the list is the master cylinder. At that point I had already bought calipers so I just added that to the list. I will say though since replacing that the truck doesn't feel like it's nose diving anymore. The pedal definitely doesn't go to the floor although it feels like two or three inches of travel right off the top before it engages but it gets there fairly quick.

It definitely needs to come up higher and something needs to happen but unfortunately they clearly don't stand by their product and they're not interested in resolving it. Which is clearly the case with their 2017-18 lawsuit. And it may come to that again for these.
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I hope it does go to a lawsuit. And I hope they finally listen and realize we aren’t taking their **** anymore. These trucks aren’t getting cheaper and buyers are going to start demanding they get what they pay for. Because though I may have bought mine used, those who bought new 2025s at $70,000 or more won’t tolerate it. I wouldn’t.
 
SteelWagon88 said:
So what do the rest of us do if we don’t have ACC equipped but still have a soft pedal? This document from FCA means nothing to us without ACC. I agree with the guy who said that the brakes need to be firm at the top regardless. I know of a TSB I read on AllData about the ABS module needing to be flashed, but I think the previous owner of this truck had that done already. But to no avail, I still don’t have a firm pedal.
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There's nothing to do. The brakes are working as they were designed, and stop the trucks just fine. It's a big truck, not a small car, the brakes are different feeling. Yes, there's a bit of what feels like "play" at the very top of the pedal travel, but if you lift the tires off the ground (be safe, use jack stands!) and have someone press the pedal a little bit and you rotate a wheel. You'll feel drag. The brakes *are* engaging at the top, it's just gradual and gentle.
 
jsalbre said:
There's nothing to do. The brakes are working as they were designed, and stop the trucks just fine. It's a big truck, not a small car, the brakes are different feeling. Yes, there's a bit of what feels like "play" at the very top of the pedal travel, but if you lift the tires off the ground (be safe, use jack stands!) and have someone press the pedal a little bit and you rotate a wheel. You'll feel drag. The brakes *are* engaging at the top, it's just gradual and gentle.
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Brother, I understand it’s a “big truck”, I drive semis for a living and those brakes (albeit, air brakes) engage and are firm at the top. If these are “designed” to be soft and gradual, then what you’re saying is Ram don’t want the drivers of their trucks to have confidence in the braking performance of their vehicles. Which I find that hard to believe. Yes I also know they’re not high performance vehicles either, but any run of the mill truck aside from these “modern” trucks will be firm at the top… not just because they’re supposed to be, but because the manufacturers want their vehicles to give the driver confidence that the vehicle is doing what it’s supposed to… not leave you guessing if the magic is working. If I press the brakes in my semi or my mothers Jeep or my cousins Tahoe… it’s going to be firm with every application no different than the 96 Ram parked next to my 21 Ram. We just want consistency is all.
 
The brakes on these trucks are not good, at least on my ‘21 since new. I’ve made various comments/posts over the past 4 years/31k. Do they stop the truck? Yes. Are they confidence inspiring? Absolutely not, especially with my 5er in tow. It’s been to the dealer(was told I needed to drive the truck more….). It’s had pads and rotors replaced (running PowerStop goods now). The pedal sucks. You can “double clutch” it and the pedal feels a little better. Shouldn’t have to. Yes, like the chirp of the Hemi and that design flaw, I’ve just learned to deal with it. I’d love to see some corporate action on it. Just my $.02


Sent from me
 
I have 21 2500 6.4 i haven't had any issues with the brakes I just had a cherokee before I got my ram I just figured the pushing the break so far down was normal for a bigger truck mins lifted too....
 
adam11 said:
I have 21 2500 6.4 i haven't had any issues with the brakes I just had a cherokee before I got my ram I just figured the pushing the break so far down was normal for a bigger truck mins lifted too....
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I've owned an 18 and 22 Ram 2500. Is the brake pedal feel a little softer than some vehicles? Sure. But it never changes and the brakes do an awesome job, towing or not. Very similar to the GM 2500's I'd owned before. My buddy owns an F150 with what I consider touchy brakes. I'm sure I'd get used to them, but I'm not a fan.
 
Mattpwfl said:
I know that I am reviving an old post, and I have read through all of the comments on this issue on multiple forms. With that said it doesn't matter if it's a hydro boost or a vacuum boost The pedal should be firm and it should engage at the top. I have driven and owned several brand new HD trucks both gas and hydro boost and when working correctly they should be firm and at the top of the pedal.

So I have done some digging and this truck which is a 23 2500 with the 6.4l has obviously the same issue. It has been to the dealer and they confirmed the pedal didn't feel right so of course they bled it and actuated the ABS. The pedal firmed up until it sat. Once I picked it up it was right back to having a bunch of pedal travel. I have bled them myself before the visit to the dealer and actuated the ABS on a dirt road. All results are temporary as the pedal reverts right back to being soft until about halfway.

After a few weeks of research I have concluded that this is a software issue. To my knowledge RAM does not have an update to address this issue. The computer is operating off of algorithms based on driving habits and speed, all of which contribute to the pedal feel. Turning on cruise control and using the brakes to disengage it automatically firms the pedal up. Even three or four cycles through the brakes after cruise has been disabled. I disconnected the battery terminals and let it sit for about 5 or 10 minutes and I got 4 days of a nice firm pedal that engages up top. After that it went back to the inconsistent soft feel.

It is an extremely annoying engagement but what seems to be the more permanent fix is to make the software algorithm think that you're always about to jump on the brakes. After many breaking cycles coming off the gas rapidly and touching the brakes has given the pedal the most consistent feel since owning this truck. The fact that engaging and disengaging cruise control and disconnecting battery terminals changes the pedal feel just confirms that this is a software issue. The pedal should be firm and up top and it is as long as the algorithm has a reason to keep the pedal up high. I've had the most consistent luck with removing the foot from the gas pedal quickly and just easing on the brake pedal.

Ultimately, the only way RAM is going to address this issue is if enough people bring it to their attention. Personally I have created a case number with corporate. That was done before I came to the conclusion that software. There isn't a breaking system on the planet that would retain enough air to have to run that many bleed cycles unless it's sucking air from somewhere.
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saw a very similar post on Reddit. I had ABSOLUTELY NO problems with the brakes on my 21 RAM 2500 until the battery died, and I had to replace it. Right after that the pedal feel went to crap and now, while it stops fine, the pedal has to go all the way to the floor. I will try the cruise control thing and see if it firms up.. Thanks,
 
JoeCoz said:
saw a very similar post on Reddit. I had ABSOLUTELY NO problems with the brakes on my 21 RAM 2500 until the battery died, and I had to replace it. Right after that the pedal feel went to crap and now, while it stops fine, the pedal has to go all the way to the floor. I will try the cruise control thing and see if it firms up.. Thanks,
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The battery has nothing to do with the brakes and couldn’t possibly affect them. The cruise control does nothing to the brakes that will make any difference long term (as in after you turn cruise control off).
 
jsalbre said:
The battery has nothing to do with the brakes and couldn’t possibly affect them. The cruise control does nothing to the brakes that will make any difference long term (as in after you turn cruise control off).
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While I agree the battery has nothing to do with brakes nor should cruise de-activation firm up the pedal….something is amiss with these trucks braking systems and as “electronic” as they are I wouldn’t doubt it to be something software related as well.

The brakes work but are vastly different than other vehicles (I drive four other vehicles between work and home on the regular and all have a nice high/firm pedal).


Sent from me
 
jsalbre said:
The battery has nothing to do with the brakes and couldn’t possibly affect them. The cruise control does nothing to the brakes that will make any difference long term (as in after you turn cruise control off).
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Listen, I understand back in the old days before your computer ran your car, the battery had nothing to do with your brakes, but I had a GREAT brake pedal with PERFECT feel until I changed the battery and the system rebooted. They have bled my brakes, inspected my lines for leaks, checked the master cylinder and all are good, except now the pedal feels like $hit. When the truck is shut off, the brake pedal feels like it used to. Once I start it, it goes to mush. I have had it bled by my regular mechanic, and again at the dealership. Both were a failure at correcting the problem. I saw a post on another forum about running it hard on a gravel lot or road and jamming on the brakes a few times to activate the ABS and it may help find lingering air in the system because there are those who think vacuum bleeding sucks in air around the thread screws on the ABS unit... willing to try anything to get my old brake feel back.
 
JoeCoz said:
Listen, I understand back in the old days before your computer ran your car, the battery had nothing to do with your brakes, but I had a GREAT brake pedal with PERFECT feel until I changed the battery and the system rebooted. They have bled my brakes, inspected my lines for leaks, checked the master cylinder and all are good, except now the pedal feels like $hit. When the truck is shut off, the brake pedal feels like it used to. Once I start it, it goes to mush. I have had it bled by my regular mechanic, and again at the dealership. Both were a failure at correcting the problem. I saw a post on another forum about running it hard on a gravel lot or road and jamming on the brakes a few times to activate the ABS and it may help find lingering air in the system because there are those who think vacuum bleeding sucks in air around the thread screws on the ABS unit... willing to try anything to get my old brake feel back.
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I’m still following along. Keep us posted if and when anything changes.


Sent from me
 
whitexc said:
I’m still following along. Keep us posted if and when anything changes.


Sent from me
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All right you all I told you I was OCD and I got sick and tired of dealing with this issue. All the dealership was doing was throwing parts at it. It wasn't fixing it obviously. I noticed that every time I wash the truck or it rained the pedal would come back to the way it's supposed to feel. With that said I went through connectors and grounding straps to test to see which ones would make it react that way and lo and behold the three grounding straps that are all tied into the same harness that the ABS connector is in work corroded. Spraying those grounding straps gave me that same result so I pulled them and cleaned them. I used a scan tool to look at the primary circuit pressure and as I wiggled those grounds they would fluctuate. Cleaning them has made a solid difference although I am still getting some fluctuation it looks like the symptoms are from a faulty ground. The dealership at this point has absolutely no idea and they're not really interested in helping other than throwing parts at it especially when a Master tech told me to replace the master cylinder. Which in fact was bad because I was also having the symptoms where the truck felt like it was stopping with all fronts. But it didn't get rid of the inconsistent pedal change. I will continue to monitor with the scan tool and keep you updated but with several test drives where normally it would eventually throw another symptom or two during that drive I have so far had none
 
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