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Here you can freely post your concerns about the CP4 fuel pump - free range just keep it civil.

H3LZSN1P3R

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This CP4 talk is getting out of hand with the thousands of trucks sold and only hundreds of trucks with failures i think there are much more things to worry about.... i hope the cp4 gets recalled for the cp3 but i wont lose any sleep over it
 

dgstandard

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Just watching "Fight Club" and this comes up:

"Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

Sound about right?
 

kobra

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Yup, sounds about right.
They do have a business to run, after all. I don't agree with it, and it's not how we run our business, but the reality of any public company dictates they live in a 90 day world driven by shareholder returns.
I think it's easy to forget that from where we sit.

B
 

DontSlamMyRam

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Back in the day when Toyota was popping 3vze(88-94 truck V6) head gaskets left and right they stepped up and replaced every HG on the road. Along with probably 20% of the short blocks under the defective HGs. I was working at the Toyota dealership at that time. There was a sea of roached blocks,, plus i even got a new short block on my 88kmi 93 4x4 XC. Toyota didn't want their beloved reliability being questioned so they attempted to remedy the issues. While I know FCA and Toyota have a different philosophy when it comes to the customer svc after the sale its nice to know sometimes the bean counters lose and the customer wins!
 

Epsilon Plus

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Back in the day when Toyota was popping 3vze(88-94 truck V6) head gaskets left and right they stepped up and replaced every HG on the road. Along with probably 20% of the short blocks under the defective HGs. I was working at the Toyota dealership at that time. There was a sea of roached blocks,, plus i even got a new short block on my 88kmi 93 4x4 XC. Toyota didn't want their beloved reliability being questioned so they attempted to remedy the issues. While I know FCA and Toyota have a different philosophy when it comes to the customer svc after the sale its nice to know sometimes the bean counters lose and the customer wins!

Funny you mention that. In 2020, Toyota recalled 3.34 MILLION vehicles because "The subject vehicles are equipped with a fuel pump which may stop operating."

Yup. That's it. Not explode and wreck the entire fuel system, not cause $20k in damage, just "stop operating".

3.34 million. The same year/time frame FCA is trying to "dodge" this problem without comment and without publicly released reasoning for why they've had 3 fuel pumps in 3 model years.

FCA is definitely not up to the customer service standard of Toyota, but this is a just pile on contrast for an ever growing scandal.


"If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash." NHTSA needs to get on this and force the issue. Take it out of FCAs hands put that government funding and authority to good use.

Source from the Horse: https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...nvolving-certain-toyota-and-lexus-vehicles-6/
 
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Epsilon Plus

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My complaint to the NHTSA;

The 2019 to 2020 model year Ram 2500 Heavy Duty equipped with a 6.7L Cummins diesel engine has a major safety issue that could cause a stall and increase the risk of a crash. The Bosch CP4.2 fuel injection pump has a very high rate of sudden failure leading to immediate stoppage on the engine and engine braking system. The pump destroys itself and takes out the rest of the entire fuel system leading to repairs in the $20,000 USD range. FCA & Ram have attempted to revise the pump in late (July) 2020 to solve the issue but the failures keep occurring. For the 2021 model year, FCA & Ram have changed the pump entirely and reverted back to using an older, safer, more reliable design. No public announcements of neither the pump revision in 2020, nor the pump change in 2021 have been made. The issue is so prevalent that the replacement pumps and repairs generally have a 30-90 day wait period where the customer is without the primary vehicle. This problem is a substantiated safety risk. According to a Texas judge in a Bosch CP4.2 lawsuit, when another automaker, GM tried to dismiss the case saying the pump failure is not a safety issue, the court responded: "The worst case scenario of a truck spontaneously stalling at high speeds is not a mere inconvenience. Nor is it a mere inconvenience to spend between $8,000 to $20,000 on repairs to make the trucks fit for their ordinary purpose. The Court rejects GM's suggestion that the risk of spontaneous engine failure while driving is not, as a matter of law, unreasonably dangerous, depriving the vehicles of fitness for their purpose of transportation.". Toyota agrees: "If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash". FCA & Ram have remedied the situation for the 2021 model year, however the 2019 and 2020 owners are still at risk. The NHTSA needs to force the hand of FCA to recall.

I suggest everyone who cares about this issue do one as well. Worst that could happen is nothing. Best case, we force their hand. I'm with the others here that say those of us that have been investigating and informing people and opining on this issue is what helped bring about the 2021 CP3.x change.

At least get your two cents in:

 
D

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Back in the day when Toyota was popping 3vze(88-94 truck V6) head gaskets left and right they stepped up and replaced every HG on the road. Along with probably 20% of the short blocks under the defective HGs. I was working at the Toyota dealership at that time. There was a sea of roached blocks,, plus i even got a new short block on my 88kmi 93 4x4 XC. Toyota didn't want their beloved reliability being questioned so they attempted to remedy the issues. While I know FCA and Toyota have a different philosophy when it comes to the customer svc after the sale its nice to know sometimes the bean counters lose and the customer wins!
Yes, I unfortunately owned a 4-Runner with 3VZE. Head gaskets at 26K. Brake bias issue, and other stuff. I dumped it.
 

camojimmy

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My complaint to the NHTSA;



I suggest everyone who cares about this issue do one as well. Worst that could happen is nothing. Best case, we force their hand. I'm with the others here that say those of us that have been investigating and informing people and opining on this issue is what helped bring about the 2021 CP3.x change.

At least get your two cents in:

I wonder where we can do this in Canada. Doesn't let me fill the form in properly with address etc..
 

dgstandard

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I wonder where we can do this in Canada. Doesn't let me fill the form in properly with address etc..

Likely these guys:

Contact info here:
 

renagade69

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Funny you mention that. In 2020, Toyota recalled 3.34 MILLION vehicles because "The subject vehicles are equipped with a fuel pump which may stop operating."

Yup. That's it. Not explode and wreck the entire fuel system, not cause $20k in damage, just "stop operating".

3.34 million. The same year/time frame FCA is trying to "dodge" this problem without comment and without publicly released reasoning for why they've had 3 fuel pumps in 3 model years.

FCA is definitely not up to the customer service standard of Toyota, but this is a just pile on contrast for an ever growing scandal.


"If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash." NHTSA needs to get on this and force the issue. Take it out of FCAs hands put that government funding and authority to good use.

Source from the Horse: https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...nvolving-certain-toyota-and-lexus-vehicles-6/
How does this actually compare to FCA's fuel pump other than they are replacing their pumps? The fact that someone recalled their pumps does is not the reason for someone else to. The Toyota pumps have been under investigation by the NHTSA. There was a class-action suit that triggered Denso to admit the pumps were bad and Toyota to settle on a voluntary recall with Denso paying the bill. Toyota didn't do this without enormous pressure and there were thousands of failures. I don't know what that correlates to in the percentage of vehicles affected. I just do not see the comparison because the facts are nowhere near the same.
 

kobra

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Likely these guys:

Contact info here:

Thanks for the links!
I tried filling out the form and read through what they would allow as a defect or recall that they would investigate. It seems there are a couple issues with what Transport Canada will action on:
1. The report has to be about a serious safety issue. They list examples, but one example of an issue they would not pursue would be an air bag not deploying at low speed, as the risk of injury or death would be considered minor. It might be tough to get them to consider a fuel pump failure as a serious safety issue; likely a grey area depending on who looked at the case.
2. This is the one that stopped me; you have to report an incident with a date and details, much like an accident report. So, I guess if any Canadians actually had a pump failure you could report that. But it doesn't seem you could complete a report based on the fear of a failure.

Perhaps it is handled different in the US?

hth
B
 

Great White North Eh

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Trying to get transport Canada to listen to problems is like flashing a blind sheep! Unfortunately a bus load of people have to get run over before they do anything, true sad story.
 

Brewbud

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You misspelled banned.
Another ban and I missed it. Dratz. I was looking at the posts thinking why were peeps saying triggered and such. The previous post wasn't that bad. Then I figured it out -it got deleted. LOL
 

2manyprojects

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Back in the day when Toyota was popping 3vze(88-94 truck V6) head gaskets left and right they stepped up and replaced every HG on the road. Along with probably 20% of the short blocks under the defective HGs. I was working at the Toyota dealership at that time. There was a sea of roached blocks,, plus i even got a new short block on my 88kmi 93 4x4 XC. Toyota didn't want their beloved reliability being questioned so they attempted to remedy the issues. While I know FCA and Toyota have a different philosophy when it comes to the customer svc after the sale its nice to know sometimes the bean counters lose and the customer wins!
You're experience working at that dealership was much different than mine as an owner. I bought an '89 4Runner 3.0 Dec 1988 and a friend bought an almost identical '88 at the same time. It was years before Toyota actually admitted the head gasket problem, and my friend wound up paying for replacement and a new short block. My head gaskets were never replaced, and I got 270K miles out of that engine before it died (still have the 4Runner). Toyota gradually started to make repairs, but went a long time before they formally acknowledged a "recall". Many early vehicles were out of commission before Toyota stepped up, and I still believe this was a calculated tactic on Toyota's part.

I absolutely enjoyed this 4Runner, and am still a dedicated Toyota guy (with a new RAM now), but every manufacturer is driven by their business model rather than total dedication to the customer.
 

tozz43

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I have a 2020 Ram 2500 Laramie with 5900 miles on it. I was driving 65 mph on the freeway and my truck died. I fear its my turn with the CP4 issue. I'm looking for any guidance.
Is their a class action lawsuit for this issue yet? Is Ram stepping up and replacing the cp4 with the cp3's yet?
ps my truck is 6 months old.
 

Epsilon Plus

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Class action is a waste of time.

Start looking into your lemon law process ASAP. The dealer is going to tell you some absurd amount of days, 30+, until you get it back. Lemon it and don't give them a chance. If anything, contact an attorney and sue directly and force a settlement. Class action will get you $0.05c.

They have 2021s to roll out to maintain their sales momentum, they can't be bothered with your CP4 pile. You'll just have to wait if you go the fix it route.
 

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