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Dealership caught unhooking dash cam, ridiculing owner, admitting there is a problem, but lying on paperwork, and possibly illegally changing miles

CFE

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Id check with legal counsel first. Depending on the state this may be inviting a whole new set of problems.
Assumption is local media has some sort of legal representation for legal review before they run amok with certain stories.
 

arx237

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Assumption is local media has some sort of legal representation for legal review before they run amok with certain stories.
Heh, seems to be working for "The View"

I would just rather check than assume, my 2 cents at least. He says in his state its clearly legal so drive on I guess.
 

Possum

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Any update?
Another dealer is getting it all straightened out. Original dealer's owner called and was going to come personally pick up my truck and get it fixed, but didn't want to do any discipline until my truck was fixed to avoid any kind of retaliation. That told me all I needed to know, if he has that little control over his employees, then how can I trust anyone to work on it? I have heard other horror stories from friends and family of that dealership. So Chrysler gave me the go ahead to take it somewhere else.
 

Rekd

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Another dealer is getting it all straightened out. Original dealer's owner called and was going to come personally pick up my truck and get it fixed, but didn't want to do any discipline until my truck was fixed to avoid any kind of retaliation. That told me all I needed to know, if he has that little control over his employees, then how can I trust anyone to work on it? I have heard other horror stories from friends and family of that dealership. So Chrysler gave me the go ahead to take it somewhere else.
What dealer is this?
 

Crusty old shellback

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Wait till your truck is complete and true, then you can spill the beans.

No sense in stirring up a mess with your truck still in someone else hands.
 

Herrred

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Don't wait, drop the dime on them. It's doubtful your are the singular case of shoddy workmanship, maintenance cover-ups and alleged federal criminal acts (turning back odometer). Once the story hits, others may come forward to add to the case. The reporter can also help you put together a case for your state Attorney General. Also, the NHTSA gets involved in odometer tampering, so this may get plenty of attention very quickly.
 

Crusty old shellback

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Just thinking hes better off for the moment to wait till his truck is done and back in his hands. That way they cant mess it up.
Been there, done that with GM. One of the reasons I'll never buy one of their products again.
 

Riccochet

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My question. Why would you need permission to take it somewhere else to be repaired? You don't. Your warranty is good at any dealer.
 

Will_T

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In the first video after they reconnected it, there is audio of the tech reading off mileage and appears to be typing it into something, and then reading it off to confirm the mileage is correct before turning the truck back off. I have suspicion that they were illegally modifying the mileage. Is there any way to see if the mileage has ever been changed?
Maybe I missed it, but did you ever figure out if there is a way to know if they changed the mileage? That would be the biggest issue for them I would think if you could show they did.

You would need to know for sure as they could claim what you heard on the audio was just them inputting the actual mileage on the odometer after the visit.

Can you determine if the mileage the truck is showing correlates to what you see in that recovered video? In other words, if you know that in order to drive from the dealership to the highway and that exit and back to the dealership, they would have had to drive 10 miles, but the odometer shows only 4 miles between in and out, that would do it.
 

Possum

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Maybe I missed it, but did you ever figure out if there is a way to know if they changed the mileage? That would be the biggest issue for them I would think if you could show they did.

You would need to know for sure as they could claim what you heard on the audio was just them inputting the actual mileage on the odometer after the visit.

Can you determine if the mileage the truck is showing correlates to what you see in that recovered video? In other words, if you know that in order to drive from the dealership to the highway and that exit and back to the dealership, they would have had to drive 10 miles, but the odometer shows only 4 miles between in and out, that would do it.

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of math and tracing mileage on maps, studying video and pictures I took of the dash before and after I picked it up.

Without going through all of that, from what I can tell, they burned around 100-150 miles of fuel while they had it, but the odometer only went up by 9 miles.

The new dealership is supposed to be looking to see if they can tell if the mileage was changed inside the computer, but they weren't sure if that was possible.

The little joy ride he took was exactly 2.2 miles long according to Google Maps. What I overheard the tech saying was 34930, which he repeated at least 3 times slowly. He also had the ignition on (engine off) in order for the dash cam to turn on, and there's no reason to turn the ignition on just to get mileage. I could also hear him disconnect something from the OBD port after he read the mileage out the 3rd time as though he was confirming it before pulling it out. This all happened hours before the joy ride. When I picked it up, it was at 34932.2 miles (which makes since because the truck drove 2.2 miles on the joy ride). So either a big coincidence that the mileage on the truck when they went to read it off was exactly at 34930.0, or was he just lazy and went with a nice even number ending at .0 when he was programming it in?

I'm 90% sure it was changed.
 

Will_T

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from what I can tell, they burned around 100-150 miles of fuel while they had it, but the odometer only went up by 9 miles.
Hard to prove how much fuel was burned I guess.

The new dealership is supposed to be looking to see if they can tell if the mileage was changed inside the computer, but they weren't sure if that was possible.
Not sure how much I would trust one dealer to get the evidence on another dealer. I am surprised nobody has chimed in here on how to tell if the odometer was rolled back or if it is even possible to tell.

The little joy ride he took was exactly 2.2 miles long according to Google Maps. What I overheard the tech saying was 34930, which he repeated at least 3 times slowly. He also had the ignition on (engine off) in order for the dash cam to turn on, and there's no reason to turn the ignition on just to get mileage. I could also hear him disconnect something from the OBD port after he read the mileage out the 3rd time as though he was confirming it before pulling it out. This all happened hours before the joy ride. When I picked it up, it was at 34932.2 miles (which makes since because the truck drove 2.2 miles on the joy ride). So either a big coincidence that the mileage on the truck when they went to read it off was exactly at 34930.0, or was he just lazy and went with a nice even number ending at .0 when he was programming it in?

I'm 90% sure it was changed.
You did not happen to note the mileage when you dropped it off? edit: I see now you must have since said that the mileage went up by 9 miles? But then you said it went from 34930 to 43932,2 or the referenced 2.2 miles of the joy ride. So that is a little confusing to follow? What was the odometer at when you dropped it off and what was it when you got the truck back?

I mean if you knew or had a photo of the odometer at 34927 then you could at least be assured your suspicions are correct even if you can't prove it. Otherwise the story will be that what you heard was just the tech verifying the mileage when work was started. And the sound you think was something being pulled out of the OBD port was really something else. OR maybe the tech connects his computer he is typing on to the OBD port as part of the normal service procedure. My point is that all these suspicions you have could be 100% correct, but you need to be able to prove it. The photo showing 91mph is great evidence that they drove your truck much faster than then should have, but not much else.

If there was a way to know if the odometer was rolled back that would really be the smoking gun and really bad news for the dealer. I hope someone is able to give you some help or factual advice on that.
 

Possum

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Hard to prove how much fuel was burned I guess.


Not sure how much I would trust one dealer to get the evidence on another dealer. I am surprised nobody has chimed in here on how to tell if the odometer was rolled back or if it is even possible to tell.


You did not happen to note the mileage when you dropped it off? edit: I see now you must have since said that the mileage went up by 9 miles? But then you said it went from 34930 to 43932,2 or the referenced 2.2 miles of the joy ride. So that is a little confusing to follow? What was the odometer at when you dropped it off and what was it when you got the truck back?

I mean if you knew or had a photo of the odometer at 34927 then you could at least be assured your suspicions are correct even if you can't prove it. Otherwise the story will be that what you heard was just the tech verifying the mileage when work was started. And the sound you think was something being pulled out of the OBD port was really something else. OR maybe the tech connects his computer he is typing on to the OBD port as part of the normal service procedure. My point is that all these suspicions you have could be 100% correct, but you need to be able to prove it. The photo showing 91mph is great evidence that they drove your truck much faster than then should have, but not much else.

If there was a way to know if the odometer was rolled back that would really be the smoking gun and really bad news for the dealer. I hope someone is able to give you some help or factual advice on that.

Yeah at some point it's not worth it. But I just can't shake the mileage thing. It's bugging me.

I took a photo of the dash when I dropped it off to get the mileage, but you can't see the fuel gauge and the truck was off so it would have shown empty anyhow. So I went back on the footage from before dropping it off and I filled up 41 miles before dropping it off.

So they either ragged on it for 8.4 miles, idled it for hours, or changed the mileage.
 

Will_T

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That photo from the dashcam of 91mph at 3:01 on July 14th is solid if the service receipt shows the truck was in their possession at that time. Other than that I am not sure what you have. Other than the odometer thing.

If there is some way to prove that the mileage was altered, that dealer is screwed. (I believe the penalties are severe for a dealer that does that?) I think that should be what you should focus on getting answered. A google search says that on some vehicles the control module tracks mileage independent from what shows on the odometer. I don't know if that is true for Rams? But if a dealer, or anyone with the right technology or tools, can roll back mileage without it being detected then that is a huge flaw in the system. I don't think even the most dishonest dealer would take a chance on rolling back the mileage but I might be wrong.

The NHTSA seems to indicate that digital odometers can be altered with no evidence of it. Hard to believe that with all the computers and tech on new vehicles, odometer rollback would still be easy to conceal. Of course, if it was a lot of miles and/or caused a conflict with previous service records then it would be easy to prove. But for a few miles in real time, how would you?
From the NHTSA website:

DIGITAL ODOMETERS​

Digital odometers that have been tampered with are even harder to detect than traditional mechanical odometers (since they have no visible moving parts). A vehicle’s condition and a detailed history report are the best clues a buyer has for determining whether fraud has occurred.
 

Riccochet

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That photo from the dashcam of 91mph at 3:01 on July 14th is solid if the service receipt shows the truck was in their possession at that time. Other than that I am not sure what you have. Other than the odometer thing.

If there is some way to prove that the mileage was altered, that dealer is screwed. (I believe the penalties are severe for a dealer that does that?) I think that should be what you should focus on getting answered. A google search says that on some vehicles the control module tracks mileage independent from what shows on the odometer. I don't know if that is true for Rams? But if a dealer, or anyone with the right technology or tools, can roll back mileage without it being detected then that is a huge flaw in the system. I don't think even the most dishonest dealer would take a chance on rolling back the mileage but I might be wrong.

The NHTSA seems to indicate that digital odometers can be altered with no evidence of it. Hard to believe that with all the computers and tech on new vehicles, odometer rollback would still be easy to conceal. Of course, if it was a lot of miles and/or caused a conflict with previous service records then it would be easy to prove. But for a few miles in real time, how would you?
From the NHTSA website:

You can change the odometer with AlphaOBD. I don't think there is a way to tell if it has been changed, or what it was change from and to. But it may trip a setting in the BCM to show that the gauge cluster was replaced.
 

Brutal_HO

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You can change the odometer with AlphaOBD. I don't think there is a way to tell if it has been changed, or what it was change from and to. But it may trip a setting in the BCM to show that the gauge cluster was replaced.

That only changes the EVIC display, you cannot alter the recorded mileage with AlfaOBD. I don't think it can even be done with WiTech.
 

Possum

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You can change the odometer with AlphaOBD. I don't think there is a way to tell if it has been changed, or what it was change from and to. But it may trip a setting in the BCM to show that the gauge cluster was replaced.

The mileage in my cluster doesn't match the mileage when I read the engine computer status. I don't know if that has something to do with it or not.

2022-08-02 16_25_46-Photo - Google Photos.png
 

Brutal_HO

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My question. Why would you need permission to take it somewhere else to be repaired? You don't. Your warranty is good at any dealer.

In most cases, a botched repair by one dealer will not be touched by another.

Getting FCA to approve it and the new dealer to accept it is wise.
 

Possum

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That photo from the dashcam of 91mph at 3:01 on July 14th is solid if the service receipt shows the truck was in their possession at that time. Other than that I am not sure what you have. Other than the odometer thing.

If there is some way to prove that the mileage was altered, that dealer is screwed. (I believe the penalties are severe for a dealer that does that?) I think that should be what you should focus on getting answered. A google search says that on some vehicles the control module tracks mileage independent from what shows on the odometer. I don't know if that is true for Rams? But if a dealer, or anyone with the right technology or tools, can roll back mileage without it being detected then that is a huge flaw in the system. I don't think even the most dishonest dealer would take a chance on rolling back the mileage but I might be wrong.

The NHTSA seems to indicate that digital odometers can be altered with no evidence of it. Hard to believe that with all the computers and tech on new vehicles, odometer rollback would still be easy to conceal. Of course, if it was a lot of miles and/or caused a conflict with previous service records then it would be easy to prove. But for a few miles in real time, how would you?
From the NHTSA website:

Yeah there is video proof the advisor drove it. You can see him get out of the truck and walk in front of it, leave it running outside by itself for a few minutes, then come back to it and get in.
 

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