CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

[Brutal_HO]

100K comes quick for some people, and I am sure others want to know whether they should dump their truck before they get too many miles on it and while the used market is still up. And then others just don't want to be stranded on the side of the road with a trailer in the middle of no where.


.

I'm in the both camp...

 

[Epsilon Plus]

Gonna look funny if the most active admin and poster on the site has a GM/Ford in the sig because of a CP4 sale. Better act fast, RAM.

 

[KBob]

Okay I have a dumb question. My 2020 window sticker clearly states 5 year 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty. So what is the fuss for running out of time before your pump grenades?

Mostly people travel in these trucks, and use something else to buy groceries. Being stranded 1000 miles from home, or loss of income from down time are the biggest issues.

 

[jetrinka]

Has the pump been changed for the 2021 and on Cummins as well? Cannot find clarification.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Has the pump been changed for the 2021 and on Cummins as well? Cannot find clarification.

2021+ have the CP-ISB21S3 (new CP3).

Did you read the first post in this very thread?

The info was added on Feb 2021.

 

[jetrinka]

2021+ have the CP-ISB21S3 (new CP3).

Did you read the first post in this very thread?

The info was added on Feb 2021.

I am sorry I meant to ask about clarification for the high output version. I scrolled through numerous posts in this thread and couldn’t find where someone actually verified the HO was updated too.

 

[mra400ex]

I am sorry I meant to ask about clarification for the high output version. I scrolled through numerous posts in this thread and couldn’t find where someone actually verified the HO was updated too.

I have a new HO 2021 and it is the CP-ISB21S3 (new CP3).

 

[Hunter1]

Hello all, I have a 2019 Ram 2500 with the CP4. Debating about whether to trade it in or not, but it does have 65,000 km (40,000 miles). So far no issues. I'm in Canada, not sure if that matters in terms of diesel fuel or not.

Folks who see the CP4 failure generally see it at lower mileage?

 

[jetrinka]

I have a new HO 2021 and it is the CP-ISB21S3 (new CP3).

Thank you!

 

[22BHmega]

Hello all, I have a 2019 Ram 2500 with the CP4. Debating about whether to trade it in or not, but it does have 65,000 km (40,000 miles). So far no issues. I'm in Canada, not sure if that matters in terms of diesel fuel or not.

Folks who see the CP4 failure generally see it at lower mileage?

convert it to CP3?

 

[Hunter1]

convert it to CP3?

I guess you could do that, but you'd void the warranty at that mileage. Wondering if the CP4 issue is blown out of proportion or if it's a legitimate ticking time bomb that should be traded away.

 

[UglyViking]

I guess you could do that, but you'd void the warranty at that mileage. Wondering if the CP4 issue is blown out of proportion or if it's a legitimate ticking time bomb that should be traded away.

There are over 1k posts on this thread about the CP4, there is another thread about CP4 failures, another one about the 21+ change to the CP3, another about the S&S/II CP3 replacement kits, another about what fuel additives to use to keep the CP4 alive, another ab… well you get my drift.

As much as all of us like to BS online about stuff it's glaringly obvious that this is a major issue. The fact that FCA did a pump redesign, then a complete changeover in 3 model years goes to show you.

Keep it, trade it, swap it, up to you. Fingers crossed that in September we will have good news from FCA, but frankly I'm having a hard time holding my breath. If my truck was out of warranty right now I'd be pretty annoyed and unsure what to do.

 

[Wileykid]

The over 1,000 posts here, really doesn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things for FCA. Have say 500 actual failures out of how many trucks, and they are still selling them without any problems? Most (80%(ish)) posts are just repeat complaining, or commenting on the previous posts.

I don't think there is much chance of a recall for the pump. I would guess, the service fix is if you have a failure, they will have a mod kit that will use the updated CP3 pump, but total recall, not betting on that. Look at Ford, and did Chevy do anything when they went to the Denso pump with the previous gen. As far as goodwill from FCA, people here are modifying the truck, or just buying a '21+, so has FCA really lost anything?

My vehicles are tools for what I want to do, I am not brand loyal, my trucks/cars stay stock. My RAM had the best interior, but this tool has a kink in possibly leaving me out to dry while towing my trailer, and that is not acceptable, and yes, any truck could do that, but not as much as RAM. Good chance my truck will be replaced by the end of the year, and RAM is not on the top of the list.

 

[Hunter1]

The over 1,000 posts here, really doesn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things for FCA. Have say 500 actual failures out of how many trucks, and they are still selling them without any problems? Most (80%(ish)) posts are just repeat complaining, or commenting on the previous posts.

I don't think there is much chance of a recall for the pump. I would guess, the service fix is if you have a failure, they will have a mod kit that will use the updated CP3 pump, but total recall, not betting on that. Look at Ford, and did Chevy do anything when they went to the Denso pump with the previous gen. As far as goodwill from FCA, people here are modifying the truck, or just buying a '21+, so has FCA really lost anything?

My vehicles are tools for what I want to do, I am not brand loyal, my trucks/cars stay stock. My RAM had the best interior, but this tool has a kink in possibly leaving me out to dry while towing my trailer, and that is not acceptable, and yes, any truck could do that, but not as much as RAM. Good chance my truck will be replaced by the end of the year, and RAM is not on the top of the list.

Agreed. From a financial standpoint, I really can't see FCA doing anything major. Not sure what the Ram Cares thing is all about, seems really vague.

I really like this truck, which is too bad because it is likely to get replaced once the supply issues are sorted out. I would probably stay with Ram though, it tows so well.

That being said, I really haven't shopped the other brands so they may be just as good.

 

[Brewbud]

Even ignoring the loss of consumer faith, a CP4 failure is a high-dollar repair for the FCA/Stellantis. The bean counters will be looking at the projected cost of possible warranty repairs vs a bit less costly proactive fix when they make their decision. However, they also need to consider the small chance of NHTSA getting involved and any lawsuits that may happen. Now add the consumer faith component back in at the end. It's a mathematical formula. Which way will the dollars crunch?

 

[UglyViking]

The over 1,000 posts here, really doesn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things for FCA. Have say 500 actual failures out of how many trucks, and they are still selling them without any problems? Most (80%(ish)) posts are just repeat complaining, or commenting on the previous posts.

I don't think there is much chance of a recall for the pump. I would guess, the service fix is if you have a failure, they will have a mod kit that will use the updated CP3 pump, but total recall, not betting on that. Look at Ford, and did Chevy do anything when they went to the Denso pump with the previous gen. As far as goodwill from FCA, people here are modifying the truck, or just buying a '21+, so has FCA really lost anything?

My vehicles are tools for what I want to do, I am not brand loyal, my trucks/cars stay stock. My RAM had the best interior, but this tool has a kink in possibly leaving me out to dry while towing my trailer, and that is not acceptable, and yes, any truck could do that, but not as much as RAM. Good chance my truck will be replaced by the end of the year, and RAM is not on the top of the list.

This is a single forum, there are others, plus groups on facebook. Everyone is talking about this issue, so it's not going unnoticed by FCA.

Additionally, if the bean counters were the ones that pushed for the CP4 in the first place they will also be the ones pushing for a recall. It's better to have a concrete loss on the balance sheet for a quarter than to have a small drain that occurs over years and years, brand trust aside it costs them 3-4x in parts alone assuming that the failure doesn't wreck the engine. No way they want that hanging over their head.

You bring up GM but they are an entirely different beast. GM switched from the CP4 to Denso when they introduced the L5P, so they at least have a legal argument they can leverage. FCA had a pump redesign and then swapped to a CP3 variant after 2 model years. If FCA does nothing it will bite them in the rear, they will likely be forced to replace pumps/full engines even out of warranty.

Speaking of brand loyalty, I get all brands have their problems but FCA is in a position GM/Ford aren't, it's the lowest brand on the totem and trying hard to claw up. They have spent god only knows how much on improving their trucks and marketing, to risk losing all that for a pump would be insane. It costs so much more to acquire a customer than keep one and FCA is aware of that.

At some point the NHTSA is going to step in. My guess is that the only reason they haven't yet is because FCA has already discussed with them privately and NHTSA is aware of whats going on and what FCAs plan is.

 

[Wileykid]

At some point the NHTSA is going to step in. My guess is that the only reason they haven't yet is because FCA has already discussed with them privately and NHTSA is aware of whats going on and what FCAs plan is.

Problem with your point, is what has NHTSA done with all the previous years, on all the other trucks with the CP4, and the failure's that put them in dangerous positions. Is RAM anymore special than them. One hopes they will do something, or are forcing a change, but for some reason they haven't said anything.

 

[PatriotBlue90]

Just to add a data point: I use a local mechanic for maintenance on my 2020 Tradesman 2500 (after my dealership lost my center caps twice during tire rotations); he was shocked to see that Ram went to the CP4.2 and said he has seen them fail more often than not on the Duramax's (usually around 100K miles). In the Duramax world they stave off the imminent CP4 failure by adding a quart of ATF at each fill up to add lubricity. I won't be trying this while I am under warranty but I wanted to pass it along.

Also: I called the Ram Cares hotline today and was told by a very nice lady that RAM is very aware of the CP4.2 failures and she herself had four cases ongoing. She also said she had heard "a fix or at least more info" would come out at the end of September.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Just to add a data point: I use a local mechanic for maintenance on my 2020 Tradesman 2500 (after my dealership lost my center caps twice during tire rotations); he was shocked to see that Ram went to the CP4.2 and said he has seen them fail more often than not on the Duramax's (usually around 100K miles). In the Duramax world they stave off the imminent CP4 failure by adding a quart of ATF at each fill up to add lubricity. I won't be trying this while I am under warranty but I wanted to pass it along.

Also: I called the Ram Cares hotline today and was told by a very nice lady that RAM is very aware of the CP4.2 failures and she herself had four cases ongoing. She also said she had heard "a fix or at least more info" would come out at the end of September.

ATF is an old wives tale and is not suitable for the CP4.2. Don't do it warranty or not.

 

[UglyViking]

Problem with your point, is what has NHTSA done with all the previous years, on all the other trucks with the CP4, and the failure's that put them in dangerous positions. Is RAM anymore special than them. One hopes they will do something, or are forcing a change, but for some reason they haven't said anything.

Sure, fair point. That said, at least from what I'm seeing online it looks like failures on RAM are much more frequent than those on the other platforms. I'm guessing that the scale, by percentage of trucks, may cause the NHTSA to act over the issue itself.