CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

[mra400ex]

If a guy swaps a CP4 for a CP3, are there any other parts that need changing? Lines? Injectors? Sensors? Programming? In-tank pump?

Reason I ask is because my assumption is that going to a different HPP would also require additional changes and updates to the truck, all of which are super expensive, and assuming that a manufacturer is going to retro-fit used trucks with those new systems is a pipe dream. I cannot see ANY manufacturer doing that.

Toyota had an issue with a section of their frames corroding once, and they found that it was easier to buy back the entire truck rather than try to retrofit all the old ones.

It is a kit that includes some lines, adapter plate for front cover, and spacer for ECM from their instructions.

 

[UglyViking]

yes, I could swap in a cp3 for less than I would lose in trade in, but at that point I’d be driving a 1 year old truck i paid A crap ton load of money for with no Warranty, a questionable fuel delivery system and a crappy hvac system (I won’t even mention the body mount issue).

There is a TSB for the HVAC system. I plan to do this once I bring my truck in for it's first service.

If a guy swaps a CP4 for a CP3, are there any other parts that need changing? Lines? Injectors? Sensors? Programming? In-tank pump?

Reason I ask is because my assumption is that going to a different HPP would also require additional changes and updates to the truck, all of which are super expensive, and assuming that a manufacturer is going to retro-fit used trucks with those new systems is a pipe dream. I cannot see ANY manufacturer doing that.

Toyota had an issue with a section of their frames corroding once, and they found that it was easier to buy back the entire truck rather than try to retrofit all the old ones.

The CP3 swap kits have everything you need for this swap.

From your previous posts I agree the Ford can be a little more expensive. On all diesels I have read one of the best upgrades is a Fass Fuel system. Lower micron filtering and stops aeration. On the Ram they recommend you drop the tank and modify the module to allow fuel pickup better. AS you know, I did the switch to a Ford with 7.3L gas. SO far so good. Pulls my 11K trailer like a top. But anyway, local shops all recommend the Fass system. Especially on the Duramax too. On resale a neighbor just traded a 2011 f250 w 6.7L with over 100k and got like $22K trade in. I felt that was a decent number but could be wrong. They also dropped off MSRP some also. Around our area the Suoerduties seem to move out of dealers quickly. I still want to see Ram step up on this issue with the CP4. Worse part of it is being without your truck if you use it for a living.

Didn't Toyota actually replace a lot of the frames? I know of two guys who got new frames on their truck, not bought back. Unless you're talking about a different frame issue not on the tacoma.

 

[str_8_shot]

You mean buying a chevy? Because Ford still uses the CP4, so I don't quite understand why you would swap one CP4 for another CP4, especially considering the Ford can't be retrofitted. I suppose you could go chevy but it's ugly as sin, the GMC looks nice but you can't really put nice sized wheels without jacking the thing to the sky.

I think at this point just keep the thing and swap a CP3.

I mean I’ll buy something else! Plain and simple, it doesn’t matter the badge on the grill if the truck stays in the shop. As I’ve posted before... I’ve had a shifting issue, electrical issues, CP4 failure, ECU replaced, radio/Nav/ backup camera go out (replaced),auto tailgate hasn’t worked since day one, and here’s my truck this Wednesday (in the shop now). So, bash Ford or Chevy all you want, I’m not bashing Ram at all but whataboutism never helps any discussion. On mine I’m speaking from my experience, not observations or Ram “forum” perspective.

I’ve been looking at the 2021 Rams, but I’d like to see the pumps addressed before I purchase another vehicle from the same auto maker. After all this effects more people than just myself, as consumers our most important vote is with our wallets.

With all that said, I still have faith FCA/Ram will address the CP4 pumps issue...

 

[UglyViking]

Fair points. I guess all I was trying to say was that if your only issue was the CP4 then it would be dumb to switch trucks solely for that considering the other truck has the same pump, albeit less likely to glitter bomb still very possible. From the sound of it you're facing a bad build build, which sucks. I've got some minor nits from my truck, HVAC being the only "big" issue outside the CP4.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to be a fanboy. I was a day away from buying a SD before I came back around to buying the Cummins. I really like what Ford has to offer across their lineup and really like the SD, I think it's a great truck overall and really like the boxy look so I don't at all fault you for dumping yours if you decide to. The only vehicle I fanboy over is my dream car, a 66 continental sedan.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed FCA does the right thing with this pump. They seem to have taken care of us in relation to the HVAC according to the TSB so I'm hopeful here. For me, and my long term truck plans I think it will be cheaper to keep the truck no matter the decision FCA chooses to make but I guarantee that if FCA doesn't take care of us I won't be buying a jeep or challenger from them if they choose not to and won't be taking my vehicles to their service department either if that is the case.

 

[str_8_shot]

@UglyViking I’m 100% with you, as far as HD trucks go I’m not sure what’s “safe” to buy these days. I get the CP3 kit is available, but I fear if I changed anything outside FCA/Ram it would void parts of my warranty. Not to mention, I’d hate to come out of pocket for a CP3 kit with less than 11k miles on my truck. I switched to Ram from F250 because I love the Cummings engine... I’d hate for the engine/pump to be the reason I ultimately leave Ram. But I can’t wait forever, and I need a reliable truck.

I’d really love to hear FCA address the possible remedy, and put the speculation to rest... Good or Bad. If it’s just extended warranty, I’m moving on. That 2021 toyota prius prime should pull my boat just fine...lol

 

[NordicNevs]

@UglyViking I get the CP3 kit is available, but I fear if I changed anything outside FCA/Ram it would void parts of my warranty. Not to mention, I’d hate to come out of pocket for a CP3 kit with less than 11k miles on my truck.

I can tell you from experience that the dealer noticed mine right away. they didn’t blatantly say they would void warranty, however they did put it in my notes and called it a “High pressure fuel pump swap” and claimed that it was “making noises that were unusual”.

Food for thought for you guys.


2021 F-350 CCLB King Ranch
2019 Durango SRT

 

[NordicNevs]

Disregard the Ford stuff this isn’t about indoctrinating you guys with that haha but it explains what they did to the pumps for their trucks from the lead diesel engineer for the PSD.

You want to start at 3:51 and it goes for about 3 min or so.

2021 F-350 CCLB King Ranch
2019 Durango SRT

 

[UglyViking]

Didn't find anything super interesting from that conversation but thanks for sharing.

 

[mra400ex]

Fair points. I guess all I was trying to say was that if your only issue was the CP4 then it would be dumb to switch trucks solely for that considering the other truck has the same pump, albeit less likely to glitter bomb still very possible. From the sound of it you're facing a bad build build, which sucks. I've got some minor nits from my truck, HVAC being the only "big" issue outside the CP4.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to be a fanboy. I was a day away from buying a SD before I came back around to buying the Cummins. I really like what Ford has to offer across their lineup and really like the SD, I think it's a great truck overall and really like the boxy look so I don't at all fault you for dumping yours if you decide to. The only vehicle I fanboy over is my dream car, a 66 continental sedan.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed FCA does the right thing with this pump. They seem to have taken care of us in relation to the HVAC according to the TSB so I'm hopeful here. For me, and my long term truck plans I think it will be cheaper to keep the truck no matter the decision FCA chooses to make but I guarantee that if FCA doesn't take care of us I won't be buying a jeep or challenger from them if they choose not to and won't be taking my vehicles to their service department either if that is the case.

I agree with you 100%. This just took to long so far and I was able to trade. I changed my needs and a dealer that gave me a good trade. So far I am tickled with the F250 Tremor with the 7.3 gas. To pull my D4 I plan on exploring other options or having it hauled if needed. The a/c on my 3500 never got overly cool either and planned to have the TSB done later on if I kept it. All brands have issues with something. But to ignore a big problem like the CP4 leaving a person stranded is sad.

 

[Brutal_HO]

PLEASE stick to the technical, TSB, and/or recall aspects of this issue.

 

[MtnRider]

I can tell you from experience that the dealer noticed mine right away. they didn’t blatantly say they would void warranty, however they did put it in my notes and called it a “High pressure fuel pump swap” and claimed that it was “making noises that were unusual”.

Food for thought for you guys.


2021 F-350 CCLB King Ranch
2019 Durango SRT

It's not the dealer that is going to deny your warranty, it's FCA. .... And they will. If you have a major $ repair, transmission, fuel system, motor, etc FCA will specifically look for tunes, modifications, anything along those lines to deny you and cancel the warranty.

.

 

[NordicNevs]

It's not the dealer that is going to deny your warranty, it's FCA. .... And they will. If you have a major $ repair, transmission, fuel system, motor, etc FCA will specifically look for tunes, modifications, anything along those lines to deny you and cancel the warranty.

.

Correct but when the dealer puts in notes, it certainly makes FCAs job easier lol.


2021 F-350 CCLB King Ranch
2019 Durango SRT

 

[steve49]

The sad part to that story is some unsuspecting guy is gonna come along and buy that truck, have some fuel or emissions issue, and have his warranty denied because of the pump alteration.... and he gets screwed! That's why I don't buy used vehicles!

 

[NordicNevs]

The sad part to that story is some unsuspecting guy is gonna come along and buy that truck, have some fuel or emissions issue, and have his warranty denied because of the pump alteration.... and he gets screwed! That's why I don't buy used vehicles!

Luckily for anyone who buys my previous truck they won’t have fuel pump or emissions issues


2021 F-350 CCLB King Ranch
2019 Durango SRT

 

[Epsilon Plus]

Tomorrow will be 2 months since the mystery post.

Glad to see so many in here waiting and getting riled up. It shows this won't soon be forgotten. Looks like we already have a couple people that made a switch or are considering one because of it. Can't say I'm not in that boat. The principal of having to spend $3k+ to fix their BS and lose a warranty over their inaction is infuriating. I wonder how long those companies will make those kits now that their customer base has shrunk to just 2 model years.

 

[GBB]

Just sh*#ed canned my 2020 (sold) with the CP4.0 Ordered 2021. I thought about doing the CP3 conversion but losing warranty and $3000 and possibly having tuning problems just wasn’t worth the headache As we travel to some remote locations...no cell service and good luck if needing a wrecker. Hope Ram resolves this issue with the ‘19 and ‘20’s.

 

[Epsilon Plus]

• Jan 7, 2021

Hello everyone, we would like to relay the latest update to you here regarding your concerns with the CP4 pump. There is currently a service solution in progress for all 2019- 2020MY vehicles equipped with CP4 high pressure pump. Further updates will be announced here as soon as more information becomes available. In the meantime, please know that our team remains available to assist in resolving serviceable vehicle concerns via private messages. Thank you,

Kathryn
RamCares

 

[exiledinaz]

It's not the dealer that is going to deny your warranty, it's FCA. .... And they will. If you have a major $ repair, transmission, fuel system, motor, etc FCA will specifically look for tunes, modifications, anything along those lines to deny you and cancel the warranty.

.

I have had the dealer keep me from getting warranty repairs. I had a 2018 Jeep Cherokee 2.4 l aluminum Italian motor that was using 1 quart of oil per 1000 miles...Did all the steps the dealer(Larry Miller Surprise) said to do. FCA oil consumption test was a pint in 500 miles..In my world, that a quart in 1000 miles. This Service guy( who got flunked from mechanic to service advisor) said "sorry, its within specs" . I had the TSB from FCA that said 1 quart per 2000 miles is ok. Made no difference. FCA would not do anything for me because of what the "service advisor" said. Sold the oil burner. On a funny note, I called the dealer I bought it from, and one of their guys said, "oh yeah.. Those 2.4L are like 2 strokes, They burn all kinds of oil..... smh

 

[UglyViking]

Well @RamCares we are now past the 60 day mark. There have been a few attempts to add you to conversations but there have been no responses. It would be good to know what sort of timeline we are looking at or the final say.

 

[exiledinaz]

I‘ve already had my truck at the dealer and they have told me there is no issue with the a/c. Yes, I can push the issue and have the now pissed off dealer tearing apart the dash in my 75k truck. I should not have been put in this position, especially over something as simple as cold air. I’ve been driving since 1980, and I cannot remember one single vehicle I’ve owned/rented/borrowed with a/c that has performed this poorly, and this is 40 years later.

I keep hearing about the A/C issue. What years did it effect? I have a 2020 built in I think may 2020. It seems to work ok.