Ram Heavy Duty Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

A/C Issues? Anyone else

KB RAM

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
33
Reaction score
50
Location
San Diego
same issue, my air doesn't blow hard nor does it get super cold. when compared to the 2019 longhorn 1500 i had prior it is very weak. took it to dealer and they said it was "normal".
 

Gondul

Prince of Pintops
Joined
Mar 10, 2019
Messages
1,691
Reaction score
1,528
same issue, my air doesn't blow hard nor does it get super cold. when compared to the 2019 longhorn 1500 i had prior it is very weak. took it to dealer and they said it was "normal".

It is working 'normally'... however what they spec'd as normal sucks... follow the link I posted to the 1500 board. Same problem with the AC
 

savaytse66

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Messages
53
Reaction score
25
I did a somewhat objective test yesterday to prove I'm not completely crazy. After a half hour drive averaging 45 mph, fan on high, re-circulate, Lo, I was still pretty darn warm with an outside air temp of 86 degrees, sunny, PA humidity. So I ran in the house, grabbed my dual probe grill/kitchen thermometer, and took a trip around the block. I measured the driver's side vents, half the time in re-circulate mode, the other half in fresh air mode, in that order.

The left and center vents were consistently 5 degrees different, with the driver's center vent being 5 degrees warmer than the left. In re-circulation mode, the lowest I got was 53 on the left and 58 on the right. In fresh air mode, I was at 58 left, and 63 center. I did not bother with the passenger vents because 1, I was by myself, and 2, that isn't the air that blows on me all the time. I will say that the passenger air FEELS cooler than the driver side vents, but I did not measure this.

Again, this was after a half hour of driving around with everything at full blast. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I hate keeping re-circulate on for too long, as the air starts to feel stale. Also, I noticed in the manual that Ram even suggests NOT running in re-circulation mode for extended periods of time.
 

jb2

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
45
Reaction score
24
I have been following this issue (*Ram's AC performance on 2019+ platforms) somewhat closely since the Gen5-1500 deliveries began last year. In fact, I delayed my buying decision as a direct result of the Ram AC issue in the hopes FCA would come forward with a real fix (I'm losing that hope, but not completely). On the positive side of that, the purchase decision delay has allowed my new truck interest to expand upstack from the half tons to HD's (Ram 2500 & Sierra AT4 HD). Over the months, I've test driven too many RAM vehicles , a small handful of Sierra 1500 AT4's & an even smaller handful of AT4 HD's (only recently have they hit lots in my area).

Hoping to save folks some time with my attempt at summarizing the numerous AC Performance/Problem threads (a couple of the threads are extremely long) from 5th GenRams Forum:
  • Ram's AC performance from the new 5th gen 1500 & 4.5 2500 is a disappointment to many owners (and some potential owners, self included).
  • The most important fact per my readings & experience with the new Ram trucks: FCA changed the physical architecture of the RAM AC systems from the prior gen models. New RAM AC systems appear to be entirely dependent on an electronically-controlled blend door. Whereas, previous gen vehicles also had a heater core valve that helped ensure the truck's heater core was not bleeding too much heat into the AC system vents/airflow.
  • The behavior of the new gen AC is not particularly consistent from one vehicle to the next. I directly observed this in back to back test drives, multiple times. Owners' experience as reported in 5thGenRam forums reads similarly to what I saw in person.
  • I originally hoped the RAM AC issue was isolated to the 5th gen half-tons, but the Blend Door dependency also appears to be the paradigm RAM/FCA used for the 2500's. I have not directly confirmed this on the 2500's, but anecdotally based on the ac performance... it appears to be the case.
  • Some owners in the threads reported that the AC performance on their trucks changed over the course of time... from 1st date great to horrible... average to below average. Some have said their AC started good and stayed good. Others reported the AC started bad and stayed bad.
  • At present, it seems as though the new RAM AC systems are a box of chocolates. Unit variance of this degree scares me as a buyer. At least until their is a factory-backed solution reducing ac perf variance down to a more reasonable level.
  • Ram's blend door dependency for their HVAC has been a proven problem source (many times over) via various Ram owner-designed AC system hacks which employ clamps & valves to isolate the heater core. These home brew fixes immediately improve AC system performance via significant airflow temp reduction. Observed 8-12 degree vent airflow temp reductions appear to be a fair expectation after the AC hack of choice is performed.
  • Ram Dealers seem to have been effectively trained by FCA or some other Wizard of OZ in charge to say they have not "heard of any AC issues with the new trucks". It's almost comical how consistent they are with this message, even when 5 trucks are rolling out of their service bay for AC issues.
  • Fear not, the dealership service team will most likely tell you ,the owner, that the AC is 'normal' after their AC test protocol is complete.
  • The 'new' govt mandated coolant type is a frequent scapegoat for the dealerships. The truck's software version/settings are another common scapegoat for the AC issue. A software upgrade & coolant recharge failed to help most of the forum users experiencing the AC issue. It sounds like the software reflash primarily targets fan speed.
  • Ensuring your coolant charge pressure sounds like it is worthwhile though... given some users reported trucks delivered with inadequate charge pressures. But it doesn't remediate the issue for those with inadequate blend doors.
  • The driver side vent & the left center vent are the most common offenders of uncomfortable AC vent temps. Users often reporting upwards of double-digit temp differences from those vents as compared to the passenger vents. It's amusing that the FCA engineers would let the driver vent be the offenders. I mean, be craftier and hide it in the passenger or rear vents;)
  • Setting aside all the dealership theatrics, isolating the heater core via hose clamps &/or valves has proven 100% effective at markedly reducing the AC vent temps.
Outlook related points:
  • At present, it doesn't feel likely (to me) that Ram & FCA will admit that there is a 'problem' or issue an AC system 'recall' any time soon
  • There are handful of apologists that point out (rightfully so) that many of these trucks' vent temps test out as 'normal' when using the RAM AC test protocol.
  • Unfortunately for Ram owners, the temperature performance thresholds in the current RAM AC test protocol are an absolute cake walk to hit. 'Passing' the RAM AC test is so easy, my lawnmower could probably pass it too! It reminds me of a time when I let my engineers choose the perf thresholds for their own work. Guess what, their code somehow was ALWAYS performant! haha
  • The layup RAM AC test appears to be designed to pass just about every truck that doesn't have complete AC system failure. This goal appears to have been accomplished & presently the performance test serves as a stable crutch for dealerships & FCA to say everything is 'Normal'. As consolation, the 'software flash' is then offered to the customer in hopes a placebo effect victory is achieved courtesy of leaf blower velocity coming through the vents with the new fan speed settings.
  • The other crutch (which deserves a seat at the table) is overall cabin cooling capability. This would factor in air volume, not just specific vent temps from the driver vents. If air volume of non-ideal temps is high enough... it can still cool the cabin the same as cooler vent temps flowing at lower airflow volume. i.e. garden hose versus firehose filling a pool, small turbo versus large turbo, etc. On the point of total air volume, regardless of total cabin temp... blowing a higher volume of less than comfortable air on the truck's driver is a bad customer sat approach.
  • Admitting the existence of an AC problem when the physical architecture of a system (blend door dependency) is the likely root is a very expensive admission. Particularly given how many units are already in customer hands. What's more, the issue is not safety related (e.g. airbags, axle failure, brake failure, etc)... so the prioritization of ideal AC performance is probably at the bottom of Ram's pile . Unless it begins to affect sales in a material way, ac performance will not be at the top of the issue list.
  • I love that the customer-developed AC hacks well-documented on 5thGenRams are almost guaranteed to work. This is the one thing that is allowing me to keep Ram in the equation instead of just buying the HD AT4 (which will have it's own issues, so I wouldn't want to jump that shark too early).
  • I am concerned about the AC hacks negatively impacting the warranty though, even though removing the hose clamp before service is not too difficult. Although, going with a permanent valve would be my preference for a number of reasons... but that would assuredly crush the Ram warranty.
  • The current blend door's sourced by RAM for these new gen trucks are either faulty from the jump, have short lifespans of effectiveness, or are just not adequate. Only time will tease out that answer.
  • Time will also tease out what (if any) other contributing factors may be.
In the end, I am thankful I didn't need to rush the buying decision thanks to other owned vehicles, but I would love to just hit the fast-forward and be done with the decision. I've test driven enough trucks this past year for a lifetime!

cheers all
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
41
Reaction score
24
If it helps you at all, we are trading in our 2018 sierra denali hd on an ordered 2019 ram, that I ordered knowing it may have a/c issues that I have to tweak myself. This is entirely due to the fact that my 18 month old gmc is rusting and the frame coating is coming off in large chunks. I would rather have to put a valve in to fix my ac then deal with rust like that
 

savaytse66

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Messages
53
Reaction score
25
I just dropped my truck off at the dealer this morning, 2 weeks to the day after taking delivery. They were going to put a charge on it to "see if that helps", but when they went to ring up the service in their computer, all kind of alarms went off, being a 2019 with AC concerns. So they are currently putting it through a bunch of diagnostics per the computer. I got a 1500 Classic Express as a loaner, and it's blowing way colder than my Limited 2500.

I am encouraged by the computer's direction of additional diagnostics. The dealer told me this is the 3rd truck they've had come in for inadequate AC. Hopefully FCA is taking this more seriously?
 
Last edited:

jb2

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
45
Reaction score
24
The dealer told me this is the 3rd truck they've had come in for inadequate AC. Hopefully FCA is taking this more seriously?

Will be interesting what they say when you pick it up. For your sake, I hope the factory failed to fully charge the system.
 

flan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
3,330
Reaction score
6,487
I will say my 19 blows cold on 90 degree days, I usually keep the fan speed on 2!
 

Wayniac85

New Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
19
Reaction score
9
Not tryna hi-jack the thread, but my truck keeps the center of the windshield fogged up, towards the bottom, doesn't matter what "mode" I have it on, which the a/c running.. It's a continuous battle, keeping the windshield defrosted.

Any ideals??
 

jb2

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
45
Reaction score
24
Not tryna hi-jack the thread, but my truck keeps the center of the windshield fogged up, towards the bottom, doesn't matter what "mode" I have it on, which the a/c running.. It's a continuous battle, keeping the windshield defrosted.

Any ideals??

It is probably worth your time to comb through the 5thGenRams 1500's forum given the similarities between the 1500 & 2500 HVAC systems. I recall seeing numerous forum participants posting about frustration with their foggy windshields & funky defrost capabilities. I'll paste in a couple that might be a good starting point:




(warning, ^this one is 50+ pages, so you'll be best off searching inside the thread instead of reading it all)
 

bobohio

Active Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
164
Reaction score
125
same issue, my air doesn't blow hard nor does it get super cold. when compared to the 2019 longhorn 1500 i had prior it is very weak. took it to dealer and they said it was "normal".
Same here....Dealer said it was normal...but did say they get a lot of complaints about it, but said it was normal with the new refrigerant they use
 

bobohio

Active Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
164
Reaction score
125
I've had mine in 100 degree weather and it is fine....not super cold, but adequate I guess.
I agree, not as cold as my 2016 but adequate enough I guess and I see a lot of hot weather here in Arizona
 

ramblinman

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
10
I have 2019 Big Horn Crew cab and noticed the A/C not cooling as I would expect, I basically have to turn it to max to try and keep up even on mid 80s days. I noticed it right away when I received the truck.
 

jb2

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
45
Reaction score
24
If refrigerant type was the most fundamental change Ram/FCA made to the current gens' AC's systems, refrigerant would be a proper FCA scapegoat for most of these AC performance issues. The struggle is RAM made more fundamental changes to the AC's architecture than refrigerant type (i.e. no valve to isolate the heater core when AC is on). In practice, this can be demonstrated in minutes (on most of the trucks that won't blow cold). Isolate the coolant hoses from the heater core via a removable hose clamp, the AC vent airflow temps will drop 10+ degrees moments later.... this of course with the same refrigerant type & same refrigerant pressure. There are plenty of trucks & cars out there using the current refrigerant type that do wonderfully.

Fast forward a few years into the future and Ram will add a heater core isolation valve back or Ram will have sourced an improved blend door that is up to the task. At present, it seems that some trucks have blend doors which are working as RAM hoped they would while others have troublesome. I've driven 10 or 11 of the current gen Ram's between mid-June - August during high-dew point & high-temp days. 4 of those had excellent AC performance. A handful were just ok. 3 were horrendous though. One of the benefits of test driving units off dealers' storage lots is that it normalizes for vehicle sit time & UV gain. When I mentioned significant 'unit variance' in a prior post, this was the scenario behind the comment.

A factory fix would be awesome, but if it were simple (cost-wise for them)... they already would have done it:) In house counsel & the CorpFi team probably agree it is cheaper to not admit a problem until they know how to remediate it as cheaply as possible.
 
Last edited:

savaytse66

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Messages
53
Reaction score
25
Here is the official stance from Ram. Note that the "Symptom/Vehicle Issue" is not quite accurate, but my dealer understood what I was complaining about:

Release Date: 08/15/2019

Symptom/Vehicle Issue: Customer Indicates That Temperature Varies From Side To
Side Being Colder On One Side Compared To The Other.

Discussion: If the customer's complaint matches above first verify that you can see a
notable difference, make sure that the temps are greater than the normal range of 6-7
degrees F between highest and lowest values. If it is confirmed, start by verifying AJC
pressures in the system, if it is found to be low inspect the complete system for leaks
using the dye currently in the system to find any traces of leaks. If no leaks are found
anywhere in the system, including fill points refill the system to specifications and
retest.

If after the refill with proper refrigerant levels do not improve the condition and all
components work per design with no failures or system faults do not replace any
system components at this time as this is determined to be a normal operating
characteristic. Engineering is working on improvements for the performance of the
vehicle HVAC system at this time. There is no ETA on a system update or release at
this time.

Verification: Test and compare HVAC system operation from side to side confirming
differences.
 

jb2

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
45
Reaction score
24
Release Date: 08/15/2019
If after the refill with proper refrigerant levels do not improve the condition and all
components work per design with no failures or system faults do not replace any
system components at this time as this is determined to be a normal operating
characteristic. Engineering is working on improvements for the performance of the
vehicle HVAC system at this time. There is no ETA on a system update or release at
this time.

^This is great news & fresh news assuming the 8/15/19 release date is time-stamping FCA's posture shift on current gen AC performance. Thank you for sharing the update.
 

savaytse66

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Messages
53
Reaction score
25
^This is great news & fresh news assuming the 8/15/19 release date is time-stamping FCA's posture shift on current gen AC performance. Thank you for sharing the update.

What concerns me, though it does not surprise me, is that there is no ETA. The only saving grace is that the heat of Summer is soon to let up, at least here in the Northeast, so it will be less problematic in the coming months. But without a fix my next summer, I honestly get no enjoyment out of driving the truck, despite all of it's good qualities. Good (even adequate) AC is such a necessity.

For what it's worth, I measured the 2019 1500 Classic Express that I was driving as a loaner, and it measured between 44 and 46 out of the drivers vents, a full 10+ degrees below what I am getting.
 

jb2

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
45
Reaction score
24
I'm with you..... 55-60 vent temps don't cut it for me either. I never knew that until this summer though as I've never needed to measure automobile vent temps before haha.
 

Gondul

Prince of Pintops
Joined
Mar 10, 2019
Messages
1,691
Reaction score
1,528
I will say my 19 blows cold on 90 degree days, I usually keep the fan speed on 2!

Must be nice... I don't bother with 1, 2 or 3... they don't move enough air and it certainly doesn't blow cold...
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top