2500 or 1500

[Kmayer]

Man am I going back and forth on this decision. I have a 99 F250 7.3 Powerstroke that I bought new to tow our 1995 25’ Airstream Excella Classic. The Airstream has a dry weight of 5500 and tongue weight of 700 according to the manual. We installed three solar panels and it's just my wife and I and our Golden Retriever. I would guess the loaded weight is about 6500. The Ram 1500 Limited as I would order would have a payload of about 1250 and my calculations show we need about 1050. The 1500 is rated to pull 11,250 so we're fine there.

If this was going to be nothing but a tow vehicle, I'd probably opt for the 2500 with Cummins just because the added grunt and weight would be nice to have, particularly at elevation and going through the mountains. But one of the main reasons for getting rid of the F250 is because it is brutal as a daily driver, and because of that daily driver requirement, I'm leaning towards the 1500. I might wait until they offer the eco diesel as it sounds like you'll pickup 50 lbs of torque or so.

What do you think? I just drove both the other day, and they both drive amazing and are quiet and refined. But the 1500 is clearly the more pleasant experience and more manageable around town. Having said that, they both are light years ahead of the F250 on every level.

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[Deleted member 80]

If you can get OK with the stiffer ride, the added heft of the 2500 will be a much more relaxed vehicle to tow with, even if you get the 6.4 gasser with the 8 speed. The half-ton will get pushed around by a trailer that size, despite the ratings.

 

[Jeffmc306]

Kmayer, welcome to the forum!

I’m right there with you and can offer some very current experience towing a 2019 27’ Airstream Globetrotter with our 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie that’s got 1220 lbs. payload. We leased the truck after shopping for a tow vehicle to replace our VW Touareg TDI. The diesel had the power but only had 1160 lbs. payload. We were told the Ram had 1840 lbs. payload at the time of sale but didn’t discover the 1220 lbs. payload until weeks later and reading the door sticker.

We’re working with the dealer to swap for a 2500 because we’re over the 4100 lbs. rear axle max with the trailer on the hitch (CAT scale).

Until this is settled we’re towing with the Ram 1500 and just got back from a shake-down camping trip to Baraboo, WI. I can tell you the Hemi and 3.92 worked well pulling the trailer but there were times my wife asked “is the engine supposed to sound that loud”? We hit some steep hills and downshifted to 5th and hit 5,000 RPM. Again, pulled without straining but was definitely working at it. Our concern is we’re heading to the Colorado Rockies in August and are worried about both up and down the mountains. The 1500 does feel a little light when the Globetrotter is connected. We’re using a Blue Ox Sway Pro WD hitch and 1000# bars.

I was leaning towards a 2019 Laramie 2500 6.4 Hemi but after our trip I’m thinking a Big Horn and Cummins would be the smarter choice. I wouldn’t be able to afford the Safety Group on the 2500 where I’ve got the Adaptive Cruise on the 1500 and it works great when towing.

Hope that helps!
Jeff

 

[Kmayer]

Thank you Jeff and 1hasbeen for your thoughts. Jeff, nice looking rig! Your experience is obviously very pertinent and valuable. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I would love to hear how you feel as a comparison after you get the 2500! We just returned from a trip from Seattle to Jackson WY, Sun Valley ID, and a bunch of other mountainous points in between. Prior to leaving, I was leaning towards the 1500 but after one 10% grade into Jackson and a host of 6%, 7% and 8% grades on this trip, I'm leaning towards the 2500 / Cummins. I think that actual exterior dimensions of the 2500 is not that much bigger than the 1500, and the ride is pretty darn good too. Crap. Wish you could switch from 1500 to 2500 with the push of a button.

 

[Ogamiitto]

hi, Kmayer...i'm new to the forum as well and i'm somewhat in your situation. i've detailed that in my intro thread here....

https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?...e-truck-buyer-here-could-use-some-advice.455/

maybe our discussion can help you out a bit.

i'm a little short on time, so apologies if this sounds a little curt ( or if i've misunderstood you), but i wouldn't go for either. i have a 2019 25' Airstream FC FB myself, the tounge weight is a little heacvier than yours. about 833 lbs. and i'm opting for a 3500.

simply put, pretty much for payload reasons. if you go for diesel in your 2500, and equip it well, you're looking at a payload capacity of 1700lbs -2000lbs. not much of a gain when you're going through all the trouble a cost of making a change.

i'm sure you have the same problem a lot of us owners of airstreams have, and that's little outside storage. so a lot of that stuff ends up getting stored on your TV. or in your rig, leaving you to haul in and out when you want to leave your campground ( for those items worth stealing that is). a 3500 would solve a lot of that with it's truck bed. i'm looking forward to keeping items like my tool bag, generators, air compressor etc. staying in the bed of my truck.

there are other reasons as well, but payload is a biggie for me. i just wouldn't want you to go through all this to only get a vehicle that is marginally better for you.

if you get a hemi instead on a 2500, that solves that issue better. not enough, IMO....but better.

 

[Ogamiitto]

....I was leaning towards a 2019 Laramie 2500 6.4 Hemi but after our trip I’m thinking a Big Horn and Cummins would be the smarter choice. I wouldn’t be able to afford the Safety Group on the 2500 where I’ve got the Adaptive Cruise on the 1500 and it works great when towing.....

i'd offer the same advice to you as i did Kmeyer, and that's to go with the 3500. especially if you're considering a diesel in a 2500. i remember coming to this realization, after folks pointed it out to me on the Airstream forum, when i saw a 2500 limited, fully loaded on the lot. with the diesel engine having a payload capacity of 1760lbs. IMO, that is not enough for towing a 25ft rig, plus luggage and family. since we have the same size rig, you can take that 833lb tongue weight right off of that number leaving you with not much room for anything else.

 

[Jeffmc306]

i'd offer the same advice to you as i did Kmeyer, and that's to go with the 3500. especially if you're considering a diesel in a 2500. i remember coming to this realization, after folks pointed it out to me on the Airstream forum, when i saw a 2500 limited, fully loaded on the lot. with the diesel engine having a payload capacity of 1760lbs. IMO, that is not enough for towing a 25ft rig, plus luggage and family. since we have the same size rig, you can take that 833lb tongue weight right off of that number leaving you with not much room for anything else.

Yes, your logic is spot-on and mentioned by Gondol, another poster who went with a 2500 gas because it’s got over 3000# payload. By the way, he just traded up from a 2019 Ram 1500 Limited to his new 2500 a few weeks ago.

I gave it a lot of thought and even checked the door stickers on this forum for 2500 Big Horn Cummins. If I can get 2000# of payload we’d be fine. It’s just the two of us, a Cairn Terrier and occasionally the Champion Dual Fuel 3400 Generator. Maybe some bikes too. I’m less worried about being over the payload on the 2500 with the larger axles compared to the 4100# max on the 1500.

Our problem comes down to $$$$. The cheapest 3500 Cummins with Towing Technology I could find within 150 miles is $72K. I found 4 well equipped 2500 Big Horns with Cummins + Tow Technology in the $65K range. Or, if we want gas, we could have a 2500 Laramie with Towing Technology plus the Safety Group (adaptive cruise, autonomous braking).

Yes, I know $65K is not much less but on a 3 year lease, $72K is significantly more monthly. We’re leasing because we don’t know how long we’ll be traveling. God willing and health stays good, it could be longer.

Guess I need to buy a lottery ticket then get that 3500 Limited with the HO Cummins and be done with it!

 

[Ogamiitto]

Our problem comes down to $$$$. The cheapest 3500 Cummins with Towing Technology I could find within 150 miles is $72K. I found 4 well equipped 2500 Big Horns with Cummins + Tow Technology in the $65K range. Or, if we want gas, we could have a 2500 Laramie with Towing Technology plus the Safety Group (adaptive cruise, autonomous braking).

Yes, I know $65K is not much less but on a 3 year lease, $72K is significantly more monthly. We’re leasing because we don’t know how long we’ll be traveling. God willing and health stays good, it could be longer.

Guess I need to buy a lottery ticket then get that 3500 Limited with the HO Cummins and be done with it!

yeah, i completely understand. given that for my situation, this was a change that came all of a sudden. so , money is a concern for me as well. for, me, i just don't want to make a change in vehicles and be back here in less than a year having to change out again because i didn't consider the larger picture.

i can understand leasing. personally, that's the way i usually go because i just don't want to put much of my capital in a car. but, since i've been looking for HD rigs, everyone's been telly me that the residuals are so bad that i'd be better of buying. i'm sure that doesn't help much, but maybe this does.... Dennis Dillon Ram in Idaho seems to have great prices when ordering a rig. way under invoice. now it varies on the configuration you come up with, but i can save a little over 10k off MSRP when i consider ordering.

good luck to you.

 

[Kmayer]

Hi Ogamiitto. Thanks very much for your thoughts on the 3500 and gas vs. diesel. For my purposes, i think the 2500 will have plenty of payload even with the diesel, and I'm pretty partial to Diesel after having enjoyed he powerstroke for 20 years. Having said that, I'm not yet clear on the differences between the 2500 vs. 3500. I think the 3500 has things such as leaf vs. coil springs in the rear which while increasing payload would decrease daily driver comfort. My gut feeling right now is that the 2500 with cummins will be the sweet spot assuming we go HD which is my inclination right now.

Thanks a bunch. Kevin

 

[arwright]

Hi Ogamiitto. Thanks very much for your thoughts on the 3500 and gas vs. diesel. For my purposes, i think the 2500 will have plenty of payload even with the diesel, and I'm pretty partial to Diesel after having enjoyed he powerstroke for 20 years. Having said that, I'm not yet clear on the differences between the 2500 vs. 3500. I think the 3500 has things such as leaf vs. coil springs in the rear which while increasing payload would decrease daily driver comfort. My gut feeling right now is that the 2500 with cummins will be the sweet spot assuming we go HD which is my inclination right now.

Thanks a bunch. Kevin

What payload are you hoping for out of a 2500?

 

[Kmayer]

Anything over 1500 would work for my requirements. My very preliminary research makes me think a loaded limited Cummins non mega would be 1800 or so?

 

[Ogamiitto]

Anything over 1500 would work for my requirements. My very preliminary research makes me think a loaded limited Cummins non mega would be 1800 or so?

you'll definitely get 1500lb at least....but i don't think you'll get over 1900lb. if you're comfortable in that window, then i guess you'll be fine.

my opinion stems from seeing a dozen or so door jam stickers as i was researching my own choice, but i'm far from an expert and look forward to one chiming in on this.

 

[Kmayer]

You certainly would be better educated on that front than me. Thanks for the input. I guess the positive side of not having too much payload is it makes you decide what you really need with you!

 

[Ogamiitto]

You certainly would be better educated on that front than me. Thanks for the input. I guess the positive side of not having too much payload is it makes you decide what you really need with you!

not to press the issue...but if ride quality was a concern of the 3500, you should take a test drive. i did when i thought about going that direction. especially having heard concerns of that ride quality. i test drove a Laramie mega cam with the HO Cummins and bench seats. i had a friend in the back seat and went trues some newly paved streets, bad streets and on the highway. i have to say i found it fine and the seat super comfortable. more than i expected on a medium trim level. the size of the two was essentially the same, the price difference nominal so i had no problem going that direction.

 

[Gondul]

Howdy... I did get rid of the 1500 Limited for the 2500 Limited 6.4.

I fall into that middle grey towing area where I could go either way... after much discussion and number crunching we felt the 6.4 2500 would better suit our needs.

The 2500 is also my 'daily driver' when I can't ride the motorcycle (15 miles to work) and I currently have a 5x8 which I can now replace with something larger.
I'm ok with the 'hit' on gas when towing something bigger, we won't be towing on the interstate unless we have to and would prefer sticking to back roads...we are looking at a 25-30 ft Airstream ourselves.

This thread has several different builds I found with payloads... hopefully it will help you.

Payload info

 

[maxsteel]

IMO, if you know you will only ever tow a modest size TT and not a fifth wheel, get the 2500. If you want to leave your options open to a fifth wheel in the future, get the 3500.

That said, as someone who has made this mistake before...get the 3500.

 

[Omarf4]

Just traded in my ‘19 Laramie Longhorn for a ‘19 Laramie with 3.73 axle and read air suspension. I was in your same situation and the 1500 rode extremely well for a daily driver. But, I was pushing 90% of my towing capacity and over the payload capacity of the 1500. With the 2500 Cummins, I have plenty towing margin for “extra stuff” and 500 lbs of extra payload available.

In my view, not worth the risk or hassle. A 2500 Cummins with rear air and 3.73 gear ratio will give you the peace of mind and in a crew cab, it’s still very manageable around town as a daily driver. Getting better mpg than the gas hemi.

 

[Kmayer]

Thanks guys. We love our Airstream so no 5th wheel in our future. Maybe another Airsteam someday, but after 23 years with this one, we still love it. Omarf4 your experience is really valuable and I’m pretty sure that’s where I’ll end up too. Was not sure if that rear air auto level was worth it. Sounds like you think so. Thanks.

 

[hutchman]

My experience:

We towed a small 22' Outdoors RV TT with a 2018 Rebel. ORV products are built heavy both in overall weight and on the tounge. It weighrd about 6800# loaded and 1000# on the tounge. I spent quite a bit of time setting the hitch up and it towed like a dream. No shimmey or weaveing at all. It was a "one finger" towing experience.

If you are not aware, Rebels with the 5.7 come with 3.92 gears, so that helped.

So with that being said, my rear axle wt was exactly on the RAWR....not s pound to spare and loaded with me and my wife, the truck was over the GVWR.

We ended up selling the trailer as it was not big enough for us, and I traded for a new 392 2500.

The 2019 1500s do have a much better tow rating than the old body style, but I'm not certain of the RAWR. My suspicion is you will run into ax,e limits much before tow rating issues.

I've towed 19,000# trailers with diesels and 11,000# with a gas truck. From my experience....you do not NEED a diesel to tow 11 or 12,000#. A gas engine makes it's power differently than a diesel and has to be driven differently.

So if I was shopping to tow your trailer, I would either be shopping for a capable 1500.....you have to watch your limits, or a 392 2500. A gas 2500 shoulg do everything you need at this point and put a smile on your face!

If you plan on getting something much larger and heavier in the future, a diesel might be a good investment.

 

[Kmayer]

Thanks for the input hutchman. I will look into the gas 2500 as well. I suspect I’ll go the the diesel just for the added low end grunt and the fact that I tend to buy and hold on to vs. trade up much.