2021 RAM 3500 Tradesman | AEV Prospector | FWC Grandby

[ramblinChet]

They say pictures are worth a thousand words so let's begin with one...


Here is a list of the options I selected along with a brief explanation for each:

BASE VEHICLE & TRIM:

2021 - My initial goal was to find a swell deal on a 2020 close to the end of the year. If I had been able to find one with the exact options I wanted and it was within a reasonable distance odds are I would be in it right now. Although the options I wanted could be found there were many other options I did not want which prevented me from closing a deal. There are not many standard cabs out there and it seems like most had the Chrome Appearance Group ($1,095) which I had no desire for. After much searching I shifted my focus to ordering a 2021 and seeing how good of a deal I would be able to find. Obviously, I found a really good deal and the rest is history.

RAM - I had been considering a new Wrangler or Gladiator for a few years but as a consumer I simply did not see the value in either of those options. Sitting in a $55-60k Rubicon left me with the feeling that I was being robbed. In contrast, while sitting in a $45-50k RAM 2500 or 3500 I felt like the deal was fair. The straw that broke my back was when a Jeep dealer would "try" to see if they could save you $500 or so dollars while the RAM dealer was willing to knock off thousands without even asking.

3500 - Originally my research led me to believe a 2500 with air bags would be perfect for my needs but there were many times where I read of 2500 owners stating they were a few hundred pounds over GVWR or they wished they had purchased a 3500. After talking with two dealers they stated that a 2500 regular cab 4x4 could not be ordered with the Automatic-Level Rear Air Suspension ($1,705). That was the fork in the road which led me to selecting a 3500. Owners of 3500s spoke of the rough ride with an empty bed but I was going to have a camper permanently installed so for my purposes the 3500 seemed like the best choice. If I do require air bags I will be happy to install Air-Lift or Firestone manual bags since my load will be constant.

Tradesman - I like to keep it simple and the Tradesman provided that in spades. If I wanted to add a few nice items that was easy enough to do but most important to me was not being forced to purchase exorbitantly priced packages with a long list of unnecessary, complex and fragile components. Yes, a 12" screen would be great but I rarely listen to the radio and like to turn a single knob to turn down the fan. There exists a great disconnect with new technology that, although it appears to be flashy, it is actually slowing us down. In this Tradesman, if I want to turn the fan higher I reach for one knob and turn it a bit, same with the temperature, radio volume, etc. The big touch screens force more interaction to accomplish the same task. Do the manufacturers perform time and motion studies and work towards simplifying tasks while driving for safety purposes or are they simply interested in selling very expensive and impossible to repair options?

Regular Cab - Now this was an easy-tough decision. It seems like most opt for a crew cab and 6.5' box and are quite happy with their choice. A close friend with that set-up removed his back seat and has quite a bit of storage space there. With a camper on the back I was left considering a 6.5' or 8' box option. Wheelbase was a key metric for my needs so a crew-cab with 8' box (169.5" WB) was not an option. It would be either regular and 8' box (140" WB) or crew and 6.5' box (149.5" WB). Since this will be a full time rig I opted for the 8' box which included a regular cab for my requirements. My thoughts centered around the fact that I do not plan to have anyone accompany me on a regular basis and I do not plan to be driving all the time. The majority of my time will be at camp and since the weather can turn nasty for a few days here and there the additional living room inside the camper would be welcome. I still believe the crew cab and 6.5' box is a very good option and ideal for most although I wanted to try something slightly different and enjoy the shortest wheelbase.

4x4 - This was possibly the easiest of all decisions. When exploring trails by default I remain in two wheel drive - this provides me with a very good measure of traction available and continuously refines my driving skills when traveling though difficult areas. If I run into problems I now have four wheel drive as an option to help correct. I have been quite surprised over the past few decades regarding the places I have been able to safely travel in two wheel drive that I never would have even considered if I had not had four wheel drive as a backup.

8' box - much of this was already covered when discussing my regular cab choice but I will say that a regular cab with an 8' box invokes an image of a classic truck. Tying that together with the base Tradesman and a selection of simple controls is a winning combination for me.

6.4L V8 Heavy Duty HEMI MDS Engine - As the standard engine this would satisfy my requirements. After talking with a number of owners regarding the 6.7L I6 Cummins Diesel Turbo Diesel option it was obvious that since I was not going to be towing a 10k plus trailer full time I would be fine with the 6.4L HEMI. Also, the entire Tier IV emissions for the modern diesels represent complexity and expensive dealer only components that I simply do not wish to involve myself with. The 6.4L is a mature engine that is very common and can be easily worked on most anywhere I travel. A great example would be the naturally aspirated low-pressure port fuel injection system - this can be examined and fixed in the parking lot while the turbo high-pressure direct injection system used in the diesel is much more complex requiring diesel engine specialists. I ran the numbers and even on mileage alone the break even for the diesel being used for a light duty application such as mine is 250-500k miles. As much as I would love to say I have a Cummins diesel under the hood it simply did not make sense for my requirements.

 

[ramblinChet]

OPTIONS:

4.10 Axle Ratio ($145) - This was a simple option for me. Much of my time will be spent below highway speeds and a good portion will involve off-road climbs and descents. With the factory tires it seem like 4.10 will be perfect for me although if I decide to switch to 35s or 37s I would re-gear. Over the past several decades I have re-geared several of my vehicles and consider it some of the most valuable money spent. I believe the 4500 and 5500 are available with factory 4.89 gears and I just wish that was an option for the 3500.

Electronic Shift-On-The-Fly Transfer Case ($295) - This was a low cost option that I went back and forth on a number for times. Since the transmission shifting would be done using a rotating electrical knob on the dash I felt it would be balanced and ok to push buttons to do the same with the transfer case. The controls are quite simple and can be fixed quickly and easily in the future if needed. And shifting a transfer case into four-low using a manual lever always seems like I am damaging something no matter how closely I follow the instructions in the owners manual.

Dual Alternators Rated at 380 Amps ($295) - This was another low cost option but instead was a rather simple decision. Since my camper will be using one or two 100 Ah batteries that will occasionally be charged by the vehicle I concluded that I would rather have it and need it as opposed to needing it and not having it. Maybe 380 amps is overkill for my application but a factory installed option for $295 is a very low risk expense in my opinion.

Engine Block Heater ($95) - Another very low cost option that may only be used a few times if ever but if I do need it someday and do not have it I will curse myself for not spending $95 for it. Since I enjoy camping in austere conditions this may be a nice option to have when firing up an engine that has been below freezing for several days. I have not researched this option much bit again, for $95 it was a simple decision.

Snow Chief Group ($555) - This includes a 220-Amp alternator, instrument panel mounted auxiliary switches, clearance lamps, LT275/70R18E OWL on/off road tires, and transfer case skid plate. In my opinion this is one of the best values for the RAM trucks. If you recall earlier where I felt like I was being robbed by Jeep for a $60k vehicle - this was completely the opposite. This is a package where I see logic and value and for $555 it was an easy choice. The larger alternator supports my thoughts as mentioned above the dual alternator discussion. The instrument panel auxiliary switches will support external lights, possible winch operation, etc. The clearance lamps are of little value to me since my camper will have them also. The larger tires and transfer case skid plate will be beneficial for off road excursions. This is a fair deal and if it cost much more I would not have opted for it but I consider it a well though out and logical package for a fair price.

Tradesman Level 1 Equipment Group ($995) - This includes Exterior Mirrors with Supplemental Signals, Exterior Mirrors Courtesy Lamps, Exterior Mirrors with Heating Element, Mirror Running Lights, Power Black Manual Tow Mirrors, Overhead Console, Overhead Cupholder Lamp, Power Windows with Front One-Touch-Down Feature, Remote Keyless-Entry, Speed-Sensitive Power-Locks and Upgraded Door Trim Panel. This was a tough decision since I was primarily interested in the tow mirrors and remote keyless-entry with power windows running a distant third. Could I do without all the other nice features, certainly. Maybe even order the tow mirrors separate but the keyless-entry did not appear to be an easy add-on. After dealing with keys wearing down, locks freezing up and admitting that power windows were not a mature technology that would probably last for a the next decade I decided to spend the extra money. Again, it this would have been over $1k I would not have selected it and been just fine but despite containing a number of options I could do just fine without there were just enough that I was able to select. In my opinion, if this was $695 it would have been an east choice - the current price pushed me right the edge of being able to justify the additional costs.

Granite Crystal Metallic Clear-Coat Exterior Paint ($200) - I had considered other colors but I decided that a subdued color looked best with the black bumper, grill, etc. Brighter colors may not show scratches as much but I will research some of the coatings that may offer additional protections. In the end, I am not that worried about it since it is a truck and I will use it as such. Sure, I am willing to make a reasonable effort to keep it looking good but I am more focused on the mechanical side versus the aesthetics.

Spray-In Bedliner ($565) - This was another option that I could easily had done without but for the price I considered it fair and worth it. The main value to me had everything to do with isolating the camper from the steel and hopefully also providing some additional friction to keep it from moving. My guess is the insulation value of the bedliner is greater when compared to steel and that alone if of some value. My camper will be permanently installed so preventing scratches and damage is not that important although if I decide to remove the camper and sell the vehicle separately some day there is some value in that. My focus is more on selecting options which value me today and not some potential buyer in the future.

Uconnect 4 with 8.4-inch Display ($795) - Another expensive option that I could easily do without but while researching this I came upon so many other owners struggling to upgrade their Uconnect 3 with 5-Inch Display maybe I was missing something. I still retained my manual controls for the heating and ventilation along with the radio and that is the only reason I even began to consider this option. Although I could not readily justify this additional expense I decided to spend the extra money since this would be such an expensive and difficult error to correct in the future. If this was a $495 option I would not have thought twice about it but after much consideration I decided that the few hundred extra was still enough when compared against a large number of owners paying even more to upgrade.

6 Speakers ($100) - This make no sense to me why they would not include six speakers in the original package but maybe RAM are just trying to squeeze a few extra dollars with this option. Again, I rarely even listen to the radio and when I do it is mostly AM stations so I do not require the best of sound reproduction but at $100 what is there to decide. Honestly, if manufacturers steered more away from expensive packages towards low cost options such as this my guess is more options would be sold and owners would be much happier.

Trailer Brake Control ($295) - Do I plan to tow a trailer? Not right now and if I were planning to tow a heavy one with brakes I would have strongly considered the 6.7L I6 Cummins but to have this safety feature available for a reasonable cost. Sign me up. If it was part of some expensive package I would be just fine without it but for the few extra hundred I can justify including it.

So, here are some numbers:

Base price with destination charges: $40,040
Added options: $4,335
Estimated Net Selling Price: $44,375

After calling and emailing a dozen plus dealers within reasonable driving distance I decided to order my truck from a nearby dealer (Quinn Motors in Gloucester, Virginia) for $40,676. With tax, tags, license and dealer fees I was $42,912 out the door. I dealt directly with Chris Quinn (804.693.2408 / chrisquinn@quinnmotors.com) and this deal was as easy as you can imagine.

For reference dealer cost (FWP) was $41,857 and hold back (HB) was $1,281. Friends and family program (FFP) was $41,513 while employee pricing (EP) was $39,964. I believe I received a fair deal from a local family owned dealer and am perfectly fine with them making a few dollars.

 

[Pronto]

Nice write up. I hope it fits your needs nicely, sounds like you thought it out pretty well. What camper are you putting on it?

 

[ramblinChet]

Nice write up. I hope it fits your needs nicely, sounds like you thought it out pretty well. What camper are you putting on it?

Thank you. After much research and debate I have placed an order for a 2021 Four Wheel Pop-Up Camper Grandby Shell.

Here is a list of the options I selected along with a brief explanation for each:

MODEL:

2021 - Very easy choice since there are virtually zero FWC campers available let alone a Grandby Shell.

Four Wheel Pop-Up Camper - This was a long and difficult decision since over the past few years I have explored a number of options. Even up until recently I was still considering Arctic Fox, Lance, Palomino, etc. although I continued to come back around to FWC. My big turn offs were the interesting interior layouts and the excessively long waiting list which is now at 52-56 weeks. The value that I see in FWC is they have a mature product, a great reputation and can be ordered in a shell configuration which will permit the owner to customize. The fact that the top collapses to save on height is beneficial to my requirements since much of my exploring will be done off-road so impact with branches, low center of gravity, etc. all matter much to me.

Grandby - This was an equally difficult decision since many owners are quite happy with a slightly shorter option. When I finally decided to design this system using a 2021 RAM 3500 Tradesman regular can 4x4 8' box the solution was obvious - a Grandby it would be. My though was that for full time use the additional space in the camper shell would be much more valuable when compared to the additional storage offered by the crew cab. On those rainy or otherwise unpleasant days where I decide to spend time indoors the additional room afforded by the Grandby will be nice.

Shell - Although FCW has a number of options available for their interior layout I just was not terribly impressed by any of them. It is only my opinion but there is much to be gained by involving a professional with designing the interior. My goal is to perform additional research and solicit input from professionals who have more knowledge in this particular area. Again, I believe the current interiors in the FWC lineup is OK but it seems improvements are possible.

OPTIONS:

Fabric: Dovetail Greystone

Powered Roof Vent Fan ($310) - Although I have spent the past 2.5 years sleeping outside every night in a James Baroud hardshell tent and have no problems with the warm or cold weather, I have not spent a single night in a FWC. The powered roof vent fan seems like a very common option and since it involves wiring and it a reasonable cost I decided it was a good idea. I requested that the fan be mounted above the bed but was told it is commonly mounted above the stove. Since I do not have a stove I do hope this can be accommodated.

Rear Floodlights LED ($295) - A close friend recently had his FWC camper delivered and I was able to experience these rear floodlights firsthand. When pulling to camp late and setting up these seem like they would be a great benefit and at $295 I consider them a reasonable cost. If they were not LED I doubt I would have purchased them and that would have left me to select lights and perform the wiring myself. I am glad this was an option.

Thermal Pack ($750) - Initially I was not going to order this since I have slept in an unheated tent at near zero degrees Fahrenheit for a few days. I reasoned that in the FWC with a heater, the Thermal Pack would not be as valuable but then I began to consider fuel use, being out in austere conditions for weeks or even months, etc. and I easily justified the additional expense. One feature I do not like is the lack of sunlight when using this type of Thermal Pack. I do wish there was a heavier clear window they were able to use for this application.

King Bed Slide-Out on Cabover Bed ($500) - Although I enjoy sleeping N-S I was willing to sleep E-W. After thinking about it and reading posts by several others who either wished they had the king bed option or had it and loved it, I decided this was worth it. My plan is to sleep mostly N-S but we will see. If I have company the king bed option will be even more valuable. Another consideration is that the king option includes four pillows whereas I believe the standard option only included two - I may be wrong on this though. Those four pillows will provide me with additional options when configuring the interior since they may be used in other applications unrelated to sleep.

Smooth Siding, Black ($895) - This is all about looks and with a Granite Crystal Metallic paint on my truck black seemed like the best choice. It would provide some contrast but again be dark enough to blend well. I had considered the Metallic Charcoal color for my camper but was unable to find any pictures which clearly showed the RAM paint and FWC paint together. Black will be fine though and although the smooth siding will be more likely to show scratches, dents and dings all will be fine.

Since I do plan to install solar up top I am already planning to use forty pound struts in the front and rear. What will be most exciting is selecting the individual components and building out the interior once the camper arrives.

Cost of base camper: $13,295
Options: $2,750
Documentation fee: $65
Destination charge: $775
Installation fee: $595
Grand total: $17,480

 

[Pronto]

Nice set up. Enjoy your overland adventures.

 

[DevilDodge]

Great choices. Thanks for running us through your decision making process.

We do a great bit of off pavement travel/dispersed camping. I have a thread here I think about some of our explorations.

We can only do it for short periods at a time.

But we too love the 8 foot bed and the Tradesman trim.

The 6.4l HEMI is great offroad. Ours has 3.73 gears and does just fine. The 4.10 is what I wish I had though...but no complaints.


Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[GeneralClortho]

Any updates?

 

[ramblinChet]

Any updates?

Still in D1 status for the past month so I am planning for a possible March or April delivery as was originally estimated.

 

[GeneralClortho]

Still in D1 status for the past month so I am planning for a possible March or April delivery as was originally estimated.

My build on paper is almost identical to yours except for a 2500 CC with very similar goals but a topper instead of a camper. I am building the truck to run the TAT amongst other overlanding and camping goals such as Big Bend, Big Bend State Park, Most mountain passes in Colorado, Moab and more.

What made you stay away from the Power Wagon with air bags to aid the camper weight? Like me, you might eye all of the technology as "cool" but also a cause for failure concerns. However, the lockers and swaybar disco's are a big plus in the bush, unless they fail.

 

[ramblinChet]

My build on paper is almost identical to yours except...

Sounds awesome and I am looking forward to hearing more and seeing some pictures. My goals are similar although I am more focused on mild to moderate roads and the associated scenery, camping, etc. I have spent much time on 4+ trails in my Jeeps and have no desire to expose my RAM to those conditions.

The Power Wagon is what initially interested me in the RAM lineup - I just wish they has an intermediate version which still supported a reasonable load. For my requirements, carrying 2k in the bed was a given. Lockers front and rear, anti-sway bar disconnects, etc. are great on the more aggressive trails I simply do not see myself experiencing those conditions 99.997% of the time.

My RAM has the factory limited slip in the read and I plan to install an ARB up front along with gearing when it becomes available. Add a mild lift, larger tires and a winch and I have nothing to worry about. I plan to spend more time camping and less driving so I opted for the standard cab and long bed.

 

[GeneralClortho]

Sounds awesome and I am looking forward to hearing more and seeing some pictures. My goals are similar although I am more focused on mild to moderate roads and the associated scenery, camping, etc. I have spent much time on 4+ trails in my Jeeps and have no desire to expose my RAM to those conditions.

The Power Wagon is what initially interested me in the RAM lineup - I just wish they has an intermediate version which still supported a reasonable load. For my requirements, carrying 2k in the bed was a given. Lockers front and rear, anti-sway bar disconnects, etc. are great on the more aggressive trails I simply do not see myself experiencing those conditions 99.997% of the time.

My RAM has the factory limited slip in the read and I plan to install an ARB up front along with gearing when it becomes available. Add a mild lift, larger tires and a winch and I have nothing to worry about. I plan to spend more time camping and less driving so I opted for the standard cab and long bed.

You make good points. I priced out adding a winch bumper, winch, front locker, small lift, wheels and tires and it exceeded the Power wagon package price, not including any labor charges. Granted it would be more custom, but in reality, the PW package price is competitive. As soon as my house refi is through, I will hopefully be putting mine on order or maybe get lucky enough to find one out there.

I have a modified Wrangler as well, but I am thinking my wife may not come with me unless I pull a small travel trailer with basic comforts for her and Gunny, the Weiner dog. This puts me back into building the RAM to be able to take on more aggressive terrain and leaving the Wrangler at home.

Enough about me. I am looking forward to your build.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Pics yet?

 

[ramblinChet]

No pictures but I did receive a call from my dealer today confirming that my truck has been built and is preparing to ship. He expects it to be arriving around mid-March.

 

[b307a1]

I can't wait to see it!

 

[ramblinChet]

We are making progress - here is my window sticker and build sheet.

 

[Darkone]

Looks like it’s moving along and you should see it before too long. Definitely a nicely optioned truck, it will be a awesome build. I have always loved the look of a reg cab long bed. Do you have any plans as far as aftermarket suspension or just going to keep things stock?

 

[ramblinChet]

Thank you Darkone - the standard cab and long wheel base is what works best for me for this project. Do you have your '21 already or are you waiting also?

These trucks are so impressive stock but I enjoy projects so this one will be receiving an AEV suspension and some larger tires. I am crossing over form the Jeep community to RAM and purchased my first AEV components back in 2001. They just do nice work. What are your plans?

 

[Darkone]

Yes, I actually got my 21 in December right before Christmas so it was an early Christmas gift to me. As far as plans for mine suspension wise I’ve been doing some research, and I am leaning towards Thuren for suspension. Nothing too tall, as I want to retain functionality for hauling a gooseneck, mainly just want to improve ride characteristics.

 

[ramblinChet]

Sounds like the biggest Christmas present I have ever heard of - congratulations! Tell me more about the Thuren suspension and what you like about it compared to the others available. Here is a great video that really sold me on AEV:

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Sounds like the biggest Christmas present I have ever heard of - congratulations! Tell me more about the Thuren suspension and what you like about it compared to the others available. Here is a great video that really sold me on AEV:

You’re making the right choice for what you want to do with the truck, IMO