Just an update for anyone who cares. Found a 2022 very close to home, but it's missing a few key options that, for the money, I would want (HK, 12" Uconnect) so I'm passing on that one. Reached out to a dealer close-ish to me that has a 23 with most options I want (minus a bed liner), but when they wouldn't budget on the $6K over market price, and the offered me 10k less on my trade than others, I walked on that one too. Found a 22 about 4hrs away with low miles, all the options I want, plus a bed cap on it, and it's almost 10k less than the overpriced 23 I referenced earlier. Trying to put a tentative deal on paper before making the drive - and if we can make the numbers work, I'll scoop her up.
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4Runner to PW
- Thread starter VTski4x4
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Riz!
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Good luck! I hope it works out for you! When it comes to deals like cars and homes, I strongly follow the if it is meant to be it will happen how, when, where, with what you want and for a price you can tolerate. If it dont happen on all of those things, It wasnt meant to be. Post fresh pics if you pick it up.
MegaRed
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Good luck! I conversed with about 15 different dealerships while on my quest for the 3500 until I found the deal and the truck that I wanted. Flew 800 miles from home to get it, but it was worth the effort.
Granted buying a used vehicle is different since you'd want eyes on it before you pulled the trigger, but that said, there are enough trucks out there that you can find the right one with a little determination.
Granted buying a used vehicle is different since you'd want eyes on it before you pulled the trigger, but that said, there are enough trucks out there that you can find the right one with a little determination.
Yeah, after playing the game so many times over the years, I've learned to not get emotionally attached to any vehicle during the buying process. The one thing that Covid seemed to do on the positive side of the vehicle market is make dealers more inclined to hash out a deal before showing up at the dealership to save time/aggravation. I refuse to even go visit a dealer unless they have taken the time to work with me prior to the visit, and on paper, we have something resembling a fair deal.
Riz!
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Same. I negotiated on two different Tradesman with the powerwagon package at the same dealer about 8 months apart but they wouldnt budge on the price of first one, claiming it was rare and priced to move at 56k after rebates on other stuff. I went home thought on it and said if in 72 hours its still there i will buy it. Went back. It was sold. The salesman, whom I had bought from before, told me (with a massive smile) that some knuckle head bought it at MSRP without negotiating.
I went back about 8 months later and got them to move to 54k on a second one (which I liked better) and then they argued on the value of my trade for my 22’ 1500 stating they could only give me 6k in equity. I owed 12 less than it was worth. I left. When I looked at their trade offer closer, they didnt include that I had a night edition, 5.7 hemi, bighorn level 2. They tried to do me dirty.
4 months after that I found a 2024 Tradesman with almost everything you can get in a tradesman except the 12” screen and no PW package. Sticker was 64k and I got it down to 48k and then got 10,500 above my payoff for the 1500. Even though I wanted a PW Tradesman, I felt like I was stealing the truck and signed on the dotted line.
I went back about 8 months later and got them to move to 54k on a second one (which I liked better) and then they argued on the value of my trade for my 22’ 1500 stating they could only give me 6k in equity. I owed 12 less than it was worth. I left. When I looked at their trade offer closer, they didnt include that I had a night edition, 5.7 hemi, bighorn level 2. They tried to do me dirty.
4 months after that I found a 2024 Tradesman with almost everything you can get in a tradesman except the 12” screen and no PW package. Sticker was 64k and I got it down to 48k and then got 10,500 above my payoff for the 1500. Even though I wanted a PW Tradesman, I felt like I was stealing the truck and signed on the dotted line.
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We’ve had a 03 4Runner for 20 years and over 200K miles. We’ve loved that rig, and will keep it for a long time to come, but the wife wanted a new rig and the kids are driving the 4Runner now.
The 4Runner was the obvious choice based on our experience, but we ended up getting her a JTR and it’s been great, for what she does a HD is too big.. thou we did consider it.
Anyhow, I just had a ‘24 4Runner TRD Sport rental for the week and put ~ 500 miles on it. Yuck, I couldn’t be more disappointed in what has gotten worse on the 4Runners in the last 20 years. The 5 speed auto was slow to shift, acted funny, and even downshifted to 3rd at 70 on flat ground in CC (not how A750’s have driven in the past). The overall feel of the rig was cheap, and they aren’t. I’m quite pleased with our decision to stray from Toyota (owned a few over the last 25+ years).
The JTR is a far nicer vehicle to drive and load… so while you had issues with your JLUR if you find the PW to be more truck than you want, or you can’t find one with the options you want, I’d really look at a JTR.
The 4Runner was the obvious choice based on our experience, but we ended up getting her a JTR and it’s been great, for what she does a HD is too big.. thou we did consider it.
Anyhow, I just had a ‘24 4Runner TRD Sport rental for the week and put ~ 500 miles on it. Yuck, I couldn’t be more disappointed in what has gotten worse on the 4Runners in the last 20 years. The 5 speed auto was slow to shift, acted funny, and even downshifted to 3rd at 70 on flat ground in CC (not how A750’s have driven in the past). The overall feel of the rig was cheap, and they aren’t. I’m quite pleased with our decision to stray from Toyota (owned a few over the last 25+ years).
The JTR is a far nicer vehicle to drive and load… so while you had issues with your JLUR if you find the PW to be more truck than you want, or you can’t find one with the options you want, I’d really look at a JTR.
Thanks for the reply. I actually did look at JTs when they first came out, but they don't really fit the bill for us. We have a 74lb working dog, and a 105lb Great Pyrenees, and they barely fit in the trunk of the 4R (which is big) - the JT backseat wasn't even close.
stickshifter
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You are correct - the manual t-case in the PW is not a manual linkage (at least not in the 2024 model year).
I have a 2024 Tradesman with the Power Wagon package, and I had to replace the transfer case module within the first couple of weeks of ownership (covered under warranty). For better or for worse, the 4-wheel drive system in these newer PWs is full of electronics and ECUs.
My guess is that the only new vehicle coming with a manual transfer-case that actually has a manual linkage is the Ineos Grenadier.
stickshifter
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Our current vehicles are a 2024 Power Wagon (actually a Tradesman with the PW package), a 2019 4-Runner Off-Road, and a 1997 Tacoma. I traded in a 2017 Tacoma for the PW.
In seven years of ownership, my 2017 Tacoma never went into the shop for a "problem". I changed the oil more often than the dealer recommends, and did all the other regular service, but I never had any failures. The engine lacked low-end torque, and the front rotors warp really easily, but it was super reliable. In five years of ownership the 4-Runner has never been in the shop for any type of failure. The 1997 Tacoma has had "some work done" - as they say in Hollywood.
In nine weeks of ownership of the PW I've had it to the dealer repeatedly and I'm going back again this week. First it was a flashing "Axle Unlock" light (which should be a steady orange to indicate that both axles are unlocked), then the "Service 4-Wheel Drive" message came on. The dealer replaced the transfer case module, and everything was good for a while.
But a couple of weeks later, I started getting a flashing light saying "Sway Bar Disconnect Unavailable", and then a light saying "4WD Shift in Progress" (even though I had been driving in 4-High for a few miles). Then another light saying "Service Electronic Stability Control". Then the "4WD" Light (which comes on to indicate that you are in 4WD) went out, and I lost access to 4-wheel drive (on an icy back-road covered in fresh snow). The dealer had it a couple of times, but couldn't replicate the problem. It is possible that I resolved this set of problems when I seated all the fuses - which came from the factory not fully seated.
Just in the last few days, the "Axle Unlock" light has been flashing, and I go back to the dealer in a couple of days.
Do I regret buying the PW? No - definitely not. My assumption is that I will work through these electrical gremlins. If I'm still having electrical issues in a year, or if I lose 4-wheel drive in the backcountry, I'll be singing a different tune.
The obvious: the PW is much bigger than a 4-Runner. This is obvious, but it is the biggest potential downside. Of course it is also an upside - it just depends on what you are doing.
The PW is a great truck if you need/want a big 4-wheel drive truck, with a solid front axle, lockers, and a disconnecting front swaybar. You probably already know this, but while the PW is a 2500 in size it is not a "regular" 2500 with regard to payload capacity or towing capacity. But everything about the truck - except the springs and shocks - is regular 2500 - so it is built like a tank compared to a 4-Runner or Tacoma. The engine is awesome, and the ZF 8-speed is really good. The ZF in the 2500 is a heavy duty transmission, and it is not quite as smooth as the less-beefy versions of the ZF 8-speed (like in the 3.6 Wrangler, 3.6 Gladiator, or in the Ineos Grenadier). But the 5-speed in the 4-Runner is truly ancient. If the 4-Runner had a ZF 8-speed they probably could have sold that 4.0 V6 for another 20 years. The PW is great on the highway: plenty of power, quiet, and the steering is super-precise for a solid front axle vehicle. I don't have any play in the steering wheel. We like having both the PW and something the size of a 4-Runner. If the Grenadier still looks good in a few years, we may trade in the 4-Runner for one of those. But if you are looking at going from a 4-Runner to a PW, you have got to be okay with the change in size.
In seven years of ownership, my 2017 Tacoma never went into the shop for a "problem". I changed the oil more often than the dealer recommends, and did all the other regular service, but I never had any failures. The engine lacked low-end torque, and the front rotors warp really easily, but it was super reliable. In five years of ownership the 4-Runner has never been in the shop for any type of failure. The 1997 Tacoma has had "some work done" - as they say in Hollywood.
In nine weeks of ownership of the PW I've had it to the dealer repeatedly and I'm going back again this week. First it was a flashing "Axle Unlock" light (which should be a steady orange to indicate that both axles are unlocked), then the "Service 4-Wheel Drive" message came on. The dealer replaced the transfer case module, and everything was good for a while.
But a couple of weeks later, I started getting a flashing light saying "Sway Bar Disconnect Unavailable", and then a light saying "4WD Shift in Progress" (even though I had been driving in 4-High for a few miles). Then another light saying "Service Electronic Stability Control". Then the "4WD" Light (which comes on to indicate that you are in 4WD) went out, and I lost access to 4-wheel drive (on an icy back-road covered in fresh snow). The dealer had it a couple of times, but couldn't replicate the problem. It is possible that I resolved this set of problems when I seated all the fuses - which came from the factory not fully seated.
Just in the last few days, the "Axle Unlock" light has been flashing, and I go back to the dealer in a couple of days.
Do I regret buying the PW? No - definitely not. My assumption is that I will work through these electrical gremlins. If I'm still having electrical issues in a year, or if I lose 4-wheel drive in the backcountry, I'll be singing a different tune.
The obvious: the PW is much bigger than a 4-Runner. This is obvious, but it is the biggest potential downside. Of course it is also an upside - it just depends on what you are doing.
The PW is a great truck if you need/want a big 4-wheel drive truck, with a solid front axle, lockers, and a disconnecting front swaybar. You probably already know this, but while the PW is a 2500 in size it is not a "regular" 2500 with regard to payload capacity or towing capacity. But everything about the truck - except the springs and shocks - is regular 2500 - so it is built like a tank compared to a 4-Runner or Tacoma. The engine is awesome, and the ZF 8-speed is really good. The ZF in the 2500 is a heavy duty transmission, and it is not quite as smooth as the less-beefy versions of the ZF 8-speed (like in the 3.6 Wrangler, 3.6 Gladiator, or in the Ineos Grenadier). But the 5-speed in the 4-Runner is truly ancient. If the 4-Runner had a ZF 8-speed they probably could have sold that 4.0 V6 for another 20 years. The PW is great on the highway: plenty of power, quiet, and the steering is super-precise for a solid front axle vehicle. I don't have any play in the steering wheel. We like having both the PW and something the size of a 4-Runner. If the Grenadier still looks good in a few years, we may trade in the 4-Runner for one of those. But if you are looking at going from a 4-Runner to a PW, you have got to be okay with the change in size.
Thanks for taking the time to reply with your thoughts and experiences. IF it was up to me, we would be getting rid of the wife's Rogue and keeping the 4R and getting the PW - unfortunately the Rogue came along before I was involved in her finances and I'm not willing to shell out the $$$ to not take a bath on it. Such is life (she also hates the 4R for some reason).
The PW is exactly the same length as my 2015 Silverado CCLB that I sold years ago, and narrower than my Raptor - so it's sort of an in-between size. That won't be an issue.
I'm personally fine with the 4R - but happy wife, happy life. We do a lot of road trips and putting aside that the 4R barely cuts it space wise with our dogs, the wife doesn't like riding in it. Idk why, but it is what it is.
The PW suits us perfectly - and I don't tow often at all, and when I do, it's 5000lbs or less. I usually use my work truck (F250 LB) for work, but it's an XL and rides like ****. It will be nice to have a truck again for delivering units and doing long sales trips. Much nicer than an XL LB with a 6.2L, cloth interior, broken stereo etc.
Looks like i have a PW locked down - should be finalizing the deal this week. 2022 with super low miles, 1 owner, and all options I want (minus manual TC).
stickshifter
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Sounds like a good fit for you! I think it’s a much better vehicle for long trips with dogs and gear etc. good luck with the purchase!
SolidAxleorBust
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The Rogue is a terrible economy car with a short life expectancy, I would dump it for sure. But yes, buying an American Truck over a foreign one ( new junk Toyotas asside) is a trial for your patience and wallet. On my 2018 Front locker and sway bar required some 7K in aftermarket just to be useable. To make you feel better, the Grenadier is shockingly reliable, but a couple of things are not, including the cable actuated t/case that needed a cheap revised cable stay. (other is cheap front Jeep driveshaft design)
Supposed to make the trade tomorrow - getting cold feet. So hard to go from the last of the 5th Gens - especially a TRD Pro - to something that I question the reliability of. So many positive on both, and so many negatives. I really don't know which way the wind is blowing me. I trade cars like baseball cars - and this is the first time I can remember a trade giving me pause/2nd thoughts.
Riz!
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If thats the case then Ide suggest you revisit your thoughts on what caused you to hunt for the PW in the first place. If those reasons still apply and the PW meets those needs better, is within budget and you can live with the gas mileage, you are probably on the right track.
I can say even though I know there could be issues with my 2500 (and already have - transfer case output seal leaked, but was replaced in a day under warranty) I really do love the truck. Vehicles are machines and even a Lamborghini will fail at some point.
I can say even though I know there could be issues with my 2500 (and already have - transfer case output seal leaked, but was replaced in a day under warranty) I really do love the truck. Vehicles are machines and even a Lamborghini will fail at some point.
IPASooner
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My wife drives a 2023 TRD Pro 4Runner and I have a 2021 PW. I love both vehicles and they are both total beasts off road. For me I prefer the PW as a daily drive for the size, comfort, technology, V8 power/transmission. We generally take my PW every time we do road trips with my family (two kids).
Not sure if it makes a difference but I have had my PW for 4 years and have 40K miles on it. Only issue was in the first week of ownership (bought it new) the swaybar disconnect mechanism had to be replaced by the dealer. Other than that I have basically had 0 issues. It has been a great truck. Mostly drive around town with lots of stop and go and have taken it on some tougher off road trails in NH, ME and VT and have had 0 issues. Even got to use the winch to move fallen trees off the trail. It is still my favorite vehicle I have ever owned it it brings me so much joy every time I even look back at it after I have parked and am walking away.
This is very helpful - thank you. I do love the 4R - but then I think back to the roadtrips we did in my Silverado and Raptor - and they were so much more comfortable. Sure, parking can be a PITA - but I'm used to that living in a 350yr old town. As much as I despise the wife's Rogue - it's got low miles, all the bells and whistles she wants, and if we need a smaller car - we can take that. It's sort of a situation where we have two vehicles that are the same size, one being much better offroad, but other than that (and reliability) - it really doesn't do anything for us besides look good, and run with no issues (and be a beast in the snow).
UglyViking
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Hey, you're in the same neighborhood as me! If you ever wanna hit some trails with another fullsize let me know!
UglyViking
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@VTski4x4 As has been said, if you're getting cold feet it may be a sign. Honestly, no one knows your situation like you. I don't know your space, financial situation, etc. but one thing I'll say is that there have been vehicles I strongly regretted selling, others I couldn't wait to sell, and some I've been ambivalent about. If you're already feeling the pains of selling it, it's probably best to wait. Our gut is often speaking to us, just in ways it's hard to fully grasp.
One other quick comment. Toyota is def known for reliability, but I think it's not a fair playing field. Toyota is using old tech in that 4runner for the most part. If it has what you want/need out of it, then by all means it's good. For the most part, this idea that with any toyota you won't have any issues except oil changes, tire changes and fuel isn't the actual case. Toyota are more prone to issues than people are willing to admit, and other brands are less. The fact of the matter is that for years now, most brands are pretty comparable in terms of reliability, with certain outliers. Your new PW may not be quite as reliable as your current toyota, but it's not going to be so insanely different that you're constantly fighting with it. If that were the case, ram wouldn't sell damn near as many as they do.
One other quick comment. Toyota is def known for reliability, but I think it's not a fair playing field. Toyota is using old tech in that 4runner for the most part. If it has what you want/need out of it, then by all means it's good. For the most part, this idea that with any toyota you won't have any issues except oil changes, tire changes and fuel isn't the actual case. Toyota are more prone to issues than people are willing to admit, and other brands are less. The fact of the matter is that for years now, most brands are pretty comparable in terms of reliability, with certain outliers. Your new PW may not be quite as reliable as your current toyota, but it's not going to be so insanely different that you're constantly fighting with it. If that were the case, ram wouldn't sell damn near as many as they do.
IPASooner
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Yeah, would be great! Will send you a message
Docwagon1776
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While not arguing against your point, there are other suspension components that are different as well. The articulink on the front radius arms being a major one, which allows more articulation over the standard 2500s.