Regens at alarming rate!

[HighlandRidge]

AIR FILTER?

Just my $0.02

I replaced my air filter in September 2022. Drove from South Florida to Northern Utah pulling a 16K # 5th wheel without issue. Truck pulled like a champ.

About 10 days ago, my check engine light lit up. I was only driving local short trips with NO load for several weeks prior (since early July). Also the automatic regeneration process lit up - that was the first time I seen that message pop up on my dashboard.

I made an appointment with a local RAM dealer to diagnose the check engine light.., also to inquire about TWO open recall issues for my Truck (NHTSA Recall #23V-060 + Y43 - The Particulate Matter Sensor and Module on your vehicle [1] may not have been installed during the manufacturing process !!) WTF?!

After about three hours I asked the service manager to inform me what is going on with my truck. He went to speak with the tech and returned to inform me the wrong filter was installed and must be replaced to continue - he would NOT tell me what code was causing the check engine light. They also insisted on replacing the fuel filters (68% life left) since they had no record of their replacement - quoted estimate of $400!

It was at that moment I knew I needed to find another RAM service provided, turned around and walked away.

I ordered the Fleetguard air filter directly from Cummins and installed it a couple days later.

Here's the Fram filter/made in USA ~ VS ~ a Fleetguard / made in the USA
VS. with the exception of a slight variation of color, they appear identical

Fram bottom with about 6K miles Fleetguard (NEW)
VS with the exception of a slight variation of color and glue strip, they appear identical.

I have only run the engine about 40 highway miles (75 mph) with the new Fleetguard but the check engine light remains lit and there is no discernible difference driving the vehicle.

At this point I plan to visit a local auto parts store and have them tell me what code is triggering the check engine light since my local RAM dealer is only interested in separating me from my money. IMO, the controversy surrounding the air filter with a glue strip is just hype / money grab to get people to buy their filter.

Off to find a local auto parts store to get some answers...,

 

[mbarber84]

I installed Fleetguard filer p/n AF27684 to replace a unknown filter with glue strips. I did notice the fleet guard filter had glue between the pleats but not a glue strip. 500 miles later, regens are still happening every 100 or so miles with 60 miles needed to regen DPF. Last regen was came with a P2459 code and took 150 miles and 2.5 hours or highway driving to clear DPF.

I just order the mopar p/n 53034051AB to try.

If you didn’t see any appreciable change after installing Fleetguard AF27684, your problem lies elsewhere. Mopar 53034051AB is identical to the fleetguard. Are you sure the Fleetguard you installed was a legitimate one, not an Amazon copy or imitation?

When you are in regeneration are you traveling on the highway at 60mph or higher constantly?

Are you allowing your regeneration cycles to finish on the highway or interrupting them?

What model year truck and have you had it to the dealer after P2459?

 

[HighlandRidge]

AIR FILTER?

Just my $0.02

I replaced my air filter in September 2022. Drove from South Florida to Northern Utah pulling a 16K # 5th wheel without issue. Truck pulled like a champ.

About 10 days ago, my check engine light lit up. I was only driving local short trips with NO load for several weeks prior (since early July). Also the automatic regeneration process lit up - that was the first time I seen that message pop up on my dashboard.

I made an appointment with a local RAM dealer to diagnose the check engine light.., also to inquire about TWO open recall issues for my Truck (NHTSA Recall #23V-060 + Y43 - The Particulate Matter Sensor and Module on your vehicle [1] may not have been installed during the manufacturing process !!) WTF?!

After about three hours I asked the service manager to inform me what is going on with my truck. He went to speak with the tech and returned to inform me the wrong filter was installed and must be replaced to continue - he would NOT tell me what code was causing the check engine light. They also insisted on replacing the fuel filters (68% life left) since they had no record of their replacement - quoted estimate of $400!

It was at that moment I knew I needed to find another RAM service provided, turned around and walked away.

I ordered the Fleetguard air filter directly from Cummins and installed it a couple days later.

Here's the Fram filter/made in USA ~ VS ~ a Fleetguard / made in the USA
View attachment 62508 VS. View attachment 62509 with the exception of a slight variation of color, they appear identical

Fram bottom with about 6K miles Fleetguard (NEW)
View attachment 62510 VS View attachment 62511 with the exception of a slight variation of color and glue strip, they appear identical.

I have only run the engine about 40 highway miles (75 mph) with the new Fleetguard but the check engine light remains lit and there is no discernible difference driving the vehicle.

At this point I plan to visit a local auto parts store and have them tell me what code is triggering the check engine light since my local RAM dealer is only interested in separating me from my money. IMO, the controversy surrounding the air filter with a glue strip is just hype / money grab to get people to buy their filter.

Off to find a local auto parts store to get some answers...,

Okay, I received my answer..,

The RAM dealer lied directly to my face - tried to sell me $400 worth of air + fuel filters I do NOT need.

AutoZone ran a diagnostic tool which indicated the check engine light is due to the "Diesel Particulate Filter" (DPF) -



(While driving to the local AutoZone, the automatic regeneration process lit up again - this is the second time within 30 miles!)

This is a serious problem that RAM needs to get a grip on.

 

[mbarber84]

Okay, I received my answer..,

The RAM dealer lied directly to my face - tried to sell me $400 worth of air + fuel filters I do NOT need.

AutoZone ran a diagnostic tool which indicated the check engine light is due to the "Diesel Particulate Filter" (DPF) -

View attachment 62548

(While driving to the local AutoZone, the automatic regeneration process lit up again - this is the second time within 30 miles!)

This is a serious problem that RAM needs to get a grip on.

When your cycle starts are you continuing to drive on the highway until the cycle ends?

How rapidly does your DPF gauge accumulate a reading and how fast does that reading return after finishing a regeneration?

 

[HighlandRidge]

When your cycle starts are you continuing to drive on the highway until the cycle ends?

How rapidly does your DPF gauge accumulate a reading and how fast does that reading return after finishing a regeneration?

I really didn't expect to see another automatic regen process within 30 miles of the last one.

So when the message popped up, I put the truck in park to see the meter and it was at about 25%.

I continued driving and engaged the engine brake thinking that may help while going down some long steep grades in my area - The process completed in less than 10 miles.

The Majority of the driving I do is on the highway and I tend to lean into the throttle getting up to speed (75+) quickly, however, my commute is only about 9 miles each way. There is only one stop light along my route & I rarely let the truck idle - (I'm out on the road at 3am - NO traffic).

 

[mbarber84]

I really didn't expect to see another automatic regen process within 30 miles of the last one.

So when the message popped up, I put the truck in park to see the meter and it was at about 25%.

I continued driving and engaged the engine brake thinking that may help while going down some long steep grades in my area - The process completed in less than 10 miles.

The Majority of the driving I do is on the highway and I tend to lean into the throttle getting up to speed (75+) quickly, however, my commute is only about 9 miles each way. There is only one stop light along my route & I rarely let the truck idle - (I'm out on the road at 3am - NO traffic).

These cycles usually take 20-25 minutes at highway speed (70mph) and will reduce the DPF reading from 50% to 0% in that time period.

There are only two triggers that will start an active regeneration while driving:

1. An accumulation of soot in the DPF sufficient to register 50% on the DPF gauge in the EVIC

Or

2. 24 hours of engine operation accumulated without an active regeneration in that period.

If your truck is triggering an active regeneration with a DPF gauge reading of 25%, you’re either seeing a 24 hour regeneration start,

Or

The previous cycle didn’t complete and it’s picking up where it left off once the emissions system and engine parameters are suitable for a regeneration again.

These trucks do not trigger regeneration based on soot load at 25%.

 

[HighlandRidge]

How rapidly does your DPF gauge accumulate a reading and how fast does that reading return after finishing a regeneration?

I haven't really been paying attention until my recent visit with the RAM dealer - the line they fed me about the air filter didn't make sense to me and that's how I found this thread..., looking for answers.

I clicked an image of the odometer from the last regen about a week ago. It's Almost exactly 30 miles from last auto regen process.

From this point on, I will keep the DPF filter gauge on the dash lit up with a close eye on it.

 

[HighlandRidge]

These cycles usually take 20-25 minutes at highway speed (70mph) and will reduce the DPF reading from 50% to 0% in that time period.

There are only two triggers that will start an active regeneration while driving:

1. An accumulation of soot in the DPF sufficient to register 50% on the DPF gauge in the EVIC

Or

2. 24 hours of engine operation accumulated without an active regeneration in that period.

If your truck is triggering an active regeneration with a DPF gauge reading of 25%, you’re either seeing a 24 hour regeneration start,

Or

The previous cycle didn’t complete and it’s picking up where it left off once the emissions system and engine parameters are suitable for a regeneration again.

These trucks do not trigger regeneration based on soot load at 25%.

Well, my truck has an open recall (Y43) which indicates: "The Particulate Matter Sensor and Module on your vehicle [1] may not have been installed during the manufacturing process..,"

Something is definitely NOT right.

It doesn't help that the local RAM dealer lied straight to my face about the air filter triggering the engine light.

 

[HighlandRidge]

These cycles usually take 20-25 minutes at highway speed (70mph) and will reduce the DPF reading from 50% to 0% in that time period.

There are only two triggers that will start an active regeneration while driving:

1. An accumulation of soot in the DPF sufficient to register 50% on the DPF gauge in the EVIC

Or

2. 24 hours of engine operation accumulated without an active regeneration in that period.

If your truck is triggering an active regeneration with a DPF gauge reading of 25%, you’re either seeing a 24 hour regeneration start,

Or

The previous cycle didn’t complete and it’s picking up where it left off once the emissions system and engine parameters are suitable for a regeneration again.

These trucks do not trigger regeneration based on soot load at 25%.

I snapped a pic of the last time this happened


I drove at highway speeds (75+) until completion - (less than 15 miles).

that was actually about two weeks ago - (Time flys)

It just happened again today - at 25% - I drove it until it completed - Less than 10 miles - engine brake on during long steep declines (mountains north of SLC)

 

[mbarber84]

Well, my truck has an open recall (Y43) which indicates: "The Particulate Matter Sensor and Module on your vehicle [1] may not have been installed during the manufacturing process..,"

Something is definitely NOT right.

It doesn't help that the local RAM dealer lied straight to my face about the air filter triggering the engine light.

The Y43 recall has absolutely nothing to do with the DPF regeneration process. The sensor that is missing is the particulate matter sensor. It’s sole function is to monitor the exhaust exiting the emissions system to make sure the DPF is capturing soot and has not been compromised (cracked internally and leaking soot into the exhaust stream exiting to atmosphere)

Regarding the air filter, and what your dealer told you; if you had a Fram CA10261 filter installed in your truck, you did indeed have the wrong air filter installed and what they told you was true. You’ll note that in the picture you posted, the biggest difference between the Fram and the Fleetguard is that the Fram has those wide strips of glue running across the base. Those are common amongst aftermarket, lower quality filters. More importantly, those types of filters have shown to cause both turbo underboost codes as well as regeneration frequency codes.

Telling you to replace the Fram with a better quality filter was a recommendation made faithfully and accurately. Rams own engineering has already noted that the potential for issues exists with those filters. See below:

 

[mbarber84]

I snapped a pic of the last time this happened
View attachment 62550

I drove at highway speeds (75+) until completion - (less than 15 miles).

that was actually about two weeks ago - (Time flys)

It just happened again today - at 25% - I drove it until it completed - Less than 10 miles - engine brake on during long steep declines (mountains north of SLC)

How many engine hours surpassed between the last cycle and the one that happened today? If it was 24 hours then the cycle you saw today was driven by the engine hours, not the soot load, and would be perfectly normal.

 

[baker01]

How long have you had the truck? Fuel filters are due for change at 15000 miles or 12 months whichever comes first.

 

[HighlandRidge]

How many engine hours surpassed between the last cycle and the one that happened today? If it was 24 hours then the cycle you saw today was driven by the engine hours, not the soot load, and would be perfectly normal.

The odometer registered 130 miles between the two cycles - Not possible to have 24 engine hours. My commute to work is about 9 miles of highway driving with one stop light between home & work.

The RAM service advisor was absolutely not acting "faithfully or accurately" when he indicated to me the air filter triggered the check engine light. That is absolutely FALSE - a faulty Diesel Particulate filter is the cause of the check engine light. A new fleetguard has been installed and the check engine light remains lit and the regen cycles are excessively frequent.

An auto parts store provided a receipt of the computer code.

 

[HighlandRidge]

How long have you had the truck? Fuel filters are due for change at 15000 miles or 12 months whichever comes first.

I replaced the fuel filters at about 14,000 miles while I was in Florida. If I remember correctly, it took me about 90 minutes. This is irrelevant anyway - an auto parts store provided the computer code of the reason for the check engine light.

 

[mbarber84]

The odometer registered 130 miles between the two cycles - Not possible to have 24 engine hours. My commute to work is about 9 miles of highway driving with one stop light between home & work.

The RAM service advisor was absolutely not acting "faithfully or accurately" when he indicated to me the air filter triggered the check engine light. That is absolutely FALSE - a faulty Diesel Particulate filter is the cause of the check engine light. A new fleetguard has been installed and the check engine light remains lit and the regen cycles are excessively frequent.

An auto parts store provided a receipt of the computer code.

P2459 “Particulate Filter Regeneration Frequency” is often caused by using low quality, aftermarket air filters. The majority of which have glue strips. It’s very likely that they were working through a process of elimination and wanted to eliminate the crappy Fram filter as a potential cause of the issue.

P2459 is one of the more difficult DTC’s to pin down and correct due to the extremely complex nature of the emissions systems, and how those are intertwined with the operation of the engine. The air filter isn’t always the culprit but it is absolutely the first item to check, and eliminate by replacing a junk aftermarket filter with filter of higher quality and known performance.

 

[mbarber84]

I replaced the fuel filters at about 14,000 miles while I was in Florida. If I remember correctly, it took me about 90 minutes. This is irrelevant anyway - an auto parts store provided the computer code of the reason for the check engine light.

P2459 does not necessarily indicate that your DPF is faulty.

A printout from a code scan at your local chain retailer auto parts store does not constitute definitive proof that you have a faulty DPF.

P2459 indicates that your emissions system has been running regeneration cycles too closely together. There are a multitude of pathways by which you can find yourself with a P2459 code. In order to properly rectify the problem, there is a framework for diagnosing it and it starts by getting everything back to stock including the engine air filter. Any failure on the engine that would cause it to run less efficiently can cause the DPF to fill more quickly than normal. At the same time, if the fuel or air handling systems are not functioning as needed, neither the engine nor the emissions system will work properly which compounds the problem. This is a brief excerpt from the diagnostic procedure, which is quite lengthy. The items below are only the main heading for each area that has to be checked in detail, and some areas aren’t even listed.

 

[PRS]

The odometer registered 130 miles between the two cycles - Not possible to have 24 engine hours. My commute to work is about 9 miles of highway driving with one stop light between home & work.

The RAM service advisor was absolutely not acting "faithfully or accurately" when he indicated to me the air filter triggered the check engine light. That is absolutely FALSE - a faulty Diesel Particulate filter is the cause of the check engine light. A new fleetguard has been installed and the check engine light remains lit and the regen cycles are excessively frequent.

An auto parts store provided a receipt of the computer code.

You said the air filter had been replaced previously, with a Fram filter.
An incorrect p/n filter or an after market filter are known to cause the “too frequent regeneration” DTC, so the advisor was not totally off the mark.
Yes the DTC references the DPF, but only as a regeneration function. The DPF filling with soot, causing a regeneration, is likely caused by something other than the DPF itself.
The operation with the Fram filter installed has likely filled the DPF with soot and will take numerous regenerations or a nice long trip pulling that 5th wheel with the correct filter installed and lots of passive regeneration helping to clean out the soot build up.

 

[mbarber84]

You said the air filter had been replaced previously, with a Fram filter.
An incorrect p/n filter or an after market filter are known to cause the “too frequent regeneration” DTC, so the advisor was not totally off the mark.
Yes the DTC references the DPF, but only as a regeneration function. The DPF filling with soot, causing a regeneration, is likely caused by something other than the DPF itself.
The operation with the Fram filter installed has likely filled the DPF with soot and will take numerous regenerations or a nice long trip pulling that 5th wheel with the correct filter installed and lots of passive regeneration helping to clean out the soot build up.

BINGO!

The wrong air filter is where this issue started. Might not end there, as there can be other faults as well. Best course of action is to get everything back to square one, including using the proper air filter. Then inspect all of the items on the list I posted above. Boost leaks, exhaust leaks, etc. Crappy aftermarket fuel filters can contribute to this issue as well. Once all the extraneous variables are secured, you perform a stationary desoot and check the pressure values when the DPF is theoretically “empty”. Then take the truck on extending drive cycles and see how it’s building soot. How many grams per mile etc.

Excessive short-tripping the truck (9 mile commute to work), running an inferior engine air filter (Fram), and not regularly monitoring your DPF soot-loading and regenerating cycles are contributing factors to a P2459 scenario. You can’t expect the truck to adequately handle soot through passive regeneration when the emissions system is barely even warming up. In 9 miles of operation it’s barely getting to operating temperature. Active regeneration cycles will be the only way the system handles trapped soot, and it’ll need them often in order to keep it cleaned out. Trust me, I live this daily. My truck takes me to work and back every day. It’s a 15 minute drive all highway. When I tow more often, I’m able to achieve 600-1000 miles between regeneration cycles. But when I’m only commuting back and forth to work, my intervals increase and I’m routinely between 200-400 miles between the cycles. And that’s in a truck that’s running top-tier fluids and filters, not the crummy stuff you get from Advanced Auto or Amazon.

Not saying there isn’t a chance you may have some other mechanical or electrical issues related to the P2459, but operator habits and drive cycles have a hand to play in this issue as well.

 

[baker01]

I replaced the fuel filters at about 14,000 miles while I was in Florida. If I remember correctly, it took me about 90 minutes. This is irrelevant anyway - an auto parts store provided the computer code of the reason for the check engine light.

"The RAM dealer lied directly to my face - tried to sell me $400 worth of air + fuel filters I do NOT need. "
I get you are angry about your truck not working correctly. I would be also. As mbarber84 stated, the dealer was just going through a process of elimination which includes the air filter. I agree the fuel filters are irrelevant as far as your DPF code. Just saying if the dealer did not know you changed the fuel filters, then they would have thought they were due and may not have been trying to sell you stuff you did not need.

 

[mbarber84]

"The RAM dealer lied directly to my face - tried to sell me $400 worth of air + fuel filters I do NOT need. "
I get you are angry about your truck not working correctly. I would be also. As mbarber84 stated, the dealer was just going through a process of elimination which includes the air filter. I agree the fuel filters are irrelevant as far as your DPF code. Just saying if the dealer did not know you changed the fuel filters, then they would have thought they were due and may not have been trying to sell you stuff you did not need.

Don’t count the fuel filters out.
Remember that if the fuel delivery is not at peak performance, the truck can run more inefficiently. Tie that with an air filter that’s choking the truck down or causing an air / fuel ratio imbalance and the result is more soot passed downstream to the DPF.

It’s also important to remember that fuel delivery issues can reduce the effectiveness of the after treatment hydrocarbon injection cycles. The engine’s own fuel injectors are used to inject fuel into the exhaust stream on the exhaust stroke when an active regen cycle is running. That fuel is used to temporarily increase the DPF temperature to around 1,000°F. If fuel delivery is not sufficient or somehow hampered, you may not get as effective a regeneration cycle…which means more regens also.

This is why I’ve repeatedly said this P2459 code is an absolute headache to try and diagnose. There are a lot of avenues for failure.