Carli Pintop with Thuren Install, and still rides harsh?

[Dave88LX]

Tire pressure and chalk have already been mentioned, but I'll post this article from Carli as well that dives a bit deeper:

Tires and Wheels: How Do They Affect My Ride?

If you're looking for the cliff notes: 17"/18" wheels, 35"-37" tires and inflate them in accordance to THEIR load curve (40-45PSI Front, 35-40PSI Rear), not the factory tire's load curve to which most factory TPMS Systems are set. If you're going to run 20" wheels, stick to 37" MT tires as...

carlisuspension.com

Everyone has hit on some good answers.

I will add that I opted for the Backcountry kit as well for my 3500 because my truck is pretty much all pavement, and that kit would give me the better ride vs. a Pintop, and don't need the overkill factor of a Dominator system. Plus, King shocks in the Northeast, and all the corrosion that goes along with them if I don't need them.

For the Torsion Swaybar -- does that do a lot in regular driving, or more the off-camber entrances/exits to gas stations and the like, where it feels like your head is going to bounce off the side window?

I have it in my truck, but I did the whole suspension at once so I don't 100% know what contributes to what exactly.

 

[werard]

Thuren specifically states to use their shocks with thier springs.

Our soft-rate coil springs are the perfect blend of a soft ride, high performance, and great control. Starting in 2013 on the radius arm platform, Ram decided to design the front coil spring mounts at an angle. This presents some issues with the coils design, as the coil has a very hard time standing straight without a massive bend in the coil, when loaded. This might be why the OEM coils are so stiff. Stiff coils will bend less. Regardless, with some tricky engineering we were able to combat the angled seats, and design a coil which stands very straight installed.

These front coils fit the normal 4x4 2500/3500 trucks, and also fit most 2014+ 2-Wheel Drive 2500/3500 trucks with the straight front axle. We make a 2 Wheel Drive specific front trackbar, but our shocks needed for these coils all fit the 2 Wheel Drive also. It is a good idea to email us pictures of your 2 Wheel Drive suspension to verify fit, pre-purchase.

• 100% made in the USA.
• If not purchasing our shocks to work with these coils, please contact us to make sure your shocks will function properly. Even aftermarket shocks by application for a leveling kit with stock coils, will not work properly, as they are much too short extended and the damping rates are way off.
• The 3500 Rams come 1/2" taller than the 2500 from the factory, which is the reason for the height difference.
• Each 5160 alloy spring is fully CNC computer formed and tested, using the most high-tech manufacturing processes.
• 26-30% softer than the ultra-stiff OEM coils, while designed to still use factory compression/bump travel. No bump drops needed.
• No radius arm drops required, being that these coils are designed around the OEM bump travel constraints.
• Proven Linear rate design, just like all of our other coils, to prevent inconsistent feel through the range of motion.

 

[Wilder]

Thuren specifically states to use their shocks with thier springs.

Our soft-rate coil springs are the perfect blend of a soft ride, high performance, and great control. Starting in 2013 on the radius arm platform, Ram decided to design the front coil spring mounts at an angle. This presents some issues with the coils design, as the coil has a very hard time standing straight without a massive bend in the coil, when loaded. This might be why the OEM coils are so stiff. Stiff coils will bend less. Regardless, with some tricky engineering we were able to combat the angled seats, and design a coil which stands very straight installed.

These front coils fit the normal 4x4 2500/3500 trucks, and also fit most 2014+ 2-Wheel Drive 2500/3500 trucks with the straight front axle. We make a 2 Wheel Drive specific front trackbar, but our shocks needed for these coils all fit the 2 Wheel Drive also. It is a good idea to email us pictures of your 2 Wheel Drive suspension to verify fit, pre-purchase.

• 100% made in the USA.
• If not purchasing our shocks to work with these coils, please contact us to make sure your shocks will function properly. Even aftermarket shocks by application for a leveling kit with stock coils, will not work properly, as they are much too short extended and the damping rates are way off.
• The 3500 Rams come 1/2" taller than the 2500 from the factory, which is the reason for the height difference.
• Each 5160 alloy spring is fully CNC computer formed and tested, using the most high-tech manufacturing processes.
• 26-30% softer than the ultra-stiff OEM coils, while designed to still use factory compression/bump travel. No bump drops needed.
• No radius arm drops required, being that these coils are designed around the OEM bump travel constraints.
• Proven Linear rate design, just like all of our other coils, to prevent inconsistent feel through the range of motion.

But I have been unable to find a good answer as to why...

Both brands state their spring rate is approx 25% softer than stock, both have about the same travel amount etc. Obviously they both want you to buy their full system, but I am yet to hear the real engineering reason why you can't mix and match.

 

[werard]

Thuren states it's due to their shocks having valving for their springs spring rate .

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Honestly I have trouble believing the OP has a “harsh” ride on thuren and carli springs considering my truck on stock suspension with fox 2.0s rides great. Heck, the stock ride was pretty good with the junky stock shocks.

It sounds like a princess and the pea story to me

But I have been unable to find a good answer as to why...

Both brands state their spring rate is approx 25% softer than stock, both have about the same travel amount etc. Obviously they both want you to buy their full system, but I am yet to hear the real engineering reason why you can't mix and match.

If you think this is the problem then see if you can get them to tell you what valving they use. Then figure out what valving your shocks have. Then swap out valve shim stacks if needed.

 

[loveracing1988]

For the Torsion Swaybar -- does that do a lot in regular driving, or more the off-camber entrances/exits to gas stations and the like, where it feels like your head is going to bounce off the side window?

I have it in my truck, but I did the whole suspension at once so I don't 100% know what contributes to what exactly.

I didn't notice any difference in everyday driving, its all the off camber stuff and especially slow off road.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

There is a lot that goes into shock tuning. And it's also subjective to the guy driving and tuning the shock. I'm sure they are trying for the best all around shock. Hard to do a one size fits all.
Maybe find a good shock tuner in your area and have them ride with you and make adjustments based on what you like/dont like with YOUR driving style.

Shock tuning involves shock body size, piston size, number and size of compression holes in the piston, same for rebound, dia, thickness, number of disc and how they are stacked for the valving on both compression side and rebound side, shock oil weight, and even the PSI of the nitrogen in the reservoir.

 

[ABP]

I have a 2019 2500 Limited with full Carli 3.25" lift and Kings Pintops. I have the Carli Radius Arms, Carli sway bar and upper/lower steering stabilizers. Mine also rides like crap on the small bumps but eats up the big ones like they are nothing. I have had it at two different shops to figure it out with no luck. On a rough road with small bumps my front end feels like it is jumping around. Going to take it to the shop that built my Raptor and give them a shot. I am seriously wondering if my Kings do not have the proper nitrogen in them and the original shop never checked.

 

[Gibby56]

I have a 2019 2500 Limited with full Carli 3.25" lift and Kings Pintops. I have the Carli Radius Arms, Carli sway bar and upper/lower steering stabilizers. Mine also rides like crap on the small bumps but eats up the big ones like they are nothing. I have had it at two different shops to figure it out with no luck. On a rough road with small bumps my front end feels like it is jumping around. Going to take it to the shop that built my Raptor and give them a shot. I am seriously wondering if my Kings do not have the proper nitrogen in them and the original shop never checked.

Sounds like caster is off to me.

 

[Trail_Wagon]

Sounds like caster is off to me.

Caster is causing harshness over small bumps?


?

 

[Gibby56]

Caster is causing harshness over small bumps?


?

If the caster is off side to side on a radius arm truck (assuming factory HD radius arm) it would put the axle in torsion.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

*cross caster

 

[Gibby56]

^ Yeah, that's the technical term I was looking for. Thanks dude!

 

[joelp]

buying/running a shock/spring mismatch is crazy for what these set ups cost.

 

[Wilder]

buying/running a shock/spring mismatch is crazy for what these set ups cost.

The spring rates couldn't possibly be *that* far off between the 2 brands... They're holding the same vehicle after all.

If this was the case, slight changes in weight and loading would more significantly degrade the handling than they do.

What fixed the handling for me was installing the Thuren sway bar. Such a big difference that thing makes

 

[joelp]

The spring rates couldn't possibly be *that* far off between the 2 brands... They're holding the same vehicle after all.

If this was the case, slight changes in weight and loading would more significantly degrade the handling than they do.

What fixed the handling for me was installing the Thuren sway bar. Such a big difference that thing makes

bout to do a sway bar on mine. was super stoked on the thuren/thuren i did initially, so if the sway bar makes that much of a difference so much the better.

not trying to bust your balls dude. its just $4k seems like a lotta cash for me on aftermarket car parts and if those dudes that make the stuff pay their mortgages by designing/building suspension systems, i'm not gonna second guess them and mix and match. that said, the value of $4k is different for everyone and my knowledge of how suspension systems work isn't extensive. maybe i give those guys way to much credit for tuning a system?

either way, you're stoked on the ride now so good enough. enjoy your rig!

 

[Wilder]

bout to do a sway bar on mine. was super stoked on the thuren/thuren i did initially, so if the sway bar makes that much of a difference so much the better.

not trying to bust your balls dude. its just $4k seems like a lotta cash for me on aftermarket car parts and if those dudes that make the stuff pay their mortgages by designing/building suspension systems, i'm not gonna second guess them and mix and match. that said, the value of $4k is different for everyone and my knowledge of how suspension systems work isn't extensive. maybe i give those guys way to much credit for tuning a system?

either way, you're stoked on the ride now so good enough. enjoy your rig!

In hindsight I think I would have gone all Thuren, their customer service is amazing. The problem with Thuren is they are struggling with supply chain on the shocks pretty badly (seems like Carli is struggling on supply chain for everything BUT King shocks lol)

 

[Dmacmilitant]

Called CJC to ask them about this, they said that the system needs to break in. I'll be putting another 200mi on it tomorrow, much of which will be rough roads, will see if there's any improvement

Ah, the ‘ol “it needs some time to break in” line. CLASSIC and not something I would expect from CJC. 4 Wheel Parts? Definitely. But not the CJC guys. Too bad.

 

[joelp]

Ah, the ‘ol “it needs some time to break in” line. CLASSIC and not something I would expect from CJC. 4 Wheel Parts? Definitely. But not the CJC guys. Too bad.

my buddy with a taco just went from a few years of crap ride that never 'broke in' on a full icon package to a 2.5 reservoir fox set up from accu tune and it felt like a brand new AWESOME truck after 20 highway miles home when we went and hit some big bumps and dips. dmac is spot on. if it's not right from jump street it aint gonna get much more right. my buddy's truck went from meh to amazing in four hours. break in may be a thing, but it's not much of a thing.

 

[Brewbud]

I have a 2019 2500 Limited with full Carli 3.25" lift and Kings Pintops. I have the Carli Radius Arms, Carli sway bar and upper/lower steering stabilizers. Mine also rides like crap on the small bumps but eats up the big ones like they are nothing. I have had it at two different shops to figure it out with no luck. On a rough road with small bumps my front end feels like it is jumping around. Going to take it to the shop that built my Raptor and give them a shot. I am seriously wondering if my Kings do not have the proper nitrogen in them and the original shop never checked.

You didn't mention tire size, psi, and wheel size. Small bump compliance is really affected by all three. Having said that, the Carli King 2.5s are set up for the big hits and run rougher on the street than their Backcountry or Commuter systems. Stepping up to the King 3.0s can get you both big hits and good road ride.